Shepherding & Charismatic Movements
Comments from Readers
are just some of the comments received regarding tongues &
manifestations and their views or experiences with the various
topics discussed in our articles.
I stumbled across your Web
site today and just wanted you to know how much I appreciate
For about 11 years I
attended an Assemblies of God church. I served on the
worship team (singing and playing guitar for services and
concerts), I was a church board member, secretary, assistant
to the youth leader and Missionette leader. I was very much
The last couple years I
was there, however, I became very depressed. I didn't
know why exactly...just chalked it up to me needing to get
closer to the Lord and "filled with the spirit"
and speak in tongues as the AG churches so enthusiastically
teach. It took me nearly committing suicide one day for me
to actually hear something God was trying to tell me. After
some tragic circumstances, I became angry at God and accused
Him of lying about promising this and that as well as withholding
tongues, etc.....I was so depressed that I nearly drove
into oncoming traffic in an effort to kill myself. After
all, If I thought God had lied to me, what point did I have
Above all my anger,
however, I heard a tugging in my heart asking "was it
me that lied to you or was it man?" That statement
shocked me. I thought about that statement for several days.
Could the people I had come to love and trust as strong men
and women of God have been teaching lies? I
knew my Bible well mind you, or at least so I thought. I'd
read it cover to cover and even preached many times!
Could those church folks be misled in their beliefs? Of
course I knew God NEVER lies, but it took a few days of
chewing on it all to make me realize I needed to see if I
was believing God's word or the AG doctrine I'd been fed for
a decade. As I began reading God's word, I started noticing
scripture that just didn't jive with what the AG church
taught me to believe. It was like someone turning on a light
switch! It was liberating! I began to see that all this
time I was believing man's lies. No wonder I was always
During that time I prayed
for God to continue leading me to the truth in His word, and
He was quick to answer that prayer. He led me through
scripture of course, and to a number of books and articles
and Web sites that shed light on what had happened to me. I
also found hundreds of other people who have gone
through things similar to me.
Not long after that I left
my AG church. It was extremely difficult because I had
been so close to my church family for so long. It was a
small church, so we were all very much apart of each other's
lives. (I must add that I've only heard from three
of them after leaving, and after two years away, only one
person calls and that's rare. The family I loved so much
shut me out.)
The straw that broke the
camel's back for me and got me to leave was when during a
service they took a special offering for a guest speaker. They
told us all that if we didn't give, and do it in front of
the whole church to see, we were in dangerous disobedience
to God and would be judged for it. Pretty sickening to hear
such a thing coming from the pulpit huh?
It'll be two years since I
left that church, and I have to say leaving was a huge
relief, but also a lonely journey for me. I have yet to find
a church I can call "my home." Not to mention I
have a hard time trusting people in the church.
hope this all made sense. I'm just trying to cram several
years of my life into a few paragraphs! I'm thankful the
Lord brought me out of all that and also thankful that I
have never spoken in tongues. God in His mercy kept me from
it, and I have grown to know why in recent times.
Anywho. You have a
wonderful Web site Keep up the good work. It's an
encouragement to those of us out here who have been terribly
hurt in a place where we thought we were safe.
you for writing Vicky, and thanks also for your words of
Please feel free to use my letter/testimony if you like. I
also don’t mind having my name on it. I’ve got nothing
to be afraid or ashamed of :-) If I can help and encourage
someone else going through this, then praise the Lord!
never realized the full meaning of “knowing them by their
fruit,” until recent years. At my old church we had
several people suddenly leave the congregation, and little
to no attempts were made on the part of other church members
to keep in touch with them as brothers and sisters in the
Lord. It bothered me terribly and I always did what I could
to maintain contact with those people. I should’ve known
that when I left, I would be treated in like manner. The
offering incident is just one of many things that went on in
my old church. I should’ve listened a lot earlier than I
did. I regret so much wasted time, but perhaps I went
through it for some reason...perhaps to get me to a point
where I hunger only for truth...and that truth can only be
found in God’s word.
was a huge thing at my AG church. Being committed to God
meant being in church EVERY time the church doors were open.
I recall an incident where I was sick with bronchitis and
missed church only to be scolded by a fellow church member.
He told me if I really had faith in God, I would’ve been
healed of my illness and been in church that night. I blew
that comment off
because it obviously was a bunch of garbage. It stung
another time after my mom had surgery, I missed church for a
week because she needed my round the clock care. That really
upset church folks. Where was my commitment to the things of
the Lord? I was pretty mad at those comments and told them
“hey...God’s word says to honor my father and mother ...
I’m doing just that by caring for her in a time of need.”
must add that forsaking family ties was pretty much expected
by them. After all, God was supposed to be first, and along
with that, church. They forgot that loving and serving God
means loving and serving those around you...not just serving
your church and the people in it. In the months before I
left that church, I began to start saying no to them a lot
more...and suffered for it. They began leaving me out of
was the church guitarist, and slowly I was being moved out
of that position and
replaced. No one bothered to tell me. It hurt terribly, but
I was also relieved because it made it easier for me to
leave them altogether.
for speaking in tongues: for all their worship of that “outward
sign of the holy spirit baptism” (as they put it) I never
saw any one of them act any differently than any other
Christian. I did not see any difference in boldness or any
of them leading any less of a sinless life than those of us
who haven’t spoken in tongues.
note on that: If you didn’t speak in tongues, you were
made to feel like a second class Christian. You didn’t
often hear that in so many words, but it was strongly
implied. They constantly coerced people to receive the holy
spirit and speak in tongues, and if you didn’t, then you
were being rebellious (a sin akin to witchcraft) or had some
secret sin in your life.
I remember beating myself up endlessly trying to figure out
what was wrong with me. Then there’s the dangerous
teachings on healing they have. If you prayed for healing,
God would heal you. If he didn’t, it was because you had
sin in your life, did not have faith, or were rebelling
against the healing. I was born with a birth defect called
Spina Bifida, so during the time I was there, they endlessly
prayed for me. They took me to Benny Hinn crusades too! I
would come away not miraculously healed of course.
Afterwards, I would
always hear comments like “when are you going to believe
God for your healing?” and “you must not want God to
heal yyou or you’d just receive it,” or
“You must be sinning.” No one bothered to realize that
God is sovereign.
HIS WILL not ours to heal. I know God will heal my body one
day, but I may have to wait till heaven till I see that. In
the meantime I am bubbling with joy in serving God just as I
am, with or without a perfectly healed body. :) A statement
like that, however, would come across to them as a statement
of having no faith in God. Saying things like “if it’s
God’s will,” was also not allowed -- that was saying you
didn’t have faith that God wanted to do what you asked.
How dare I not believe God could zap me to perfect
health instantly. That’s what nearly drove me to suicide
...thinking something must be so horribly wrong with me that
God refused to instantly heal me.
AG church likes ordering God around rather than accepting
His sovereignty. That’s a scary thing. Isn’t it much
like putting yourself above God? AG people will deny they do
that, but if they take the time to listen to what they pray,
what the sing in choruses (yup even many of their choruses
have false doctrine in them) and what they hear
preached...and compare that to what God’s word really
says...they would see how unscriptural it all is.
and the whole tongues thing really hurt me a great deal and
it’s taken some time to heal those wounds. I should say
the Lord has been helping them heal through the truth in His
I left that church, I asked God for forgiveness for
believing the lies and not finding the truth in the Bible a
you for listening and I do pray that you’ll keep up all
the good work. People need to hear and be aware that there’s
so much deception going on behind church doors. Christians
need to wake up, smell the coffee and get reading the Bible.
We should not be quick to accept what we hear from men.
"I dunno if you get
MSNBC up there, but I'm watching this show about
televangelists who claim to be exorcising demons. Public
exorcism seems to be a thriving trade. I don't think I ever
watch any of the charismatics you've written about, though I
watch Joyce Meyer, who was mentioned by one of the readers,
and I've never heard her encourage people to get "the
gift of tongues", though she's said something about
tongues (not calling them a "gift") and
unfortunately I think she believes in that four-temperaments
thing. As for the people on this show: The one they are
showing now is named something Brown or Browne, and the
other one is Bob Larson, of whom you have probably heard
(who hasn't?). Of course, one of the first things one of
them said at the beginning of the show was "We are
charismatic, we believe in tongues", which I kind of
expected. Some of the stuff the "exorcists" do
looks more like it would transfer demons to the person being
exorcised, or at least attract demons to them, rather than
cast them out. I know I've had a Norse Pagan with a cat
familiar in an occult shop suddenly grasp my hands for no
reason and transfer cat demons to me (this was when I was
practicing Asatru and had a wolf familiar). I know demons
were transferred to me because A. she sounded like something
else was talking through her when she grasped my hands and
called me sister, and B. I could feel the power slamming
into my body, and C. I had visions and nightmares of cats,
so she was apparently correct about the "genus" of
her familiar. The tingling, electric, fuzzy-headed feeling,
which is the same feeling I would get when going into occult
stores or after taking hallucinogenic plants, hung around
until I asked God to get rid of it. I don't know why He did,
or if it was really He who did, since I didn't get out of
Paganism for maybe a year after that (when the insomnia and
demonic visitations and hallucinations started and I
couldn't stand to go into my bedroom at night).
Another thing the
charismatic exorcists reminded me of, was those new age
seminars I was always going to with my dad in the 80s. These
folks were supposed to teach people "self-help"
but they were abusive thugs who would mock and demean the
participants when (not if) they were frightened by some of
the new age rituals and the "energies" conjured
up. Neither of the charismatics bullied the people, but
either Bob Larson or the other guy actually said they wanted
the demons to manifest and that they were trying to call
them up, not verbatim, but that was what they meant, and
"talk to" the demons. Some of the victims
certainly seemed to be manifesting *something* but the
manifestation could as easily have been conjured by the
"exorcist" through their rituals, or drawn to the
person by hypnotic suggestion, as it could have been present
in the person prior to the exorcism. I'd be hesitant to seek
any sort of spiritual aid from somebody who said they wanted
demons to manifest in the person they were claiming to cure.
... There's one on
right after it about psychics ... One thing the psychics,
the charismatic exorcists and the new age seminar people
have in common is that they put the people they work with
into an altered state. Another common bond is that they are
making gazillions of dollars from their victims. I used to
want to be a professional psychic because I thought I could
get rich and I had real clairvoyant and clairaudient
"powers". The testimony from the former psychic on
your site is almost of clone of my life. I used to
"hear" the same sound she heard of mocking,
The temperament stuff is
connected to astrology and the zodiac, and the "four
elements" (I never delved into astrology, probably
because I like astronomy, which negates astrology, of course)
so it probably counts as divination.
I had an experience with
somebody whom I think was connected with Vineyard and we both
thought it was "Christian", but now I don't think it
was any more than a psychic reading even if the reader didn't
know any better. She *could* read my mind and knew that I was
drawing black-and-white sketches of demons and would keep
erasing and starting over on them, etc, etc. It shook me up at
the time. It doesn't now because nothing occultists do really
of the key hallmarks of the luciferic initiation that is
setting in on the world and which will prepare the world to
worship the image of the beast is the resignation to altered
states of consciousness. The drug culture made major inroads
to American society to accept doctrines of demons,
phenomenal manifestations and their leadings. But as all of
the eastern mystics of the seventies pointed out, drugs are
only the entry. Once past the initial portal, the mind,
through the imagination and the will, become the vehicle for
ecstatic experiences put people into the SAME altered state
as shamans get into, in order to receive
"visions," "higher knowledge,"
"prophecies" and such from the demonic realm. This
is kid's play for fallen angels.
have a "Christian" church that is not only
suggestable to such leading, but trained in its use. The
occult calls trained mind travellers like this
are the ones who will take their "training" to the
mainstream at large to accept the serpent's fruit as one in
the same with the gospel. Moon's job is to integrate the
right-wing branch of evangelicalism into the world religion.
They are following him like the pied piper. Little surprise
that the leaven takes the "church" by storm.
for all your research."
"...I thought you'd
find it interesting that shortly after I was born again a
friend of mine who'd become a Christian a year previously
told me she'd been blessed with the "second
baptism". She'd been home alone praying, and suddenly
found herself ecstatically speaking in tongues, and had
continued the tongues as her "private prayer
language" after that initial experience. Within 6
months she had left her husband and moved in with the
neo-pagan man next door, while still thinking of herself as
a "back-slidden Christian". I myself was seeking
the "second baptism", but was really thrown for a
loop after hearing her report and seeing her actions. I had
wanted the "second baptism" in order to be closer
to God and for the power to serve, but couldn't help but
notice that it certainly hadn't worked that way with her!
I still sought after it for a few years, but, praise
God! was protected from the "other spirits" that
were operating in the various groups I went
afraid I'm with you on the tongues issue. That is after
years of believing there was a second baptism (there is not)
and seeking tongues for some time. Since I was determined in
my delusion and filled with pride, (The Lord saith: "I
will choose their delusions") I did receive a phrase
(to set me apart as better than) which I was afraid to say
because it sounded in it's meaning like "Father Satan
Yahweh". If that is the refreshing but I would not, then
thank you I don't want any...
do believe that there are some who honestly want the so-called
"deeper life" who go after this nonsense but that
there are those who like myself are filled with pride and want
to be better than. Unfortunately it was only after being
born again awhile that The Lord began to reveal to me that my
heart was deceitful above all things and desperately wicked,
who could know it. That old man is ugly. No wonder we must
forsake all of it to be his disciple. Daily, hourly.
regards to a heavenly language, an angel's tongue, if you
will: there isn't any for humans. Why? Because there is
only one verse in the entire bible alluding to such a thing
and we are commanded to have two or three witnesses to make a
doctrine. There is one verse to allow the deception or try the
wrote an article on Tongues that was so good. I sat with it
one whole day and looked up every verse. It took hours.
By the end of it I realized I had been misreading 1
Corinthians 12-14 for years. The carnal Corinthian
church had allowed the occultic tongues of their town to
infiltrate their local assembly and they were proud of it.
What is amazing is how God through Paul chose to deal with it.
The same carnal mind today will miss the point and have
classes on which gifts do you have etc....I do ask the
Lord's mercy on us all...."
you for your response. I would love to share what has happened
in my life, that it may bring hope to someone and be an
encouragement. It's kind of long, but I'll try to
the first 38 years of my life, I lived an ungodly life and was
brought up in an ungodly home. My parents did not know
how to show agape love and felt that they were
"RULERS" over their kids, that we were simply things
to be controlled.
my house, you didn't feel or cry, or you got something to cry
about. I felt from a very young age that I didn't belong
there. Anyway, I will continue to honor my parents and
pray for their salvation. My life was one continual search for
what I knew was missing. Now that I look back, God was calling
my name, pulling on my heart, but I never even knew there was
a God or knew anything about my spiritual condition. But
He never left me. He stayed with me through alcoholism,
divorce, drug addiction, and of course my character left a lot
to be desired. It is called dead man walking. But
deep inside I knew if I hung on, that I would not die before I
knew what I was so desperately lacking. Then one day(and
I have left a lot out for space sake) I was in a deep
depression and thought I was losing my mind. I told this
to a woman that I knew, but not very
I was led by that woman to a charismatic AOG church. At
first I didn't understand anything and just went along with
what everyone else did. But as time went by, something
in me was very distressed. There was a heaviness over
me, and I couldn't help but wonder why things in the church
weren't much different from the world. I lived in the
world for too long, and I could see a lot of it in the
church. There was competition, gossip, everything was
focused on prospering and speaking in tongues. Then it
became a "look how big were getting and how lovely our
building is and on and on... The simplicity of Christ and the
Glory of the Gospel
seemed to disappear and instead it was all about "look at
all we do."
always tried to hide my sin and keep it covered. Knowing
all along that my insides were so ugly and dirty. I was
freed and completely delivered when I heard the Gospel!
Jesus exposed my darkness so that I could come into the light.
first Scripture that I heard and embraced was Psalm 103:12
"As far as the East is from the West so far hath He
removed our transgressions from us" I knew I was
forgiven and that Jesus was indeed alive!
Vicky, there is so much to say, but the most important thing
is that my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ knows a pure true
heart that seeks only to serve and love Him. That is
what I seek in my life. Nothing else. He will bring
anything else that He has for me and I can only praise His
name forever for showing me the way out of the deception. I
thank Him for discernment and wisdom that can come only from
God Almighty alone. Jesus is my life and my love.
now I'm looking for a church, but I have a very small group of
born again believers and we meet often and share with each
other. I know that the Lord will lead me where I'm to go."
would like to say that I was in the charismania movement for a
few years. I went
to a Joyce Meyer meeting and I had been pressured with the
tongues thing for
a while and I went up to get the "gift." I felt
horrible (that should have been
my first clue). Nothing happened until a few weeks later in my
church on a Sunday
and I just started speaking in tongues. I did tongues A LOT.
Then I got another
"language" (sounding like some American Indian
sort). The first "language"
I received was some sort of Asian sounding thing. When I look
interesting that both those languages are of mainly people who
are practicing false
religions. I also had all kinds of other supernatural
experiences. I saw demons
and "felt" things. It was crazy.
I can relate to the
lady who wrote about
her friend. I had to admit that so much of all that stuff is
just pride and
I had to repent to God of my pride and my evil heart. But God
showed me in such
a loving and gentle way what it was that was really happening
and I will be forever
grateful to Him. I look back and it's so easy to see how
prideful the people
really were all in the name of acting humble and thinking they
were so spiritual.
It's sad, but it will get worse the closer we get to time
I pray for them.
I was so upset for a long time, I just wanted
to pull them
out. But, then God showed me that if you really want the truth,
He is happy
to give it to you, but if you don't want it, He won't force it
there are lots of people who like getting off on the
"experience" instead of dying
DAILY to self and working out your salvation with fear and
It's a slow, slow process that God works in us and I can see now
charismania group just wants the quick fix and a Santa Clause
for a god.
my church just got more and more out of control and I just kept
God to show me the truth no matter what. Something just
constantly kept bothering
Well, God sent me a friend on the internet of all places,
but he was
a Godly man and him and his wife just steadily sent me to the
scriptures and would
tell me I was interpreting things wrong. I studied and studied
and then one Sunday I just knew I had to run out of my church
My good friend and evangelist told me that Satan had taken over
It's so sad. I had to give up all my friends, too, because we
totally by doctrine, but nevertheless I had to go.
repented of all the "witchcraft" I had been involved
in a "Baptist" church.
I felt such peace. I cried and cried. It has been a long haul
that church two years ago, but it has been a steady uphill
growth. I just
thank God he is showing me the way. I thank you for your
website. It is desperately
needed in this time of chaos and heresy and apostasy. I still haven't
found a healthy well-balanced church, but God will place me in
one when He
sees fit...I am starting to find some sort of balance hopefully.
I could ramble on and on, but thank you so much for your work.
dialogue with a former charismatic, dealing with tongues, see:
Memorable Correspondences >
Experience of tongues
Copyright . All articles are the sole property of SeekGod.ca and Vicky Dillen. All Scripture King James Version unless otherwise stated.
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