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Hello! My name is Anders Branderud, and I am from Sweden.

This post will research about the “historical Jesus” and the origin of Christianity. Before answering these question it is important to give an introduction to the le-havdil (to differentiate) first century Jew Ribi Yehoshua.

Year 7 B.C.E Ribi Yehoshua were born in Bethlehem. His father name was Yoseif and his mothers name was Miriam. His parents were practising Jews.

Historical scholarship (for example Prof. James H. Charlesworth) implies that he practised what corresponds to today’s Orthodox Judaism all his life. His followers were called Netzarim (Hellenized to "Nazarenes") – that is Hebrew [it means offshoot (especially from the root or trunk of an olive tree)] and is a name in the Jewish Bible that is used for Mashiakh (Messiah).

During the first century those who practised Judaism were very devoted their religion. Just like King David and all other Jews throughout history they practised Torah (Instruction) – the Instructions of the Creator – with joy! The most prominent university professors in this field Prof. Elisha Qimron , author of the most authoritative treatise on 4Q MMT, demonstrates that all three of the major sects of first century Judaism followed both written and oral Torah.

The research of world-recognized authorities in this area implies that Ribi Yehoshua was a Pharisee (a Torah-practising Jewish group - who according to 4Q MMT practised both written and oral Torah). As the earliest church historians, most eminent modern university historians, our web site (deleted by Vic) and our Khavruta (Distance Learning) texts confirm, the original teachings of Ribi Yehoshua were not only accepted by most of the Pharisaic Jewish community, he had hoards of Jewish students.

Ribi Yehoshua took care of the sick and he and his followers prayed in what corresponds to today’s Orthodox synagogues. The genealogically non-priest, Hellenist “Wicked Priest” Temple-Sadducees felt that their power was threaten by Ribi Yehoshua. They decided to get him crucified by the Romans. The Romans convicted and crucified Ribi Yehoshua year 30 C.E.

Ribi Yehoshua’s followers Netzarim were expelled from Jerusalem 135 C.E: together with all other Jews. The first Christian bishop Markos replaced the fifteenth leader of Netzarim. This Christian bishop didn’t have permission to do this. What the Paul the apostate and later the founder of Christianity did was to take some concepts that Ribi Yehoshua had taught; they distorted the concepts and included them in the religion which they practiced – Hellenism – the religion of the Greeks. (Sources: See Ecclesiastical History (EH IV.v.1-4; EH V.xii.1) )

Anyone educated in this field knows that the only sect of Judaism that had rabbis was the Pharisees. Oxford Historian James Parkes, Bellarmino Bagatti, Prof. Barrie Wilson, Prof James H. Charlesworth; all world-recognized authorities in this area leave no doubt that Ribi Yehoshua was a Pharisee, of the school of Hileil - who was also Pharisee. There is no serious dispute about that among scholars in the field. Ribi Yehoshua taught in "synagogues"; which were a strictly Pharisee institution.

The historical Jesus is an oxymoron. The historical person was named le-havdil (to differentiate) Ribi Yehoshua. This is not the same person as the Christian Jesus. Logic dictates a separation between two polar opposites: pro-Torah and pro-Halakhah Ribi Yehoshua and le-havdil and anti-Torah Jesus.

If you want to learn about the Historical Ribi Yehoshua, whose followers Orthodox Jews can live with (witness the Netzarim Jews in Raanana, Israel, members in good standing in an Orthodox synagogue), you must start with books like How Jesus Became Christian by Prof. Barrie Wilson (most bookstores) and Who Are The Netzarim? (publ. .schuellerhouse.com) by Israeli Orthodox Jew, Paqid Yirmeyahu Ben-David.

Discover the eye-popping documented historical facts that scholars and historians know but no one is telling you, at (deleted by Vic) in Ra'anana, Israel

Following the teachings of the Judaic Mâshiakh (Messiah) Ribi Yehoshua – that is doing one’s utmost to practice the 613 commandments of Torah - also brings the inner joy, purpose and happiness of working intimately with him to bring about, and participate in, the Messianic era, enjoying a higher level of communion with ha-Sheim - the Creator - as party to Yirmeyâhu's (Jeremiah’s) New Covenant.

From Anders Branderud
Geir Toshav, Netzarim (deleted by Vic) in Ra’anana in Israel, whom is followers of Ribi Yehoshua – the Messiah – in Orthodox Judaism

Vic writes: "
Deu 27:26 Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen. "

First of all it is an translation in English; one should always study Torah in Hebrew. I will comment on this verse later in this post.

Before I was a Christian for six years and now I instead follow first century pro-Torah and pro-Halakhah Ribi Yehoshua (ha-Mashiakh) by practising non-selective Torah-observance.

Any candidate for being the Mashiakh must practise non-selectively Torah-observance according to Devarim (Hellenized to Deuteronmy) 13:1-6. Any proclaimed follower of the Mashiakh must do likewise; according to the same passage in Torah.

Ribi Yehoshua taught:

"Don't think that I came to uproot the Torah or the Neviim [prophets], but rather I came to reconcile them with the Oral Law of emet (truth). Should the heavens and ha-aretz (the land, particularly referring to Israel) exchange places, still, not even one ' (yod) nor one ` (qeren) of the Oral Law of Mosheh shall so much as exchange places; until it shall become that it is all being fully ratified and performed non-selectively. For whoever deletes one Oral Law from the Torah, or shall teach others such, by those in the Realm of the heavens he shall be called "deleted." Both he who preserves and he who teaches them shall be called Ribi in the Realm of the heavens. For I tell you that unless your Tzedaqah (righteousness) is over and above that of the Sophrim and of the [probably 'Herodian'] Rabbinic-Perushim (corrupted to "Pharisees"), there is no way you will enter into the Realm of the heavens! “
NHM (The Netzarim Reconstruction of Hebrew Matityahu ) 5:17-20

Historical Scholars in leading universities (for example Bart Ehrman) agrees that NT has been redacted. In the above quote all anti-Torah redactions are removed.

If you don’t follow Ribi Yehoshuas Torah-teachings, then you don’t follow Ribi Yehoshua. Ribi Yehoshua taught that the only way to get to ha-olam haba (the non dimensional realm; “heaven”) is by practising Torah non-selectively to the utmost of one’s ability. That is in perfect accordance with the teachings in Tan’’kh. Tan’’kh – for example Yekhëz•qeil (Hezekiel) 18 – promises kipur (atonement) for they who do their utmost to keep Torah. ha-Sheim – the Creator – cannot lie!!

תורה (Torah)‭ ‬ (תורה שבעל פה with תורה שבכתב) (oral Torah with written Torah) is indivisible and, therefore, may only be accepted or rejected in its entirety; never partially.

Selective observance ≡ selective rejection of תורה-in-its-entirety. Therefore, rejection of even one מצוה (mitzwah; commandment) is rejection of תורה-in-its-entirety. Therefore: selective observance is an unequivocal rejection of תורה, not תורה observance!

For an logical interpretation of Devârim (Hellenized to Deuteronomy) 27.26 se our website (below); then click at the page "Christians" (see the top of that page)

Finding the historical Jew, who was a Pharisee Ribi and following him brings you into Torah, which gives you a rich and meaningful life here on earth and great rewards in life after death (“heaven”)!

From Anders Branderud
Geir Toshav, Netzarim (Deleted by Vic) in Ra’anana in Israel who are followers of Ribi Yehoshua – ha-Mashiakh – in [meta-]Orthodox Judaism

Quote:Vic writes: "
Deu 27:26 Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen. "

First of all it is an translation in English; one should always study Torah in Hebrew. I will comment on this verse later in this post.

Where in the Torah does it say to only study the Torah in Hebrew? Even if one knows Hebrew, there is still going to be differing interpretations. With a good translation one is capable of getting the meaning of the text in any other language.

Quote:Before I was a Christian for six years and now I instead follow first century pro-Torah and pro-Halakhah Ribi Yehoshua (ha-Mashiakh) by practising non-selective Torah-observance.

The non selective torah observance is interesting,to say the least.But I can't believe you observe all the commands in the torah of Moses. How do you satisy the sacrificing of animals and bringing them to cohenim? Do you have your own cohenim?And where do the sacrifices take place, the Temple Mount?This is statement of yours raises many questions, as even orthodox today agree that a lot of Torah cannot be kept.So whos halachah do you adhere to? It isn't orthodox halacha ,that's for sure.

Quote:Ribi Yehoshua taught:

"Don't think that I came to uproot the Torah or the Neviim [prophets], but rather I came to reconcile them with the Oral Law of emet (truth). Should the heavens and ha-aretz (the land, particularly referring to Israel) exchange places, still, not even one ' (yod) nor one ` (qeren) of the Oral Law of Mosheh shall so much as exchange places; until it shall become that it is all being fully ratified and performed non-selectively. For whoever deletes one Oral Law from the Torah, or shall teach others such, by those in the Realm of the heavens he shall be called "deleted." Both he who preserves and he who teaches them shall be called Ribi in the Realm of the heavens. For I tell you that unless your Tzedaqah (righteousness) is over and above that of the Sophrim and of the [probably 'Herodian'] Rabbinic-Perushim (corrupted to "Pharisees"), there is no way you will enter into the Realm of the heavens! “
NHM (The Netzarim Reconstruction of Hebrew Matityahu ) 5:17-20

That is a sad butchering of the text. There is no Hebrew matthew that was been discovered to date.We have thousands of greek,latin and other manuscripts and they all testify against that very aberrant translation you just posted.

Quote:Historical Scholars in leading universities (for example Bart Ehrman) agrees that NT has been redacted. In the above quote all anti-Torah redactions are removed.

Bart Ehrman is the favourite scholar of muslims and some way out sects of Christianity .I will quote the words of Daniel B. Wallace,Executive Director at the Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts (csntm.org);

"As a teacher and writer, he is logical, witty, provocative, and sometimes given to overstatement as well as arguments that are not sufficiently nuanced."

And in respect to Ehraman's book "misquoting Jesus " this is what he had to say

"In other words, the idea that the variants in the NT manuscripts alter the theology of the NT is overstated at best. Unfortunately, as careful a scholar as Ehrman is, his treatment of major theological changes in the text of the NT tends to fall under one of two criticisms: Either his textual decisions are wrong, or his interpretation is wrong.

These criticisms were made of his earlier work, Orthodox Corruption of Scripture, which Misquoting Jesus has drawn from extensively. Yet, the conclusions that he put forth there are still stated here without recognition of some of the severe criticisms of his work the first go-around. For a book geared toward a lay audience, one would think that he would want to have his discussion nuanced a bit more, especially with all the theological weight that he says is on the line. One almost gets the impression that he is encouraging the Chicken Littles in the Christian community to panic at data that they are simply not prepared to wrestle with. Time and time again in the book, highly charged statements are put forth that the untrained person simply cannot sift through. And that approach resembles more an alarmist mentality than what a mature, master teacher is able to offer. Regarding the evidence, suffice it to say that significant textual variants that alter core doctrines of the NT have not yet been produced."

Quote:If you don’t follow Ribi Yehoshuas Torah-teachings, then you don’t follow Ribi Yehoshua. Ribi Yehoshua taught that the only way to get to ha-olam haba (the non dimensional realm; “heaven”) is by practising Torah non-selectively to the utmost of one’s ability. That is in perfect accordance with the teachings in Tan’’kh. Tan’’kh – for example Yekhëz•qeil (Hezekiel) 18 – promises kipur (atonement) for they who do their utmost to keep Torah. ha-Sheim – the Creator – cannot lie!!

We have a few threads on this subject such as Did Jesus bring a new Torah ,so feel free to check them out and then comment.

Quote:Finding the historical Jew, who was a Pharisee Ribi and following him brings you into Torah, which gives you a rich and meaningful life here on earth and great rewards in life after death (“heaven”)!

Jesus was not just a historical jew ,He was Him whom the prophets foretold, the mediator of the New Covenant, whom by His blood would come remission of sins. He was not a Pharisee. The Pharisees back then, as the Orthodox today do not recognize Jesus as the Christ. The people said He spoke like one with authority, not like one of the scribes or other teachers of the day. They recognized He had no formal learning, so He couldn’t have been a Pharisee. If He had been, the NT would have told us just as it tells us Paul was.

Sir, you call this man the Messiah. Do you call him God Almighty?

(01-10-2009 01:45 PM)strefanash Wrote: [ -> ]Sir, you call this man the Messiah. Do you call him God Almighty?

If you deny that the Messiah is God i will simply follow the word of the Master who said that "my sheep know my voice, that of another they simply will not follow"

If you deny that this man you call the Messiah is God Himself come in the flesh then I hold that you deny the Tanakh and the Prophets themselves, for IshYahu haNabi ( the Prophet Isaiah yes, indeed, I know the Hebrew names of these people) said: "For unto us a child is born . . . and his name shall be called wonderful counsellor ALMIGHTY GOD, EVERLASTING FATHER and Prince of peace." Either that or you deny that the Man from Nazareth is the Messiah, for it is clear that the Messiah can only be God Incarnate in the flesh.

I know that Judaism denies original sin, but in this the traditions of the Jews is in variance to the Torah of HaShem himself. For it is written that "the heart of man is deceitful and who can know it". It is also written that "there is none righteous no not one, their mouths are as an open grave". And when Isaiah spoke to this effect he was also referring to himself for he said to himself after seeing the Glory of the almighty in chapter one, alas I am a man of unclean lips.

Given therefore the Biblical fact of Original Sin if the presumed Messiah is not God he is not only not the Messiah but a sinner who himself did not keep Torah.

And given the fact that none keep the Torah for none are righteous the way to salvation must be some other way if there is any way at all, which leads me to the rejection of Paul of Tarsus you espouse in your post

Regarding this idea , I imagine you hold he showed this and showed it presumably by denying the Torah of HaShem. If so, I wil assert that if you think you can keep the entire Torah then you have not seriously tried to keep it and therefore failed to a spectacular and hideous degree.

To think that Justification by faith denies the LAw of GOd is to propound the egregious fallacy of the straw man. Paul did not deny the Law, he upheld it, but made it clear that although the proper purpose of the LAw was one thing, trying to live by it by force of will (the only way sinners can attempt it) was not that proper purpose.

Knowing that the Messiah must be God Himself, and knowing that the LAw of GOd cannot be kept, one must know that there is no ground whatever for calling Paul the Apostle apostate.

You,sir, may be honest in your opinion, but i strongly doubt the honesty of those who originated this heresy in this time.

AS for your fondness for Hebrew Terms of Address, that is your privilege, but prefer I call Him

Imperator, Terribilus Pater, Rex Omnipotens, Sanctus et Terribilus, Dominus Deus, Magister etc.

or even in Russian, Tsar. and Samoderzhets (autocrat) or gosudar (sovereign)

or in Greek
Basileus (EMperor)

or the old forms of address as used to the kings of England, namely

Dread Lord, Puissant Sovereign

AS these are all synonyms for biblical terms they are entirely valid.

Infatuation with things Jewish has gone too far for it denies that they were themselves sinner who set the word of God at naught with their human traditions overlaying it

in nomine patris et filiis et spiritui sancti amen

Anders B

Selective observance ≡ selective rejection of תורה-in-its-entirety. Therefore, rejection of even one מצוה (mitzwah; commandment) is rejection of תורה-in-its-entirety. Therefore: selective observance is an unequivocal rejection of תורה, not תורה observance!

Strefanash: I fully agree. But so does St JAmes. He who breaks one commandment, he says, breaks the lot. NOW I ask you. Are you perfect?

If you are not perfect you do not observe the torah, this by your own logic. therefore your failure in observance is not really different from a selective (ie total) rejection. And why? the Messiah said BE PERFECT.

But of course if you think you are perfect then you have violated I John. If any says he has no sin he is a liar and the truth is not in them.

Either way we sinners are totally hemmed in. The Law does not aid us it totally blocks off the way that flesh would reach heaven, that is to say be legal effort. All that remains is to enter the personal relationship with the Holy Spirit which the prophets alone had in those days but which is now promsed to all believers, and to be lead to heaven dirtectly and personally, one on one, by the hand, by this Holy Spirit

To returhn to selective observance.of course the council of Jerusalem said not to burden gentile believers with anything other than fornication etc.

Do you reject the book of acts and this therefore heretical council meeting described therein?

What remains of the scripture after you have finished with it?

let me say again, observing the torah, by which i mean the inner meaning of the thing not necessarily the outward observances, would be a famous and marvellous thing if we ever did observe it, and if our efforts to do so ever constituted obedience to it.

But they never did. If they did no new covenant would be necessary, and Jesus would owe an apology to the Pharisees. Not only that, but as their efforet was exactly what HaShem wanted if you are correct agbout observing torah, He would never have so flagrantly and cynically abused the faith of those zealous for the Law by driving Israel from the Land in 70 AD. Because surely for the zealous lawkeeping of a few He would have spared the Land as He promised he would to to Sodom and Gomorrah if he could find a few law keeping men in that city. Is this an implication you have considered?

IF you can pardon some seriousness here. (the rest was casual talk compared to this one, so brace yourself) If you knew your sin you would not dare advocate salvation by works, which is what your championing of Torah is, for you would know that Torah is not your life, but your death sentence.

I have not referred to so much as a single word of the "apostate" of Tarsus. I dont need to. I was serious for the Law of God and discovered myself that it was my death sentence, not my healing

Hi Anders,

I thought your link looked familiar. When I was researching James Trimm several years ago.I actually quoted it in reference to Nazarene Judaism. How bout that. And I had it pegged as an Orthodox Jewish site, not withstanding that the guy who started it claims to be a former baptist minister. Sure a lot of "former" baptists going into HR and Judaism. :poke:

Now according to you and that site--Christians follow a pagan Christ, deny His divinity etc.--so you reject Jesus Christ and Christians as being anything but apostate or totally pagan.

..."Training Jews to effectively retrieve Jews from Christianity & Yesh"u –Opportunity to reverse assimilation for the first time in 2,000 years!
Reversing assimilation through teaching Christians, including Christian Jews, to follow the Torah-teaching historical Pharisee Ribi Yehoshua as the Mashiakh instead of the anti-Torah and misojudaic Christian Yesh"u they now follow. In the process, Christian Jews discover the need to make teshuvah back to the legitimate 1st century halakhic Judaism of Torah, Dead Sea Scroll 4Q MMT, et al.; to the Orthodox Beit Kәneset and legitimate Jewish Community — which is precisely what historical Ribi Yehoshua taught!!! ...[...MisrQlit/MisrQlit.htm]

So you come to a Christian site to do what? Proselytize or attempt to?

Anders the teaching on that site you are a part of requires the person who is taking the distance learning to go into isolation and then take their information solely from

"...Paqid Yirmeyahu, the Netzarim are the only followers of Ribi Yehoshua the Mashiakh who are properly documented as having achieved recognition in various authoritative sectors of the Orthodox community and, therefore, the only beit din determining and disseminating the teachings of Ribi Yehoshua the Mashiakh..."

So, you all reject Jesus Christ and claim that He was a Pharisee and only a man, which is how you lure people weak in the faith or who have entered HR or Messianic beliefs into thinking they are getting the real truth?

You claim to have scholars behind you concerning the NT being redacted etc etc--and I rather like the way HansC dealt with it on his Christian forum. I think he used the word oxen minds or something similar--and there are always those who come up with something to try to deny the truth of the Scriptures. As he pointed out---most scholars recognise the validity of the NT.

Since you have heard all this before---you know that you are not going to be able to push your doctrine here. That said, if you would like help returning to the Christ of the Scriptures--God manifest in the flesh, who died on the cross for all mankinds sins, and who rose again and is sitting at the Right hand of the Father--I will be only to happy to discuss that with you---from the OT, NT and Christian beliefs.

As far as you and anyone else claiming to keep the torah--parts of it---I see a few others have also addressed this issue but if you need further Scripture concerning this please allow me to present you with some here:

Deu 27:26 Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

By trying to keep parts of the law you also ignore the scriptures concerning the New covenant promised by God:

Zec 11:7 And I will feed the flock of slaughter, even you, O poor of the flock. And I took to me two staves; the one I called Beauty, and the other I called Bands; and I fed the flock. 8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul loathed them, and their soul also abhorred me. 9 Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dies, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another. 10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people. 11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited on me knew that it was the word of the LORD.

Isaiah 42:1-9
(1) Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. (2) He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. (3) A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. (4) He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
(5) Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

(6) I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

(7) To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
(8) I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
(9) Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.

Judaism is distinct from Christianity for may reasons Anders. Its when someone tries to merge bits and pieces from each that there is a problem. Orthodox Jews reject Jesus Christ as the Messiah and that He is God manifest in the flesh. That is their belief. TO suggest otherwise is merely an attempt to ensare those who don't know the difference.

I could take your posts apart and respond to each, but I don't think it's necessary, do you?