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Does anyone know why Messianics call their leaders, "Rabbis"? Why do they think getting an ordination in the teachings of messianic Judaism gives them the right to be called "Rabbi" when they have not studied in a true Yeshiva?

Inquiring minds want to know ........

Sheep that is one of my pet peeves.For many reasons.

First Jesus specifically said

Mat 23:8 But you be not called Rabbi: for one is your Teacher, even Christ; and all you are brothers.

That should be reason enough alone.Those who call themselves rabbis and preach Jesus ,(with authority since most will then set themselves up as teachers of Christians or believers) are being hypocrites with a capital H.
Then another reason.It is deceptive and depreciating to the real rabbis of Judaism.
In Judaism one earns the title of Rabbi by attending certain schools and abiding by certain protocols.
The only reason why a messianic would wish to assume the title of Rabbi is to deceive in my opinion.I know this sounds harsh but let's face it, Jesus said don’t call anyone Rabbi and real Rabbis do not preach Jesus they preach Judaism.
What other reason could here be, its assuming the title of something that you are not.

And also the same goes for when people call Paul Rav Shaul. I can imagine Paul being horrified at this and responding with the above scripture

Rose. Pet peeve of mine also.

And you know the most hypocritical part, out of those same mouths advocating being called rabbi in the Hebrew roots and messianic world---is the statement we have to keep the commandments and do what Jesus said. Else we are antinomians , lawless, and all sorts of slurs.

Just as they mess up a whole bunch of Scriptures--they mess up their favorite one:

Matthew 5:19-20 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus also said:

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Funny how such a simple commandment as not being called Rabbi or Teacher is so hard to keep for these self appointed 'leaders'.

Wonder why?

This is how Paul presented himself or was presented in the Scriptures, quite often just as Paul, or:

Act 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,)
Act 14:14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they

Act 15:22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:

Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated

1Co 1:1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

1Co 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

Eph 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you

Col 4:18 The salutation by the hand of me Paul. Remember my bonds.

1Th 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2Th 3:17 The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write.

1Ti 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;

Tit 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Phm 1:1 Paul, a prisoner of Jesus Christ, and Timothy our brother, unto Philemon our dearly beloved, and fellowlabourer,
Phm 1:2 And to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellowsoldier, and to the church in thy house:

Phm 1:9 Yet for love's sake I rather beseech thee, being such an one as Paul the aged, and now also a prisoner of Jesus Christ.

John > Joh 21:24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

3Jn 1:1 The elder unto the wellbeloved Gaius, whom I love in the truth.

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

James>Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren,

Peter> 1 Peter 1:1-2 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2. Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1Pe 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: ...1Pe 5:3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Jude> Jud 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Nowhere do we see them focusing on themselves, having inflated egos, demanding to be esteemed, or referring to themselves or anyone else as "rabbi".

On the contrary, they invariably called themselves servants of Christ, and constantly pointed to Him, even in their salutations. They used the words apostles, disciples, brethren, brother or sister, elders--always lower case. They were the apostles who walked with and bore witness of Jesus Christ, and yet they showed not pride in that, but the servant quality that Jesus showed them. They were not respecters of persons, nor did they expect special treatment, special rules, special excuses, special labels. They cared about the things and people Jesus did.

Jesus said, by their fruit you shall know them. And having rabbi plastered all over a persons website or "teaching" material, or levite or whatever other label is used to reel in followers--shows they lack knowledge at the very least, of the Word of God. There is one Teacher, and One Good Shepherd, and that is Jesus Christ.

Quote:Does anyone know why Messianics call their leaders, "Rabbis"? Why do they think getting an ordination in the teachings of messianic Judaism gives them the right to be called "Rabbi" when they have not studied in a true Yeshiva?

Inquiring minds want to know ........

I can think of two reasons they might do this offensive practice:
1) to mislead people into thinking they are Jews and are practicing Judaism
2) to make themselves feel like the are practicing Judaism.

I also see they call their churches "synagogues" and "shuls".
Yuck.

(06-29-2009 11:39 PM)SheitlQueen Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:Does anyone know why Messianics call their leaders, "Rabbis"? Why do they think getting an ordination in the teachings of messianic Judaism gives them the right to be called "Rabbi" when they have not studied in a true Yeshiva?

Inquiring minds want to know ........

I can think of two reasons they might do this offensive practice:
1) to mislead people into thinking they are Jews and are practicing Judaism
2) to make themselves feel like the are practicing Judaism.

I also see they call their churches "synagogues" and "shuls".
Yuck.

You are quite right, but #1 needs a further comment. It's a mixed bag - some allow people to think they are Jews, some actually lie about it with Jewish names, and then promote the fact that they are Hebrew "scholars". Most are self taught and don't understand that Hebrew is translated contextually, so they blunder onwards throwing all kinds of "new" definitions to Hebrew words to make it fit their theology. It ends up a scrambled mess. At times, they even "borrow" interpretations from the Rabbis and make it sound like it's their own "revelation". On top of that, most of the time these "new and special" revelations and self promoted interpretations are not given freely, but sold. In other words, if you "really want to know the truth", it's for sale at a big price. Such "Torah obedience" overwhelms me

(06-30-2009 11:51 AM)sheep wrecked Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-29-2009 11:39 PM)SheitlQueen Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:Does anyone know why Messianics call their leaders, "Rabbis"? Why do they think getting an ordination in the teachings of messianic Judaism gives them the right to be called "Rabbi" when they have not studied in a true Yeshiva?

Inquiring minds want to know ........

I can think of two reasons they might do this offensive practice:
1) to mislead people into thinking they are Jews and are practicing Judaism
2) to make themselves feel like the are practicing Judaism.

I also see they call their churches "synagogues" and "shuls".
Yuck.

You are quite right, but #1 needs a further comment. It's a mixed bag - some allow people to think they are Jews, some actually lie about it with Jewish names, and then promote the fact that they are Hebrew "scholars". Most are self taught and don't understand that Hebrew is translated contextually, so they blunder onwards throwing all kinds of "new" definitions to Hebrew words to make it fit their theology. It ends up a scrambled mess. At times, they even "borrow" interpretations from the Rabbis and make it sound like it's their own "revelation". On top of that, most of the time these "new and special" revelations and self promoted interpretations are not given freely, but sold. In other words, if you "really want to know the truth", it's for sale at a big price. Such "Torah obedience" overwhelms me

One might as well ask why non-messianic leaders call themselves "rabbis" when they have not accepted the Messiah.

More directly, a "rabbi" is a teacher who is also a student. A rabbi is learing about God all his life, and is humble enough to admit it.

I do not know why you feel such a need to make false accusations against Messianic rabbis. I know that many non-Messianic Jews are afraid that Messianic Judaism could be right. They do not fear Christianity because they can point to various customs and say, "That is Pagan." They cannot do that with Messianic Judaism, so they make things up.

(08-05-2009 10:50 AM)John-Bible-reader Wrote: [ -> ]One might as well ask why non-messianic leaders call themselves "rabbis" when they have not accepted the Messiah.

A "Rabbi" is not a Christian concept - it's from Judaism. Rabbinical Judaism gives the title to men who have studied in a Yeshiva and "earn" it. They then have a smicha or ordination by which one becomes a Rabbi. This is not a Messianic system, it denies Jesus Christ.

Quote:More directly, a "rabbi" is a teacher who is also a student. A rabbi is learing about God all his life, and is humble enough to admit it.

A Rabbi is known as "a great one". It is a position or title within Judaism in which one is considered superior in knowledge and spirituality. They do not study about God - they study the Talmud, which is considered authoritatively above the Bible and is an interpretative system with added laws and commandments to properly observe Torah/halacha. It is not a Biblical system.

Quote:I do not know why you feel such a need to make false accusations against Messianic rabbis. I know that many non-Messianic Jews are afraid that Messianic Judaism could be right. They do not fear Christianity because they can point to various customs and say, "That is Pagan." They cannot do that with Messianic Judaism, so they make things up.

There is no such thing as a true Messianic Rabbi. It's a mix of religions. I like to call it identity theft. Judaism is not "right" from a Christian or Messianic perspective. Judaism denies Jesus Christ. To take its traditions and practices and apply them to Jesus is not less "pagan" that what the church is accused of. Messianic Judaism is all about making it up as you go along and stealing from the Jews [who are deeply offended by the whole thing].

(08-05-2009 10:50 AM)John-Bible-reader Wrote: [ -> ]One might as well ask why non-messianic leaders call themselves "rabbis" when they have not accepted the Messiah.

Rabbis do not accept Jesus as Messiah...
No one should be calling themselves "rabbi" unless they have
been to a credible Jewish yeshiva, studied years, and passed
all the rigorous testing involved in receiving smicha.
Anything less than that is offensive and belittling the title.

Quote:I do not know why you feel such a need to make false accusations against Messianic rabbis.

Because they are not rabbis. Many aren't even Jews.....look around
at the websites of Messianic congregations and you will often find
ministers/pastors/preachers who are calling themselves "rabbi".

If someone is halachaly Jewish and calling himself "rabbi" he too is
being dishonest unless they have smicha from a legitimate rabbinical
source...which they won't, if they are Messianic.

Quote: I know that many non-Messianic Jews are afraid that Messianic Judaism could be right. They do not fear Christianity because they can point to various customs and say, "That is Pagan." They cannot do that with Messianic Judaism, so they make things up.

Nah, no fear whatsoever. How is it different that a Christian can
believe in Jesus as messiah, saviour, G-d, and be a pagan but
a Messianic isn't? Because the Christian celebrates their saviors
birth/death by Easter and Christimas?

I tell you, I have a lot more respect for Christians than Messianics...
Christians know you don't mix Judaism andChristianity.
Messisanics are trying to blend the best of both worlds together,
which is a contradiction as Judaism and Christian hold very, very
different beliefs.

(08-06-2009 12:42 PM)SheitlQueen Wrote: [ -> ]I tell you, I have a lot more respect for Christians than Messianics...
Christians know you don't mix Judaism andChristianity.
Messisanics are trying to blend the best of both worlds together,
which is a contradiction as Judaism and Christian hold very, very
different beliefs.

But it appears that Messianics are smarter and more knowledgeable and want nothing better than to teach the Jews