SeekGod.ca Discussion Forum

On a couple of Sunday mornings I've turned on my TV hoping to find some good teaching or at least a thought provoking message only to find some pretty meager fare

Maybe this has been discussed on here somewhere, but what is up with "Apostle Ron" Carpenter (I think)? It seems to me that he makes alot of noise but is really not saying much of value.

It also bothers me that he is calling himself an apostle. A friend of mine subsequently said this is another movement. Feedback please.

Yikes

SW - I attended a pentecostal church for a time back in the early 90's, but I didn't see anything like this. There were some things I didn't agree with, but ultimately (as I saw others have mentioned in another discussion) I was expected to speak in tongues as evidence of the Holy Spirit. At the time I thought that if they believe in such gifts why would everyone have to "produce" the same gift?

Anyway I don't usually watch this stuff & the approach was news to me - & not the Good News, is this an actual organization-if so who's involved- or are there just separate individuals cashing in on their own local markets? Is it like the Name it-claim it people?
Thanks!

(08-11-2009 12:05 AM)Izzy Wrote: [ -> ]SW - I attended a pentecostal church for a time back in the early 90's, but I didn't see anything like this. There were some things I didn't agree with, but ultimately (as I saw others have mentioned in another discussion) I was expected to speak in tongues as evidence of the Holy Spirit. At the time I thought that if they believe in such gifts why would everyone have to "produce" the same gift?

Anyway I don't usually watch this stuff & the approach was news to me - & not the Good News, is this an actual organization-if so who's involved- or are there just separate individuals cashing in on their own local markets? Is it like the Name it-claim it people?
Thanks!

Word of Faith is the name it/claim it group. But every venue of Pentecostal, Charismatic, Assembly of God, etc all cross over and interweave their teachings and doctrines. Most of these denominations are single church communities with no overseer, no authority, no head "office". They are completely at the mercy of the "Pastor" who is perceived as spiritual and visionary. And yes, they have their own "market". It's called bleeding the sheep to build their own little kingdoms. The Pentecostal denom does have some kind of organizational system, but many Pentecostal churches are separate from that.

Extremes of prophecy, tongues and gifting range from mild to raging idiocy aka Todd Bentley, to the insanity of the likes of Copeland, Hagin, Roberts, Duplantis [who Carpenter affiliates with as shown on his website] are what this movement is fueled with.

I was involved deeply in this mess back in 1995-2000 and the extreme stuff that Carpenter is into was part of my life back then, as well as every speaker/healer/prophet that was brought in from all over the country. I have only seen things get worse over the years since then. Carpenter is just one of thousands.

(08-09-2009 11:12 PM)Izzy Wrote: [ -> ]On a couple of Sunday mornings I've turned on my TV hoping to find some good teaching or at least a thought provoking message only to find some pretty meager fare

Maybe this has been discussed on here somewhere, but what is up with "Apostle Ron" Carpenter (I think)? It seems to me that he makes alot of noise but is really not saying much of value.

It also bothers me that he is calling himself an apostle. A friend of mine subsequently said this is another movement. Feedback please.

Yikes

Hi Izzy,

You make a good point, and I'm glad it bothers you when Ron or anyone call themselves apostles. The use of titles is often self exaltation, which takes the focus off of Jesus and puts it on man. When man uses titles like apostle, prophet, etc. They do so to establish hierarchy, and thus trying to show themselves at the top of a pyramid as the most mature in Christ. When they display such, it actually shows their immaturity in Christ and His word. Jesus clearly demonstrated over and over, that if you desire to be the best leader on the planet, that you have to be the best servant. Jesus himself was and is, obviously, the best servant on the planet, and He is the Lord of lord and the King of kings.

Matthew 23:12 (New King James Version)
12 And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

Philippians 2:1-8 (New King James Version)
1 Therefore if there is any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and mercy, 2 fulfill my joy by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3 Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. 4 Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others. 5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

Good discussion Izzy, Thanks

Love ya,
Chris