SeekGod.ca Discussion Forum - Jewish Wedding Parallels the Rapture

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What a lot of people miss when they seek to find the pararell with the rapture and the jewish wedding ceremony - is that it is only the ANCIENT Ceremony for wedding that actually fits - becasue of that when people have heard the connection - they fail to believe it is a correct comparison becasue they r looking at the wrong jewish wedding customs - the ANCIENT wedding customs fit very well indeed.

but these customs come clearly into view when the parable of the 10 virgins is understood in what is for me a particular and correct way, correctly aligning it to ancient jewish customs and the second coming of christ

Hi chabod
welcome to the forum!
Can you provide some documentation or reference where we could find these ancient jewish wedding customs that you speak of? Vic did a lot of research into this and if I remember correctly,failed to find any accurate source.
If you have found some please share as it will certainly be interesting!! Popcorn

my apologies

the data i have heard and have in part - is in fact concerning the Second Coming of Christ - and the parable of the 10 virgins is representative of the ancient jewish wedding customs.

but there are certain facts in my files for - that suggest part of the ceremony has significance to the rapture.

Such as - The ACTUAL WEDDING CEREMONY with ancient Israel tradition and ways was SIMPLY…the taking AWAY of the Bride(Rapture) FROM her home by the Groom.

That simple act constituted being wed. And as we know - even during the engagemnt process, prior to THAT leaving - the couple were seen AS wed though not together in particular ways - reflecting the earnest of the Spirit - its engagement for the fully consumated event later.

and whilst in heaven - she is NOT present on earth for the Tribulation period - and as such is not on earth to be judged for works done in the later half of the tribulation - which are worked by the power of satan, antichrist and false prophet and followers.

whilst absent from earth - in fact the bride in heaven makes herself ready - Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. note past tense - made - whilst in heaven

Whilst IN heaven, having been raptured - she prepares a wedding gown for HER RETURN to earth WITH her now husband. Part of the making heself ready is the "disrobing" of those works done whilst a believer on earth that are works of the flesh, done in the flesh and not part of gods will. These are burned up, thus the garment is purified - got ready.

Whilst the work that were done ON earth before the rapture - reward is given - a different and opposite adornment - for her gown, with which she returns as His bride with him to earth.

have tried to edit my post but its stuck by admin of 20 mins duration but i posted hours ago and still cant edit

however a note on the last input from me

The engagement lasted a year
The very next year they got wed

This matches and reflects - that the engagement ENDED when the groom came to the brides house and TOOK HER AWAY from earthy home (parents) - the rapture -
for the very NEXT year after the engagement was complete - they MARRIED - this is the time FROM the rapture, the leaving of earth, the leaving of an earthly home to a heavenly spire.

The very next year is part of a 7 year period that the bride exists in heaven, wed to her groom - before returning to earth with her husband.

(06-19-2011 01:59 AM)chabod Wrote: [ -> ]have tried to edit my post but its stuck by admin of 20 mins duration but i posted hours ago and still cant edit

however a note on the last input from me

The engagement lasted a year
The very next year they got wed

This matches and reflects - that the engagement ENDED when the groom came to the brides house and TOOK HER AWAY from earthy home (parents) - the rapture -
for the very NEXT year after the engagement was complete - they MARRIED - this is the time FROM the rapture, the leaving of earth, the leaving of an earthly home to a heavenly spire.

The very next year is part of a 7 year period that the bride exists in heaven, wed to her groom - before returning to earth with her husband.

Hi chabod,

There were no admin actions taking place on your post. THere is a limited time frame that you can edit a post and then that is gone, and what has been posted remains.

Re the wedding From the article: http://www.seekgod.ca/rapturewedding.htm

Quote:...The Jewish Wedding ceremony that Christians and Messianic's are accessing to make the parallel of and for proving the rapture, comes from the Talmud. That means the source that is being declared as being about Christ and Christians, is a source that clearly and openly rejects and denigrates Jesus Christ and Christians. It is not a source of doctrine for Christians.

As we will see with the various sources directly from Judaism -orthodox, reform, chasidic -the Jewish wedding ceremony is virtually the same. Some have different interpretations of meaning, with some more openly kabbalistic, but the source of the Jewish Wedding is defined by the Talmud, which all sects of Judaism follow. Understand that Judaism rejects Jesus Christ as Messiah, Savior and Lord.

It will be shown that the Jewish wedding ceremony and beliefs do not have, nor were they ever intended to have, anything to do with Jesus Christ. On the contrary, as stated from the one source, "You are hereby sanctified to me with this ring according to the Law of Moses and Israel.". In other words, missing throughout the various descriptions is any part of the Jewish wedding ceremony being compared to, or a parallel to Christ, or a rapture. They do not exist. There is absolutely nothing anywhere in Judaism that points to a surprise wedding day scenario. And no where do we see anything that suggests He surprises--as a thief in the night-- the bride and brings her to His fathers house where He has added a room for her.

What is being done by those who have taken snippets of the various Jewish wedding traditions, is they have taken pieces from one source, rearranged and reinvented the content and events and then made the declaration that the Jewish wedding tradition is really the story of Christ and the rapture, and attempt to match it to Scripture and or their opinion of particular Scripture or possible events. When the Jewish wedding in fact, does no such thing. It is entirely different than any scenario being declared as proving the rapture or the bride of Christ and so on. And the manipulation of these things goes against the very Scriptures said to be concerning all subjects involved.

It's almost like the telephone game only worse. If I might make it clearer, its like reading one story and conveying a word or two from that first story, into a second and totally different story, and then saying it is identical to the first story. And then saying it is identical to a third and totally different story that uses a few of the same words.

If one looks at the NT, we see one specific reference to a Jewish wedding where Jesus turned the water into wine. And the gist of the celebration was that it was normal for attendees to drink much wine, and after such was when the worst wine would have been served. Obviously that has nothing to do with Jesus Christ returning, regardless of what one believes concerning when Christ will return.

Part 1:

Many believe that the laws and customs relating to the Jewish wedding ceremony and all that surround it, date back to the giving of the Torah at Mt. Sinai. For many the Talmud is merely those things written down.

According to various sites and if one were to peruse the Talmud, the belief is that Adam and Eve were created as a single being, as siamese twins. Others say with two faces. God then separated them, making them husband and wife. Prior to marriage, it is believed that neither a man or woman is complete until they marry and become one whole being again. The wedding then is the unification of the two halves making them complete. This theme is repeated at every Jewish marriage. [15]

And just as Eve was brought to Adam (Genesis 2:22), so to the bride is brought to the groom. "Eve, who was created later, was shown thereby to be the higher life form of the two, because the potential of future life lies with her. Therefore, Adam was not complete until Eve was brought to him." [8]

*** Note -- Eve was brought to Adam. Adam did not go to get her.***

The Jewish wedding ceremonies are in several parts. The seven nuptial blessings speak of paradise regained, the miracle of God's creation, and the creation of man and woman, so that mankind might endure, and specifically the continuity of the Jewish people. The sixth blessing refers to marriage in the scheme of creation: "Make these beloved companions as happy as were the first human couple in the Garden of Eden." The joy of the Creator's blessing is invoked at the inception of every Jewish home.

*** Note, the seven blessings obviously have nothing to do with Jesus Christ or His return. If they are said over the cups of wine, then the significance of the cups means nothing as well to Christians.***

The thought is presented that if God created man, woman, and their marriage relationship; and if the creation of man and woman is good and marriage a blessing; then God is a conscious, albeit silent, partner in the marriage. Thus the ideal Jewish marriage is a triangle composed of two human beings and their Creator.

*It should be noted that the Jewish sources being accessed for this information also quote the Zohar for these wedding teachings ie the Kabbalah.

*** Note--the bride is taken to the groom. The groom does not come for the bride. Which is contrary to the claim of the parallel of this to Christ returning to rapture the church. While I am not going to cover all the ceremony and details, I will cover some very significant parts. ***

Many believe that Tuesday is the best day to be married because God said the third day was good twice, during creation, not just once like the other days. [23] From the Talmud, it is also said, "Wednesday is the appointed wedding-day for virgins, and Thursday for widows ". [22]

***That flies in the face of only God knowing the day or hour for the return of Christ. Some paralleling the rapture also state that the groom always came at midnight, therefore Christ will come at midnight, which again goes against that Scripture. Others state that the "catching away of the bride" or rapture is understood by knowing their Jewish roots which they believe means that Christ will come for His Bride on Rosh Hashanah. ***

Many marriages were arranged from childhood. The couple may not have met prior to the betrothal or wedding. The betrothal was a legal marriage and could only be dissolved by a formal divorce, yet the woman remained in her father's house. The betrothal constituted the actual "purchase" of the bride, and her eventual move to the groom's house, the "delivery" of the purchased "property." That was when the actual wedding took place. [1, 12]

*** Note: the marriage was formal at the point of the signed ketuba- marriage contract- which was signed at the betrothal, not at the wedding itself, and requires a divorce to break it. This is contrary to the rapture parallel which states that the wedding ceremony in Heaven-- after the rapture-- formalizes the marriage. The Jewish wedding considers the bride a wife BEFORE the wedding. That belief is also found in Deuteronomy.***

Historically, the mohar was the original purchase price of the bride paid by the father of the groom to the father of the bride. The marriage in those times was an agreement between families not two individuals. Until the Middle Ages, a marriage consisted of two ceremonies, with celebrations and an interval between. The betrothal and the later wedding. The wedding meant that the betrothed woman was brought with a colorful procession, from her father's house to the house of the groom. After the marriage was complete, the groom would have a small area or nook for his new bride in his father's house.

Part 2:
The division of marriage into the two events originated in very ancient times when the marriage was an outward purchase and because women were viewed as chattel. By talmudic times, a betrothal celebration followed the signing of the marriage contract (ketubah). The groom drinks and then the bride drinks from the wine as part of the betrothal ceremony. The groom gave the bride an object valued at less than a small coin and in the presence of two witnesses, declared: "Be thou consecrated to me, be thou betrothed to me, be thou my wife." The betrothal meant sanctification or setting apart and suggests a spiritualization of the original property transaction. [12]

*** Note the father 'sells' the bride to the groom. The groom does not redeem the bride. The bride's father arranges a dowry to give to the groom. It is a business transaction between the groom and or father of the groom and the father of the bride, although normally the bride gives consent. Who is the Bride of Christ's father?***

The wedding was about a year later, and the date was agreed upon in advance. The actual wedding was preceded by a lively procession-including the brides family and friends-- escorting the bride to the home of the groom, where the rest of the invited guests have assembled. [8] The huppah or marriage canopy was originally a decorated pavilion in the house of the groom or his father, where the seven blessings were recited over a cup of wine.

-...It has become customary for the groom to veil his bride prior to the Chupah ceremony...When the groom walks into the room escorted by all the men, it is the first time he and his bride have seen each other in a week. [9]

-It is customary for the Bride and Groom not to see each other for three days to a week before the wedding. The groom will not see the bride until just before the ceremony, at the veiling of the bride.[10a]

***Note, the wedding date was set and agreed upon by all involved, and the bride and groom saw each other between the betrothal and up until the week before the wedding. For that week they did not see each other. Contrary to what many proclaim as equivalent to Christ returning with a shout, and not knowing when, as a thief in the night. And contrary to the suggestion that the bride was waiting for a year with her wedding gown on...never knowing when he might arrive for her. And contrary for all Christians who not only have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which is the Spirit of Christ, we have ongoing communion with Him.

In other words we are not separated from having access to Him.

Heb 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Many are teaching that a shofar is sounded and a shout and such and the groom arrives at midnight to abduct the bride, but to date, not only have the Jewish sources researched not stated that as a practice, one specifically refuted that belief and wanted to know where the idea came from, as it was not a Jewish tradition.[2]The bride is not seen by the groom until AFTER she has arrived at the groom's father's house and the veiling of the bride takes place, after the receptions.

While the concept of abducting the bride is not found in any Jewish resources to date, the concept of abducting the bride was part of both Greek and Roman wedding rituals. Generally speaking the celebrations started at the bride's parents home and just before leaving for the groom's parents home, after the marriage ceremony, part of leaving was the bride being grabbed by the wrist and pulled from the parents, portraying the abduction and change from her childhood, while something was recited. A procession took place with family and friends lighting the way to the groom's residence, which was often within his parent's home. [21]

The Jewishencyclopedia.com has an article which states that: "...After betrothal the bride was subject to the same restrictions as a wife (Deut. xxii. 23-24)...central features in later times were the wedding-procession and the wedding-feast. The bridegroom in festive attire and accompanied by his friends went to the home of the bride, whence she, likewise in bridal garments, veiled, and accompanied by her companions, was led to the house of his parents (Isa. lxi. 10; Judges xiv. 10-11; Jer. ii. 32; Isa. xlix. 18; Ps. xlv. 8-15). The procession was enlivened with songs by, or in praise of, the bride and bridegroom, and was lighted, if in the evening, by torches or lamps (Jer. vii. 34, xvi. 9, xxv. 10; I Macc. ix. 37-39; Matt. xxv. 1-12; comp. Ps. xlv. and the Canticles, possibly representing such wedding-songs)...." [19]

Unfortunately none of the references, Scriptural or extra biblical state that the groom went and abducted the bride and the wedding date was unknown.. On the contrary, for example, Samson went with his parents to the woman's father's house and made a feast and they celebrated there for seven days. The Maccabees citation shows the bride and family traveling to the groom's home--during the day-- where he and his family and friends went out to meet them. Some cited references are merely speaking of the voice of the bride and groom no longer being there because God will deal with the disobedience. Also note, the bride was not surprised by the apparent arrival of the groom and friends, but was ready with all her companions. She knew he was coming and when, if that rendition is true. [19]

Some rapture parallels suggest that when the groom approached the bride's home, he would shout and blow the shofar (ram's horn trumpet) so that she had some warning to gather her belongings to take into the wedding chamber. The groom and his friends would come into the bride's house and get the bride and her bridesmaids. Again, to date, Jewish tradition does not contain these ideas or practices.

For Christians the Scriptures state that when Christ returns, there will be only a warning which happens, in a twinkling of an eye. There won't be time to gather anything. ***

Part 3:
Traditionally, a bride takes her first trip to the mikveh (ritual bath) the day before the wedding. This is when she is believed to be cleansed and this mikveh immersion signifies rebirth and reflects the upcoming change in personal status. [9, 11]

According to the Talmud, the ultimate source of all water is the river that emerged from Eden. By immersing themselves in the mikveh, people participate in the wholeness of Eden and are reborn as pure as Adam and Eve.

***If the bride did not know the date of the wedding, she would not have taken the mikveh the day before. Although the Jewish Wedding allegory replaces baptism with the mikveh, they are different procedures. Baptism requires a pastor or leader to submerge one backwards under the water [usually up to waist deep] and raise them up out of the water. Mikveh requires a deep [a little over chest deep] fresh water source in which one is completely naked and alone.. One must be physically clean before one does a mikveh and must shower with soap and water beforehand...It is a mystic experience and not a “baptism” as an outward expression from sin and into Messiah. It is a ritual process to purify one’s self from uncleanness [tamei]. This does not refer to a sinful condition, but Talmudically defined impurity. The purification system of the OT Temple is not rendered as a “mikveh” – although Judaism teaches this. Mikveh, in the OT text, is used only as a body of water. It appears to be a Rabbinic addition [middle ages].

Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

For Christians, we have no righteousness in ourselves and our righteousness comes from Christ. No ceremony can make us clean before God. It is only because of Christ that we become a sweet savor to God, when we accept Him as Savior and Lord, and are cleansed from all unrighteousness.

If the groom ie Christ has already come for the bride, how can the bride be purified after she is in heaven? Are the unclean to be in heaven?

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

The mortal and imperfect cannot enter heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:49-54 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. ***

The day of the wedding the groom and bride fast and repent of their sins, and they are guaranteed that if they do so, all their sins are forgiven.

Thus, they start out their new life together with a clean slate. [2, 3, 7, 8, 9 etc] [b]

*** To every Christian who has accepted that the rabbinic Jewish wedding parallels the rapture and the Bride of Christ and Christ--what does this say about our Lord and Savior if you want to make this parallel? ?

What Scriptures tells you that Jesus Christ needs to repent of His sins?

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
* meaning washed by Christ, the living and pure water.

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, ***

Quote:Part 4:
A traditional Jewish wedding begins with separate receptions for the groom and the bride. The marriage contract is often read at the grooms reception. Traditionally this is followed by a bedeken ceremony, where the groom covers the brides face with a veil. Some suggest it is to make sure the bride is the betrothed woman, and to prevent the sort of switch that Laban perpetrated against Jacob, in Genesis 29. The groom and his entourage enter the women's section, and the groom will place the veil on his wife. Others take a more mystical view.

***Jesus said Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
He doesn't need to check the bride. He already knows who the bride is. ***

The groom and wife are then separate again as preparations are completed. The groom then dons white garments and ashes are placed on his head to fulfill. "If I forget you, O Jerusalem... if I do not place Jerusalem above the crown of my joy..." (Psalms 137:5) They are reminded that their joy cannot be complete " until G-d's kingdom is complete, until all of Israel is brought back from exile and the Holy Temple is rebuilt."[8] White is reminiscent of shrouds (burial linens), and reminds the groom of the cycle of life, prompting him to repent, if he hasn't already. [8]

***If the bride arrives at the grooms home where they are put in separate rooms, and the groom goes to the brides room to put a veil on her after their separate receptions, then leaves her, again, what Scripture can this parallel? Aren't we to be with Jesus forevermore? Isn't this saying that the groom is not ready for the marriage ceremony, but must change to new clean white clothes, and if going by what some rapture parallels have taught, the bride arrived in her wedding gown--worn for a year....how clean would she be? If the groom is unready and needing to make the changes after the bride has arrived....isn't the parallel really stating the groom isn't fully ready for the bride? And isn't that contrary to the Scriptures concerning Christ coming back? It is we who are to be spiritually ready for Christ's return.***

The marriage ceremony is conducted under a huppah or marriage canopy, which is supposed to signify the new home they are creating, and that their home is to be open to others. Both the groom and the bride are escorted separately to the huppah by two escorts, which some suggest is paralleling Moses and Aaron, and Israel's marriage to God, and or "just as Adam and Eve were escorted by angels to their wedding."[8]

The groom "is brought to the chupah first, and the bride is brought to him, just as Eve was brought to Adam (Genesis 2:22). Eve, who was created later, was shown thereby to be the higher life form of the two, because the potential of future life lies with her. Therefore, Adam was not complete until Eve was brought to him" [8]

***Note--the bride is escorted to the waiting groom for the marriage ceremony. This does not parallel the Scriptures concerning Christ coming for His Bride. That aside from, Adam and Eve being married and escorted together by angels to their wedding, of which we have no record. The chuppah signifies that they create a new home TOGETHER - but we do not help create a new Home - God does. Jesus went to prepare a place for us, and also said there are many mansions. Is Jesus escorted to His Home to get ready?. ***

Technically, the couple were married if two proper witnesses observed them perform the ceremony together with complete consent. The bride circles the groom seven times. The groom places the ring on the bride's finger, reciting "You are hereby sanctified to me with this ring according to the Law of Moses and Israel." [8] The marriage contract is read at this time to show the distinction between this part of the ceremony and the next.

***Note If we belong to Jesus Christ, then what purpose is the wedding ceremony, with a wedding ring and contract? aren't we already covenanted with Him having been sealed by the Holy Spirit? Isn't His shed blood the symbol by which we know we are His? Aren't we already "contracted" to Christ through the New Covenant of His blood in which the Law now has no hold? We can only be sanctified by Christ. ***

The actual wedding, the second part of the Chupah Ceremony, is where, the Seven Blessings are recited. At most weddings, various Rabbis or relatives are called upon to recite the various blessings. Again, it starts with the blessing over wine. That is the first of the seven blessings...[8]

As stated previously, the seven nuptial blessings speak of paradise regained, the miracle of God's creation, and the creation of man and woman, so that mankind might endure. The sixth blessing refers to marriage in the scheme of creation...

The groom breaks a glass to remember that even during their most joyous occasions they must mourn the destruction of the Holy Temple. As mentioned above, they must always remember that God's kingdom is not complete until the Holy Temple is rebuilt. [8]

***Note This points to the fact that the cup of wine cannot be what Christ is giving the Bride for He is the Temple and was resurrected. God's Kingdom is not of this world, so a rebuilt temple is a moot point. God's Kingdom was never incomplete.***

The couple are escorted to a private room, which the groom has taken possession of earlier. The escorts stay outside the door for a few minutes and then go back to the celebrations. They are not fully married until this seclusion takes place. This is when the couple eats a small snack to break the pre-wedding fast, and then in a very short time -usually about a half hour- they rejoin the guests, the dance commences.... [8, 10a]

*** Note. The couple do NOT consummate the marriage as many are teaching in the parallel to the rapture. Again, the couple do not have sex at this time. They ate a snack and rejoined the guests for a meal, dancing and celebration.

Some are teaching that the groom would take his bride, immediately after getting her, to the wedding chamber where they would spend seven days. The groom's friend would wait outside the door and when the marriage was consummated, the groom would tell his friend through the door. The friend would then announce it to the assembled guests. The guests would celebrate for seven days until the bride and bridegroom emerged from the wedding chamber. This is so blatantly false that one wonders who invented these things and with such bias.***

The wedding feast follows which is a commanded meal, accompanied by good food, dancing, and singing, where it is a commandment to help the couple rejoice. After the feast, the grace after meals is recited over one cup of wine, and the seven blessings over another. The two cups of wine are poured into a third, from which bride and groom drink. For the next week the couple traditionally feast at the homes of friends and relatives, repeating the seven blessings after each meal. [8]

***Any ideas how this parallels Christ and Scripture? As stated previously, the seven blessings have nothing to do with Jesus Christ or His return. If they are said over the cups of wine, then the significance of the cups means nothing to Christians as well.

The bible tells us not to add to scripture, or take away from it. Once you start doing this you are walking on thin ice and you are leaving yourself wide open to error.

Nowhere does the Bible tell us to interpret scripture by looking to man's traditions.

It is only God's word that is inspired, not traditions. You can't cherry pick parts of this parallel and leave other bits out as those do who are promoting this teaching. It is no different than those who claim the talmud and kabbalah can be used by believers. They neglect to inform that the writers rejected Jesus Christ, denigrate and blaspheme Him because they do not believe He is the Messiah and God manifest in the flesh. That means beliefs and interpretations are going to be far different than those who believe Christ and read the OT in light of the NT, which is fully rejected by those who believe the Talmud and kabbalah.

When this tradition is held up to Scripture - it fails miserably - it is not compatible with Scripture and therefore not compatible with Christian beliefs.

Titus 1 13- 14 KJV
This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

thank you for explaining the admin editing point
it seemed at the time
that one could not edit something UNTIL 20 minutes had passed
thats why i could not understand why i could not edit postings

i have e mailed CCF Tapes Chichester who supply teaching resources from Roger Price
and have asked if they can forward information/source as to where Roger obtained his information
regarding Ancient Wedding customs of israel

there are however difficulties in interpretation
as some indicators may point more to the Second coming of Christ or the rapture
but for instance - jesus often used parables - of everyday things - that his hearers, particulary his own countrymen
could understand - these everyday customs and ways if life - were often the source of spiritual truths he sought to convey

the parable of the 10 virgins is one - in how it speaks of His second Coming

and if one does not hold to a rapture incident - then anything that may seem to relate to it
would be problematic as the thoughts may well be pushed and interrpreted as the second Coming

but i have not yet looked at the rapture thread to see
what views are held

but in time i will look closely at what it is you have just forward by way of your posting

take care
and may god bless you greatly.

(06-19-2011 01:37 PM)chabod Wrote: [ -> ]thank you for explaining the admin editing point
it seemed at the time
that one could not edit something UNTIL 20 minutes had passed
thats why i could not understand why i could not edit postings

Oh my, It never even occurred to me that it could be interpreted that way. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Quote:there are however difficulties in interpretation
as some indicators may point more to the Second coming of Christ or the rapture
but for instance - jesus often used parables - of everyday things - that his hearers, particulary his own countrymen
could understand - these everyday customs and ways if life - were often the source of spiritual truths he sought to convey

To me, what's important is fully aligning our understanding to the Scriptures, not aligning the Scriptures to our understandings or beliefs.
I agree Jesus used parables, and prophetically so. In fact those who rejected Him could not understand the parables. That's an important point because our own understandings can only come, not by man's interpretations or guesses, but the Holy Spirit giving understanding.

One the things that struck me in your posts is the idea of

Quote:whilst absent from earth - in fact the bride in heaven makes herself ready - Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. note past tense - made - whilst in heaven

Whilst IN heaven, having been raptured - she prepares a wedding gown for HER RETURN to earth WITH her now husband. Part of the making heself ready is the "disrobing" of those works done whilst a believer on earth that are works of the flesh, done in the flesh and not part of gods will. These are burned up, thus the garment is purified - got ready.

Whilst the work that were done ON earth before the rapture - reward is given - a different and opposite adornment - for her gown, with which she returns as His bride with him to earth.

The Scriptures tell us that corruption cannot enter heaven, therefore the body is purified before it can enter heaven, not after:

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1Co 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jud 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Jud 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

The righteousness and purifying of the saints, is because and only because of Christ, as I see it in the Scriptures. He is our righteousness. 'She' didn't do it, and she was changed by Christ, and all glory goes to what He did, because He is our Savior and Lord.

I would like to see the correlation of Scriptures to your specific quotes above, if you don't mind.

Blessings

2Cr 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body,(literally through his body) according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad. ( done in his body - the body that is Christ’s church whilst here on earth before the tribulation and his Second Coming)

This in 2 Cor 5 is a judgement seat, but not the judgement seat that is called the Great White Throne Judgement which takes place as recorded in Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

The 2 Cor 5 judgement is a judgement of believers - the word WE at the start of that verse is referred to 25 times in Corinthians by Paul and always refers to the church.

The judgement seat mention there is called the bema seat …indicative of a small raised platform on which a judge is seated … and is not the seat recorded in Rev 20. They are distinguished one from another in terms of one being small the other being great. The word for this place is not bema seat, but it is thronos.

The judgement involving believers in Cor 5 is not about their salvation, it is about their works, judging the fruit or otherwise of their life whilst in Christ.

This is not the great white throne judgement of unbelievers. For the judgement of the believer as a sinner has already taken place in the past , there is no further judgement to come.

But the quality and authenticity of their work (life) IS judged. It is possible to obtain a100 fold -Gen 26:12 ¶ Then Isaac sowed in that land, and received in the same year an hundredfold: and the LORD blessed him.

It is the production of, the fruit of the word in our lives that determines our reward - Mar 4:8 And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, and some sixty, and some an hundred.

1Cr 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Cr 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 1Cr 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 1Cr 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 1Cr 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (burnt up , judged by fire)

The rapture takes place before our works are judged, so we are not talking about a judgement that prevents us going to heaven - Nothing shall separate us.

The great white throne is not the judgement of believers it is the judgement of unbelievers. Unbelievers do not recieve a reward, they do not enter or inherit the kingdom - His reward is WITH Him, we are his reward - we are presented to the Father - When he returns to earth WITH His bride, He hathers all those who have come to faith in the Tribulation, though His own work and own testimony, and those worked through His 2 witnesses and the other 144000 who are His.

The dead works will be cleansed, the bride prepared and preparing - the believers are not judged in terms of salvation, they are judged regarding the production, the quality of the word in their life.

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