SeekGod.ca Discussion Forum

I found this while browsing around. This is what so many Pentecostal churches preach. I thought maybe we could go through each stepwith scriptures for or against what this declares and whether it is misleading to new believers.


We believe the bible to be the inspired and only infallible and authoritative Word of God.
We believe in the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ (God in the flesh)
We believe in His virgin birth, in His miracles, in His vicarious atoning death, in His bodily resurrection and in His personal future to this earth in power and glory to rule over the nation.
We believe that the only means of being cleansed from sin is through repentance and faith in the precious blood of Christ
We believe in the obedience of being baptized in water according to Matthew 28:19
We believe in being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ according to Acts 2:38, so that our old man is crucified and the body of sin can be destroyed according to Romans 6:3-6
We believe that regeneration by the Holy Spirit is essential for personal salvation.
We believe that the baptism of the Holy Spirit according to Acts 2:4, is given to believers who believe, confess, repent and are baptized.
We believe that every member must be submitted and connected to the visionary and the vision, which is ordained by God.
We believe that there is power in prayer

(08-10-2009 12:31 PM)Mark Wrote: [ -> ]I found this while browsing around. This is what so many Pentecostal churches preach. I thought maybe we could go through each stepwith scriptures for or against what this declares and whether it is misleading to new believers.


We believe the bible to be the inspired and only infallible and authoritative Word of God.
We believe in the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ (God in the flesh)
We believe in His virgin birth, in His miracles, in His vicarious atoning death, in His bodily resurrection and in His personal future to this earth in power and glory to rule over the nation.
We believe that the only means of being cleansed from sin is through repentance and faith in the precious blood of Christ
We believe in the obedience of being baptized in water according to Matthew 28:19
We believe in being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ according to Acts 2:38, so that our old man is crucified and the body of sin can be destroyed according to Romans 6:3-6
We believe that regeneration by the Holy Spirit is essential for personal salvation.
We believe that the baptism of the Holy Spirit according to Acts 2:4, is given to believers who believe, confess, repent and are baptized.
We believe that every member must be submitted and connected to the visionary and the vision, which is ordained by God.
We believe that there is power in prayer

Statements of faith really do not mean much. They are something that people like to use for a handle to describe their belief system, but often statements of faith are what the organization wants people to believe that these statements are their foundation. Too often, the statement of faith is useless compared to what is actually taught.

As you brought up the whole Pentecostal venue [which includes charismatc, word of faith, assembly of God, full gospel, four square denoms], then it's wise to dig into the basics of what is really expressed by those who founded these denominations.

Charles Parham is the organizer of most of the denominations listed above [word of faith was spawned off charismatic/pentecostal]. Mr Parham was not a true believer - being a mason, a member of the KKK, and an accused child molester. Obviously this is gross denial of the Deity of Christ, which makes all the other "faith" statements listed above as moot points.

One cannot take an evil tree and produce good fruit. God said so and He is always right

Vic has a ton of articles on the whole charis product. What a huge basketful of stinking, rotting fruit

http://www.seekgod.ca/topicwaves.htm

Quote:We believe that the baptism of the Holy Spirit according to Acts 2:4, is given to believers who believe, confess, repent and are baptized.
We believe that every member must be submitted and connected to the visionary and the vision, which is ordained by God.

If one reads past Acts 2:4--including when the 3000 came to Christ just after that event....we see that they did not speak in tongues. The Holy Spirit indwells all who come to Christ. That is the promise. And the proof one belongs to Christ. But the proof is not in speaking in tongues. The proof is that relationship, of which the fruit of the Spirit is part of the evidence.

Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

1Jn 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

1 Corinthians 2:10-14 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

What visionary and what vision is it that every member "must be submitted and connected to"??? What scripture speaks of a visionary and their vision that all must be submitted and connected to?

We belong to Jesus Christ, no other. He leads us and directs our steps according to His purposes.

We believe that every member must be submitted and connected to the visionary and the vision, which is ordained by God.


Stref:

this sound rather like heavy shepherding, oppressing the people with human domination in the name of pastoral care

We believe that there is power in prayer

Stref: no there is power in christ, prayer is merely relating with Him. if we ask for something he will not let us have our prayer has no power, and trying to make things come to pass by prayer is often the sin of psychic prayer

as for creeds in general. they are not what christians believe, they are what they think they SHOULD believe. What we truly believe is shown in our daily lives as manifested in our careless words and spontaneous reactions. clinging to a creed to repress our own inner state is not faith, it is extremely dangerous, being legalist, even if the inner state is rank unbelief.

commitment to a doctrine is not the same as believing it. I am convicned that fruit and belief go together. if our fruit is bad then we dont believe the gospel even though we assent to it vigourously and even go so far as to reach it in the streets oir wherever

(08-10-2009 12:31 PM)Mark Wrote: [ -> ]I found this while browsing around. This is what so many Pentecostal churches preach. I thought maybe we could go through each stepwith scriptures for or against what this declares and whether it is misleading to new believers.


We believe the bible to be the inspired and only infallible and authoritative Word of God.
We believe in the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ (God in the flesh)
We believe in His virgin birth, in His miracles, in His vicarious atoning death, in His bodily resurrection and in His personal future to this earth in power and glory to rule over the nation.
We believe that the only means of being cleansed from sin is through repentance and faith in the precious blood of Christ
We believe in the obedience of being baptized in water according to Matthew 28:19

We believe in being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ according to Acts 2:38, so that our old man is crucified and the body of sin can be destroyed according to Romans 6:3-6

We believe that regeneration by the Holy Spirit is essential for personal salvation.

We believe that the baptism of the Holy Spirit according to Acts 2:4, is given to believers who believe, confess, repent and are baptized.
We believe that every member must be submitted and connected to the visionary and the vision, which is ordained by God.
We believe that there is power in prayer

Hi Mark,

I think this is "Oneness Pentecostal"? The tip off is their Baptism formula that I bolded in you're OP. They do not Baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but in Jesus name only. They do not believe in the Trinity. I know relativly little about Pentecostals in general, but have learned a bit about the particular branch called, "Oneness'. "Oneness Pentecostals", seem to fit the the Mold of Cult, and are considered a Cult by "Carm", (Christian Apologetics Research Ministry).

Here is a snippet from Carm, which discusses this group, and you'll find lots of info. about them that may answer some of your questions, and other info. on various groups, here:

[mod note: sorry, galout - I had to remove the links - the forum rules do not allow for anyone to put in a link until they have 50 posts - to keep spammers away ]

Quote:In addition, oneness theology also maintains that baptism is a necessary part of salvation; that is, in order to be saved, one must be baptized, by immersion. If you are not baptized you cannot be saved. However, not only must baptism be by immersion, it must also be administered with the formula "In Jesus’ name" rather than the formula "In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" which is mentioned in Matt. 28:19. Finally, this baptism must be administered by a duly ordained minister of a church that maintains oneness theology: United Pentecostal, United Apostolic, etc.

(10-13-2009 05:22 PM)Strefanash Wrote: [ -> ]We believe that every member must be submitted and connected to the visionary and the vision, which is ordained by God.

When pressed one finds that they are referring to their own "prophets" and their own vision. the ASSUMPTION is that they are also God's Vision.

Read Deuteronomy 13. not every vision is from god even if from a prophet.

That sin why they are called FALSE PROPHETS.

They also like to quote

Psalms 105:15 * Saying , Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.


Completely missing the point that this was a specific statement God made to the kings involving Abraham and Isaac, not to harm them or their wives.

David was not making a future statement but one involving a specific past event.

And their is a big difference between one whom GOD says is annointed verses men claiming it themselves.

I was still in the charismatic movement when Kim Clement was just getting started. His false prophecies have long since been exposed and yet people still follow these blind guides.

(01-29-2010 12:51 PM)Scotchman Wrote: [ -> ]They also like to quote

Psalms 105:15 * Saying , Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.


Completely missing the point that this was a specific statement God made to the kings involving Abraham and Isaac, not to harm them or their wives.

David was not making a future statement but one involving a specific past event.

I am not quite following your line of reasoning. Why would you apply this to Abraham and Isaac when David was referring to King Saul? Remember that he had the opportunity to kill Saul, but said he would not because God had anointed him king.

Where does it state that Abraham and Isaac were anointed by God to protect them and their wives?

Quote:I was still in the charismatic movement when Kim Clement was just getting started. His false prophecies have long since been exposed and yet people still follow these blind guides.

Ahh, yes ... I was also a charismatic for several years. That is why some of your concepts sound so familiar

(01-29-2010 11:50 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: [ -> ]I am not quite following your line of reasoning. Why would you apply this to Abraham and Isaac when David was referring to King Saul? Remember that he had the opportunity to kill Saul, but said he would not because God had anointed him king.

Where does it state that Abraham and Isaac were anointed by God to protect them and their wives?

Psalms 105:9-15 * Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac; * And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant: * Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance: * When they were but a few men in number; yea, very few, and strangers in it. * When they went from one nation to another, from one kingdom to another people; * He suffered no man to do them wrong: yea, he reproved kings for their sakes; * Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.

The first half of this Psalm is all about this incident. And The context continues further down the Psalm. Verse 15 is referring to God's word to Abimelech and the Pharaoh who are referred to in verse 14, not by name, but reading the stories in Genesis completes the story.


Psalms 105:9-15 is a complete section in context.

I hope this explains my thought?

(01-30-2010 12:35 PM)Scotchman Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-29-2010 11:50 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: [ -> ]I am not quite following your line of reasoning. Why would you apply this to Abraham and Isaac when David was referring to King Saul? Remember that he had the opportunity to kill Saul, but said he would not because God had anointed him king.

Where does it state that Abraham and Isaac were anointed by God to protect them and their wives?

Psalms 105:9-15 * Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac; * And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant: * Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance: * When they were but a few men in number; yea, very few, and strangers in it. * When they went from one nation to another, from one kingdom to another people; * He suffered no man to do them wrong: yea, he reproved kings for their sakes; * Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.

The first half of this Psalm is all about this incident. And The context continues further down the Psalm. Verse 15 is referring to God's word to Abimelech and the Pharaoh who are referred to in verse 14, not by name, but reading the stories in Genesis completes the story.


Psalms 105:9-15 is a complete section in context.

I hope this explains my thought?

Yes, thank you for the clarification

If you are going to make a statement, it really helps if you post the text along with it