SeekGod.ca Discussion Forum

Many issues of interest were raised by your comments. I would like to ask some questions for clarification
1. What part of the Law did Jesus add to?
2. What part of the Law did Jesus take away from?
3. Why do you imply that all Israel rejected Gods instructions (Torah)? because of the following verse prophecies differently
Jer 31:33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time," declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
Rom 11:1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew.
4. Should we be grafted into Israel per Rom 11?
5. Arn't the covenant and the Law (Torah) two different things? For example: a covenant = pledge. Law (Torah)= terms of the pledge. or His Covenant = His Pledge. Law (Torah) our terms in our heart.
5. Where did Jesus state that He changed the Sabbath?
6. Where does it state in the Torah "that keepers of the Law remain in their tents on the Sabbath"
7 Where in the Messianic message do they advocate "free to sin"? That would be advocating lawlessness
8. What is your definition "fulfilled"? An example of mine would be is that if I drive a vehicle with a license, I fulfilled the law and I did it perfectly. I sure did not replace, do away, or change it
9. In Jer 31:33 "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts" Is the word "Law" mean Torah?

I would like to respond to some of your questions and comments, answering #3 and 4:

Quote:3. Why do you imply that all Israel rejected Gods instructions (Torah)? because of the following verse prophecies differently
Jer 31:33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time," declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

The nation of Israel rejected the old covenant, which is why it was broken. Jeremiah 31:31,32 clearly shows that the old covenant was replaced by the new and Hebrews 8 goes into detail as to how this was accomplished. Please read the following link which answers your question indepth:

http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=12

Quote:Rom 11:1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew.

God did not reject those of Israel who would choose Christ. The Gospel was to the Jews, they were not rejected as far as salvation goes. This verse does not mean that all of national Israel will be saved. The OT and Paul clearly state that a remnant of the Jews will be saved.

Please see this link for further information:

http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=329

Quote:4. Should we be grafted into Israel per Rom 11?

We are grafted into Christ, not into Israel. There is no longer an ethnic nation - those who are true believers are a holy nation - spiritually in Christ.

Please see this link for more information:

http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=276

Quote: Many issues of interest were raised by your comments. I would like to ask some questions for clarification

*****As I stated to you stormy, you have not brought anything new in the way of questions or comments. It would have been appreciated if you had taken the time to read the forums, and then considered answering or posting to the specific and appropriate threads.*****

Quote:1. What part of the Law did Jesus add to? 2. What part of the Law did Jesus take away from?

Taken from various threads which you should have read: http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=61 http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=203 http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=206 http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=12

http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=29 http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=77

When He said "it has been said, but I say unto you..." He was in fact bringing in the New Covenant and changing the Law-

When the woman was caught in the act of adultery---by the Mosaic law ---she should have been stoned and also the man who was committing adultery with her---but she wasn't and Jesus said- "Go and sin no more". All those who did not stone her then--also broke the Mosaic law.

Joh 8:3-11
(3) And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
(4) They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.(5) Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
(6) This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
(7) So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.(8) And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
(9) And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
(10) When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
(11) She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

No longer could it be that they were judge of sin and then carrying out the sentence. Instead it became a very personal issue, and that was --each of us is guilty and responsible before Him for our own sins. He was transitioning from the sacrficial system to His final sacrfice for all sins, and He had the authority and showed it--that He alone could forgive sins.

So, did anyone break the Mosaic Law? Did the accusers who caught her in the act, break the law by not stoning her and the man with her, which should have been done? Did Jesus break the Mosaic Law?

That Jesus showed mercy and that He alone can forgive and changed the law in favor of that. Touching the dead, eating with the unclean, "samaritans", etc.

We also know that He did in fact change some of the application of the Mosaic law--which we know came down from God. So we know He also had the authority to change it, and also make new commandments.

Mat 5:27-28
(27) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
(28) But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

See Matthew 5:22-44 for more...Matthew 12:36

Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Joh 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Jesus constantly forgave sins--even before He was crucified, and that is not in Torah. But it is in the New Covenant because of Him.

Lev 4:20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them

Lev 4:26 And he shall burn all his fat upon the altar, as the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall make an atonement for him as concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him

Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

2Ch 29:24 And the priests killed them, and they made reconciliation with their blood on the altar, to make an atonement for all Israel: for the king commanded that the burnt offering and the sin offering should be made for all Israel.
Heb 10:1-4

(1) For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
(2) For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
(3) But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
(4) For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. ...Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

Heb 10:10-12
(10) By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
(11) And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
(12) But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Quote:3. Why do you imply that all Israel rejected Gods instructions (Torah)? because of the following verse prophecies differently
...
Rom 11:1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew.

It says Israel was blinded IN PART. In Part means not all were rejected, not all will perish and not all will be saved. In part means that all the Jews who came to and will come to Christ were there because God had not cast them away but offered salvation to ALL mankind. Again, if you had taken the time to read, we wouldn't be restating what is said in many threads.

Quote:4. Should we be grafted into Israel per Rom 11?

Discussed in Partakers of the "commonwealth of Israel" or grafted into "the body of Christ"?

http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=276

Quote:5. Arn't the covenant and the Law (Torah) two different things? For example: a covenant = pledge. Law (Torah)= terms of the pledge. or His Covenant = His Pledge. Law (Torah) our terms in our heart.

Discussed in Does Jesus bring a new Torah with the New Covenant? http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=29 and others listed above

Quote:5. Where did Jesus state that He changed the Sabbath?

Discussed in Keep the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday & Rest in Christ

http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=65

Quote:6. Where does it state in the Torah "that keepers of the Law remain in their tents on the Sabbath"

It doesn't say "keepers of the Law"....it was the command given to the children of Israel.

Exo 16:29 See, for the LORD has given you the sabbath, therefore he gives you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide you every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

As discussed in Keep the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday & Rest in Christ

http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.p...65&page=10 see post #95

Quote:7 Where in the Messianic message do they advocate "free to sin"? That would be advocating lawlessness

That is what is being said to Christians. Christians do not believe it but are accused of it.

As discussed in Those antinomian christians... http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=206

Quote:8. What is your definition "fulfilled"? An example of mine would be is that if I drive a vehicle with a license, I fulfilled the law and I did it perfectly. I sure did not replace, do away, or change it

Quote: 9. In Jer 31:33 "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts" Is the word "Law" mean Torah?

Discussed in http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=63 http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=77 http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=29 http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=61

Anything not specifically answered---PLEASE--take it individually to the appropriate existing thread. This thread is merely to direct you to the appropriate discussions already in progress. This thread is closed for that reason. 14547

Please use them to answer or respond if you have anything further to discuss on any of these topics. 7143

stormy

sheep wrecked

Vic