(08-05-2009 06:39 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:grafted:
Luke 5:36-39
Referencing the new v old covenants?
Luk 5:36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
Luk 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.
I am deeply curious about how the above reads to others. I am not sure the meaning I derive from it is the only view that can be taken, and I like to explore the side-roads, just in case I might be missing something.
(08-05-2009 06:39 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:grafted:
Luke 5:36-39
Referencing the new v old covenants?
Luk 5:36 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old.
Luk 5:37 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
Luk 5:38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.
That is an interesting view, never looked at it that way before. The way
I always viewed it was the difference between the new/old covenants, for it you attempt to cover the old with the new then you tear (rent) both. Similar for attempting to put the new inside the old container or within its constraints of legalism, in-which the new would break the old containers/barriers. The new has to be put into a new container/body/spirit; like that of a child. If it is corrupted by the old, then their is no desire for the new.
Similar to what we see with a lot of the HRM nonsense, everyone wanting to go back to the Old, as if the New wasn't good enough for them with grace vs ritual, salvation vs sacrifice.
I like the "explanation"
not to put new wine(Holy Spirit) in old bottles(old men or flesh)
but is n t it the H Spirit who makes the old ...new?
God never gives the H Spirit to a unrepenting person.
so the "bottle has to be "new' to recieve Him.
EMJE
Hi Everyone:
Excellent verses, from my studies I would say that the context of Chapter 5, deals with “Righteousness” through “faith” verses “works” and the “law”.
Other verses above 36 – 39 and earlier chapters relate to the outset of Christ ministry, for Jesus was healing the sick, cleansing the sick, eating with sinners and furthermore, in the synagogue quoting Isa.49: 8, 9 & 61:1 and proclaiming fulfillment in Him.
(Jade’s paraphrase) Unheard of that time, talk about nuts, who was this Jesus? How dare he provoke the religious authorities, and usurp the law by proclaiming faith not works. He was considered unholy because He would hang with sinners. In as much as telling those that gathered that they were forgiven through faith! But to those leaders whose ears were not opened, righteousness came from the law and works of one kind or another. Unfortunately seems like nothing much hasn’t changed. IMO, Chapter 5: 36-39 can be referenced within OT:
Gen. 3: 21. Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin and clothed them.
Isa.65: 8. Thus says the LORD: “As the new wine is found in the cluster, And one says, “Do not destroy it. For a blessing is in it.” So I will do for my servant’s sake. That I may not destroy them all.
Isa.63:3. I have trodden the winepress alone, And from the peoples no one was with Me, For I have trodden them in My anger, And trampled them in My fury; Their blood is sprinkled upon My garments, And I have stained all My robes.
Psalm 23: 5. You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies, You anoint my head with oil; my cup runs over, 6) Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me, All the days of my life: And I will dwell in the House of the LORD
Lords Blessings,
Howdy sheep wrecked and everyone:
Thank you for your questions; this has caused me to dig deeper into the topic, but I hope this won't cause me to ramble on but to be concise.
First I must yell out a big WOW, we serve a AWESOME GOD!!, (thanks for indulging me), okay here I go;
1. Definition of Righteousness (Encyclopedic Living Webster) n. rights which accords with facts, property, or cash. The right hand, direction, or side; a pair of shoes, gloves or the like. agree with right, acting in accordance with morality, upright, v. - to bring or restore to an upright position, to do justice, to relieve from wrong.
2. Hebrew Strongs Concordance, 6666 & 6664 tsedeg & tsdaqah 6666; rightness, virtue, beneficence-righteousness, 6664; the right, equity, just, prosperity
3. Greek Strongs 1341, 1342, 1343, & 1344, dikaiukrisia - judgement - a just sentence; dikaios - holy, innocent; dikaiosune - just or incorrect, free, justly, be righteous.
It's interesting that Jesus used words like wine, a new garment, tear, new piece, spilled, ruined, no, one, drunk, immediately, desires new, says, old, and better, in this parable to illustrate a point.
Wine signifies in OT aspects of scarifice, refinement, offerings, blood, redemption, wrath, & in the NT, mystery, Lord's last supper, Cross, forgiveness, gospel, and sin. (Rom. 4:6; just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.)
Num. 15:5,7,& 10; and 1/4 of a hin of wine as a drink offering you shall prepare with the burnt offering or the sacrifice, for each lamb. 7) And as a drink offering you shall offer 1/3 hin of wine as a sweet aroma to the Lord. 10) and you shall bring as the drink offering half a hin of wine as an offering make by fire, a sweet aroma to the Lord.
Isa. 25: 6 - 9; 6) And in the mountain, The Lord of hosts will make for all people a feast of choice pieces, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of well-refined wine, 7) And He will destroy on this mountain the surface of the covering cast over all people. And the veil that is spread over all nations. 8) He will swallow up death forever, And the Lord God will wipe away tears from all faces; The rebuke of His people He will take away from all the earth; For the LORD has spoken. 9) And it will be said in that day; Behold this is our God: We have waited for Him, We will be glad and rejoice in His salvation
Isa 55:1; Ho! Everyone who thirsts, Come to the waters; And you who have no money, Come, buy, and eat. Yes come, buy wine and milk, without money and without price (Jade saying....Yeah!!!!!!)
Isa54:17; No weapon formed against you shall prosper, And every tongue which rises against you in judgement You shall condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord. And their righteousness is from Me', Say the LORD.
Ps. 89:14; Righteousness and justice are the foundation of Your Throne; Mercy and truth go before Your face.
Joel 3:18; And it will come to pass in that day That the mountains shall drip with new wine, The hills shall flow with milk And all the brooks of Judah shall be with water A fountain shall flow from the house of the LORD and the Valley of Acacias.
Zec.3:8, & 9; Hear, O Joshua, the high priest, You and Your companions who sit before you, For they are a wondrous sign: For behold, I am bringing forth My Servant the BRANCH 9) For behold the stone That I have laid before Joshua: Upon the stone are seven eyes: Behold I will engrave it inscription Says the LORD of hosts And I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
Ps. 98:9; For He is coming to judge the earth. With righteousness He shall judge the world and peoples with equity.
There are so many more verses, but my point was that God revealed His righteousness through Christ and the Cross.
My reconciliation is from the work of Jesus Christ on the cross. Jesus is a propitiation through His shedding of blood as explained by Paul in Roman's Chapter 3. Christ paid the final sin for all, therefore He has reconciled all to whom believe and place trust and faith in Him, hence, God see's me through a prism of His righteousness. Christ paid my price for sin!
The OT law points us to Christ, yet many rejected. Jesus Christ is the manifestation of an invisible God (Col.Chpt.1 & 2), and the first born over all creation, and a High Priest for those who believe. Abraham believed God and willingly placed Issac on the altar, therefore God reckoned him righteous.
I think Jesus in Luke 5: 36 - 39 is saying to the scribes that He is the new wine offering that will be poured out as a final sacrifice. The wine parable was a good visual because wine was a portion included in sacrifice. Yet he was rejected, He challenged their authority, IMO the law served a purpose for it affirmed their own righteousness. In essence Jesus was confirming that yoking old and new wine doesn't work, many will still prefer the old.
Thank goodness freedom from the law/works has come from an adoption into Christ's Righteousness. Hope this explanation is concise.
God bless, Jade