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Jeremiah 31:31, 32 has recently taken some hits by Hebrew Roots. It replaces "new covenant" with "renewed". Here is the text:

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, said the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was an husband to them, said the LORD:

What does the Hebrew say? Can it be translated as "renewed" contextually?

Any thoughts?

My personal thoughts on the matter are two-fold.
First fold is that whatever a person calls it, it is purely semantics.
Second fold is Romans 14. If that is what they choose, who am I to make them stumble on something so minor?

(12-14-2008 11:09 AM)grafted Wrote: [ -> ]My personal thoughts on the matter are two-fold.
First fold is that whatever a person calls it, it is purely semantics.
Second fold is Romans 14. If that is what they choose, who am I to make them stumble on something so minor?

Part of the problem is that renewed covenant can mean to some that there was no finished work when Christ was crucified and rose again. For some they are making sacrfice, etc-and yet Jesus was the final sacrifice. Romans 14 also means that they are not to make issue of food etc---yet for many in HR--not only are things unclean, but they take it as being torahless or lawless by not following all those things. Many end up rejecting Christ and bit by bit the NT is dissected and removed because it is perceived that it was written by pagan greeks and they missed the mark on keeping Torah.

Incidentally the Hebrew cannot be translated as renewed, so linguistics are being tampered with for an agenda. God promised a New Covenant, not a renewed covenant. Theyare not the same meaning.

(12-14-2008 08:58 PM)Vic Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-14-2008 11:09 AM)grafted Wrote: [ -> ]If that is what they choose, who am I to make them stumble on something so minor?

Part of the problem is that renewed covenant can mean to some that there was no finished work when Christ was crucified and rose again. For some they are making sacrfice, etc-and yet Jesus was the final sacrifice. Romans 14 also means that they are not to make issue of food etc---yet for many in HR--not only are things unclean, but they take it as being torahless or lawless by not following all those things. Many end up rejecting Christ and bit by bit the NT is dissected and removed because it is perceived that it was written by pagan greeks and they missed the mark on keeping Torah.

Incidentally the Hebrew cannot be translated as renewed, so linguistics are being tampered with for an agenda. God promised a New Covenant, not a renewed covenant. Theyare not the same meaning.

I agree Vic....

Grafted ...if they choose the "renewed tradition" they have already been set on a path that has the potential to cause them to stumble and we would do right by them to point this out.

There is only one path... and it is narrowed with the warning that "few there be that find it" this is the warning to all of us.

See the temple sacrifice itself wasnt ever meant to bring redemption...it was to be as a reminder to them that Christ would come once and for all as the ultimate and only sacrifice.

Quote:Hos 6:4
O Ephraim, what shall I do unto thee?
O Judah, what shall I do unto thee?
For your goodness is as a morning cloud, and as the early dew it goeth away.
Hos 6:5
Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets;
I have slain them by the words of my mouth:
and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth.
Hos 6:6
For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
Hos 6:7
But they like men have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.

See like men will do, they left off the true knowledge of God and what He has always desired from His people. Thus they began to take the sacrifice for granted and in a very catholic way ( thru research you'll find that jewish and catholic practices are very much alike in these things) anyway... they began to sin like the devil all week long and throw a lamb on the fire come sabbath, which of course they assumed cleansed them for another week of sinning against God and their fellow man. And even in this they began to further transgress by giving as a sacrifice...the blemished of their flock.

A little leaven and all that... goes a very long way :s
And the planting of leaven is what the term "renewed" is meant to accomplish.

But as the lament above from God says...

Quote:For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

And of course this was first spoken to them in the ten commandments, Jesus summing them up in 2 by telling us to Love God with all our hearts souls and minds and our fellow man as we love ourselves.

With these 2 actions only on our part can we fulfill all the law while patiently awaiting the return of the Lord. :arms:

Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints, they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

(12-17-2008 11:47 AM)blessedayers Wrote: [ -> ]With these 2 actions only on our part can we fulfill all the law while patiently awaiting the return of the Lord. :arms:

Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints, they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Thanx for an excellent post

I wonder if you would define what commandments are spoken of in that passage. When I was part of HR, I was taught that they meant the Mosaic Law. thanx!!

I believe that it means we must keep all the Ten Commandments as Jesus told us to. The Jews and Gentiles both.

In the final chapter of the Bible, Jesus reminds us of the supreme importance of God's commandments to our eternal life.
"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city" (Revelation 22:14).

It is important that we believe what Jesus and His apostles said about their own view of the commandments of God. Once that is clear, then the reasonings of men cannot deter us from respecting and obeying those commandments from the heart.

God said to Moses, "Oh, that they had such a heart in them that they would fear Me and always keep all My commandments, that it might be well with them and with their children forever!" (Deuteronomy 5:29).

And Jesus said, "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love" (John 15:10).

Deuteronomy 7:9
Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

Luke 1:5,6,7.
(The time and people at the beginning of the history of the life of Jesus.)

There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah. His wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. But they had no child, because Elizabeth was barren, and they were both well advanced in years.
The ordinances spoken of here are the Mosaic Laws

Luke 18:20
Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Acts 1:2
Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

1 Corinthians 14:37
If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Ephesians 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

2 John 1:6
And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

(02-07-2009 04:24 AM)ceebee Wrote: [ -> ]I believe that it means we must keep all the Ten Commandments as Jesus told us to. The Jews and Gentiles both.

In the final chapter of the Bible, Jesus reminds us of the supreme importance of God's commandments to our eternal life.
"Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city" (Revelation 22:14).

It is important that we believe what Jesus and His apostles said about their own view of the commandments of God. Once that is clear, then the reasonings of men cannot deter us from respecting and obeying those commandments from the heart.

God said to Moses, "Oh, that they had such a heart in them that they would fear Me and always keep all My commandments, that it might be well with them and with their children forever!" (Deuteronomy 5:29).

For someone who is just getting into the "Jewish" feasts - you seem to have come quite a ways in the last couple of days in knowledge about the "commandments" [The Law]

Just a quick question for you: You are aware that different words are used for commandment in all the verses that you quoted? Are you aware that the commandments given in the Pentatuch were not just the decalouge? Just a note, most of the the verses you quoted are not referring to the Mosaic Law/10 ..........

If a contract is no longer in force do we have to abide by what it says?
The Ten Commandments were part of the Covenant which God made with the Israelites forefathers in Egypt.
As Christians we enter in via the New Covenant

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; my covenant which they broke, although I was a husband unto them, says the LORD:

As Christians we will not really break nine of those willingly since they summarise(though are not exhaustive)basically what God requires of people that love and obey Him.The Ten do contain the command to keep the Shabbat, and while as Christians we keep the Shabbat in its spiritual sense ie our rest from our works to be accounted as righteous of our own efforts, we do not keep or are bound to keep it in its physical ceremonial sense.

Just my quick two cents

Quote:I believe that it means we must keep all the Ten Commandments as Jesus told us to. The Jews and Gentiles both.

Hi Ceebee, The ten commandments were summed up by Jesus. And when He spoke of them He never mentioned the Sabbath--nor did the apostles, what do you think about that?

Quote:It is important that we believe what Jesus and His apostles said about their own view of the commandments of God. Once that is clear, then the reasonings of men cannot deter us from respecting and obeying those commandments from the heart.

Their own view Ceebee? Jesus was bringing in the promised New Covenant, which brought in New commandments as we see throughout His ministry and then continued on with the apostles. . He was in fact THE New Covenant, and God manifest in the flesh. It wasn't just His opinion or the apostles opinion of the commandments from the Mosiac law. Jesus was giving the New commandments, as discussed in various ways--You have heard,...but this I say unto you, etc. And many times we see how He exhibited mercy and compassion instead of following the judgments of the Mosaic law, the woman with the issue of blood, the unclean people such as lepers, touching the dead, the woman taken in adultery, the Samaritan woman and later staying with the Samaritans in their town, etc.

The apostles were given understanding on what to teach by the Holy Spirit and as Paul stated for himself:

Galatians 1:11-12 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

So their "views" were that the promise of the New Covenant was fuliflled in Christ and it was:"Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt;".

Therefore we know what we need to follow first and foremost is found within the New Covenant, and the Old must be read and understood in light of the New Covenant. Further, the law was in force while Jesus was doing His ministry but changed the moment He was crucified and rose from the dead. Prior to that, until His sacrifice, the Mosaic law was in effect for the Jews, but He was showing the Spirit of the Law, which the Pharisees had omitted. And with the New Covenant, all mankind had access to Him.

Ephesians 2:15-16 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16. And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

abolished >G2673
καταργέω
katargeō
Thayer Definition:
1) to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative
1a) to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency
1b) to deprive of force, influence, power
2) to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish
2a) to cease, to pass away, be done away
2b) to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one
2c) to terminate all intercourse with one
Part of Speech: verb
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

blotting out> G1813
ἐξαλείφω
exaleiphō
Thayer Definition:
1) to anoint or wash in every part
1a) to besmear: i.e. cover with lime (to whitewash or plaster)
2) to wipe off, wipe away
2a) to obliterate, erase, wipe out, blot out
Part of Speech: verb

Hebrews 10:5-10 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6. In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9. Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

taketh away>G337
ἀναιρέω
anaireō
Thayer Definition:
1) to take up, to lift up (from the ground)
1a) to take up for myself as mine
1b) to own (an exposed infant)
2) to take away, abolish
2a) to do away with or abrogate customs or ordinances
2b) to put out of the way, kill slay a man
Part of Speech: verb

establish> G247
ἵστημι
histēmi
Thayer Definition:
1) to cause or make to stand, to place, put, set
1a) to bid to stand by, [set up]
1a1) in the presence of others, in the midst, before judges, before members of the Sanhedrin
1a2) to place
1b) to make firm, fix establish
1b1) to cause a person or a thing to keep his or its place
1b2) to stand, be kept intact (of family, a kingdom), to escape in safety
1b3) to establish a thing, cause it to stand
1b3a) to uphold or sustain the authority or force of anything
1c) to set or place in a balance
1c1) to weigh: money to one (because in very early times before the introduction of coinage, the metals used to be weighed)
2) to stand
2a) to stand by or near
2a1) to stop, stand still, to stand immovable, stand firm
2a1a) of the foundation of a building
2b) to stand
2b1) continue safe and sound, stand unharmed, to stand ready or prepared
2b2) to be of a steadfast mind
2b3) of quality, one who does not hesitate, does not waiver
Part of Speech: verb

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: ...13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Now before we go into this further, I would suggest reading the threads in the Messianic/Hebrew Roots sections:

Are We Commanded to Observe the Mosaic Law [Torah]? >http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=61

Was that a Renewed Covenant or New Covenant >http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=12

Keep the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday & Rest in Christ >http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=65

And any others related to them, rather than starting all over and reiterating what has already been stated.

That said, is it a miracle Ceebee, that overnight, you suddenly found all those references? You must have studied all night. :41:

God works in mysterious ways.

I wonder what else you have learned since yesterday.

I was thinking about studying the Jewish Feasts and have been doing some research.

I have been attending church for 50 years and read my bible daily but don't profess to be scholarly or have special bible knowledge. Just an avid reader. Those references to commandments were found by using a search tool and I thought after reading them that they all said we should keep the Ten Commandments.

Maybe I have missed what you meant in your question