SeekGod.ca Discussion Forum

At the church I attend there is some talk about electing woman Elders. There are some for and some against and both have good pionts. The bible tells me,

1Ti 2:11 Let a woman learn in silence, in all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 And I do not allow a woman to teach nor to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence.

1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

In most churches I know women talk, I would like to know what some of you think.

Hueman

(03-31-2009 02:40 AM)hueman Wrote: [ -> ]At the church I attend there is some talk about electing woman Elders. There are some for and some against and both have good pionts. The bible tells me,

1Ti 2:11 Let a woman learn in silence, in all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 And I do not allow a woman to teach nor to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence.

1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

In most churches I know women talk, I would like to know what some of you think.

Hueman

Woman elders, huh?

Hueman you are opening a pandora's box for some.

I think the Scriptures you posted are speaking of the church proper. And I do not believe women should be elders in the church. The description and qaulifications for leadership in the church is found in:

1 Timothy 3:1-13 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3. Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4. One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5. (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 6. Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. 8. Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; 9. Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. 10. And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. 11. Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. 12. Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13. For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Titus 1:5-9 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: 6. If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. 7. For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; 8. But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; 9. Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

There are other Scriptures that also apply. I don't believe a woman fits that description. I have been in churches where women were deaconesses, and chair of the board, and quite frankly I have seen women in these cases exerting authority over men. I believe that is wrong.

I believe some are so fixated on women not teaching and take it out of context,.and think if a woman says anything on spiritual matters, she needs to shut up--yes it's been said in that way. I have also seen men who will listen to what a woman has to say, but tune out if it is in reference to anything biblical, so they are not guilty of letting her teach them something from Scripture. Which they should likely already know incidentally. Those same people will think nothing of a woman being a missionary and teaching men in other countries about Jesus Christ.

As servants of the Lord Jesus Christ we are all -men and women- called to stand as soldiers of the cross, defending the faith and sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We see that in Paul's writings particularly, and he also wrote the above verses.

"And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

I think the key thing here in this passage is that when women want to learn things Scripturally, they need to wait to ask at home and discuss with their husbands, and not interrupt the service by wanting an explanation of some Scripture. That passage was part of telling the Corinthians that God is not of confusion and things needed to be done orderly in the service. It wasn't good for men to all be talking during the service either, btw.

Here is a really cool example of how God used women for yes, teaching and expounding the Word


Act 18:24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.
Act 18:25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spoke and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.
Act 18:26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue:whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him to them, and expounded to him the way of God more perfectly.

Act 18:27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brothers wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
Act 18:28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publicly, showing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.
Act 18:24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.
Act 18:25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spoke and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.
Act 18:26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him to them, and expounded to him the way of God more perfectly.
Act 18:27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brothers wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
Act 18:28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publicly, showing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.

And my favorite - guess who was the first to declare the Gospel message as instructed by Jesus Himself

Joh 20:16 Jesus said to her, Mary. She turned herself, and said to him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
Joh 20:17 Jesus said to her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brothers, and say to them, I ascend to my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Joh 20:18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the LORD, and that he had spoken these things to her.

The Angel's instructions:

Mar 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
Mar 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came to the sepulcher at the rising of the sun.
Mar 16:3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulcher?
Mar 16:4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.
Mar 16:5 And entering into the sepulcher, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.
Mar 16:6 And he said to them, Be not affrighted: You seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.
Mar 16:7 But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goes before you into Galilee: there shall you see him, as he said to you.

Mat 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulcher.
Mat 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat on it.
Mat 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
Mat 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
Mat 28:5 And the angel answered and said to the women, Fear not you: for I know that you seek Jesus, which was crucified.
Mat 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
Mat 28:7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goes before you into Galilee; there shall you see him: see, I have told you.

Timothy did say woman should be silence and ask theyre husband at home.
Now i heard the following explanation.

In the synagoge was a balconey where the woman use to sit.
And during the service they yeld down to theyre husbands
what
waht did he say
what does tha mean

that was the reason, all those woman on the balconey yelling and talking.
They disturbed the srvice.


And about woman preachers?
In the bible there are woman who have alot of good stuff to say....
Jesus had woman in His compagney.

I think man are woman are not the same but equal for god.
Both got a brain, a mouth and ears etc.
So they can think and speak theyre mind.
The church used the "woman have to b silent' as an excuse to opress woman.
Its a mans world.
Woman cannot usurp authority over theyre own man.
But does that mean that they have to be submitted to al man?

Dont think so!

:bringiton:

Emje

IS St Paul's refusal to allow women to speak in churches culturally based, and thus only relative to the circumstances of the time? (Some claim this citing the position of women in the Roman Empire) Or not?

It does seem that his argument that it was Eve who fell first, to eat the forbidden fruit, implies that Paul's decision was of universal import for all times.

Another thing: these people, women priests, or even any other, have a burning desire to be priests or pastors or whatever, as if it were about their burning desire. I see no sense of them responding to a calling of the Holy One. I hold that until I am called my desire to be anything in the church is likely presumptioon

Of course neither being a woman or a church attender this question has not concerned me deeply.

(05-12-2009 05:05 PM)Strefanash Wrote: [ -> ]IS St Paul's refusal to allow women to speak in churches culturally based, and thus only relative to the circumstances of the time? (Some claim this citing the position of women in the Roman Empire) Or not?

People DO like to throw out things they don't like by claiming that they were only "culturally based" and therefore do not have relevance in our 'enlightened times'

That is so poor of an excuse. the bible says it, No women teachers in the "congregation" over men. Women are to be teachers over women! Has anyone noticed a new way to skirt this? One church wwe left had hired a woman to be the "Sunday School superintendant". I cant find what verse they got that position from. This women was even a forrmer priciple in a secula school. Guess how she ran things. Even the pastor would refer people to her when ever they asked anything regarding Sunday School.

She claimed that she was not in violation off that verse as she did not teach any mens classes. However, She WAS in charge of all material used in Sunday School, even in the men's class. And she had the authority to "excuse" any male teachers which she had a problem with.....

The point is this. One MUST have order in a congregation. And God established one. Thats it, whether we like it or not.

Besides, The fact that the Elder must be a Husband of one wife. And not the other way around. But the problem is not just the women preachers. We have men preachers who are just as bad. The verse also requires "Having their children in Subjection". And yet, I have watched Preacher's children playing Pokemon DURING THE SERMON! Or Doing their nails, or Texting their boyfriends, etc, etc!

1 Timothy 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity


Even my wife agrees. Look at the fruit coming from women 'preachers'.

We once heard a woman 'preacher' on tv just to see what she would say. She was teaching on the "feeding of the 5000". According to her though, it was 5000 WOMEN, including men and children..."

SERIOUSLY! What version is that?




=========================
*** To Zen Xristos ***
IN AETERNAM SEMPER

Acts 17:11 Receive the word with readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, "You do Err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God."

I believe we should take our examples from the bible, not on what someone thinks or feels. There are examples from the bible for women deacons and prophets, but I have not read one verse were a women was a priest/pastor/ elder.

If there is one (not Gal 3), a real example of a women priest somewhere would you please post it.

(01-27-2010 12:26 AM)Saltyone Wrote: [ -> ]I believe we should take our examples from the bible, not on what someone thinks or feels. There are examples from the bible for women deacons and prophets, but I have not read one verse were a women was a priest/pastor/ elder.

If there is one (not Gal 3), a real example of a women priest somewhere would you please post it.

A common mis-example grasping for straws is, Deborah!

But the proponents forget that she was only the leader for that battle. It was NOT spiritual leadership. It was a last resort as thhe rightfull male leader refused to follow God's Leading. And he was shunned as a result. But Israel never had Queens or Priestesses EVER. God never made allowance for it.

The other example used is about Aquilla and Priscilla. I believe that people forget that she is always under the covering of her husband and serving WITH him as his helpmeet and never alone as a rebel.

And if we are the "Bride" of Christ as His wife.... Why are so many Christians trying to usurp HIS authority also.