SeekGod.ca Discussion Forum

Hi,
As FFOZ attempts to lull people back to sleep on their own web site and on other blogs, can someone please explain the Kabbalistic elements and symbolism of FFOZ’s Vine of David logo. (as simply as possible please )

Keter, the mystical role of the hebrew letter Yod and possibly why they are linked together.

The actual logo is on the Vine of David web page. This is the description of it in their own words.

Vine of David Logo
The Vine of David logo depicts a crown (representing keter) intersected by the letter "yod," which is both the first letter in the name of HaShem and the first letter in the name of Yeshua. According to Jewish mysticism, the letter yod represents the first vessel of God's expression to receive the light emanating from God. This vessel was "in the beginning" with God. The tip of the Yod reaches to the keter, and the bottom rests on the arch of the earth, bridging the distance between heaven above and earth below.

Thank you

(07-19-2009 09:23 PM)Mistle Wrote: [ -> ]Hi,
As FFOZ attempts to lull people back to sleep on their own web site and on other blogs, can someone please explain the Kabbalistic elements and symbolism of FFOZ’s Vine of David logo. (as simply as possible please )

Keter, the mystical role of the hebrew letter Yod and possibly why they are linked together.

The actual logo is on the Vine of David web page. This is the description of it in their own words.

Vine of David Logo
The Vine of David logo depicts a crown (representing keter) intersected by the letter "yod," which is both the first letter in the name of HaShem and the first letter in the name of Yeshua. According to Jewish mysticism, the letter yod represents the first vessel of God's expression to receive the light emanating from God. This vessel was "in the beginning" with God. The tip of the Yod reaches to the keter, and the bottom rests on the arch of the earth, bridging the distance between heaven above and earth below.

Thank you

The entire description as you have it there, is straight from the zohar, the kabbalah "holy book" dealing with the sefirotic tree only incorporating Jesus into it. Obviously, Jesus is not depicted in kabbalah - He is added in by Messianics who strive to take the occultism of kab and stick Jesus into it to "purify" it - gak

In Wikipedia it describes Keter as this from Kabbalah…

“Keter ("Crown" in Hebrew: כתר) also known as Kether, is the topmost of the Sephirot of the Tree of life in Kabbalah. Since its meaning is "crown", it is interpreted as both the "topmost" of the Sephirot and the "regal crown" of the Sephirot.
Keter is so sublime, it is called in the Zohar "the most hidden of all hidden things", and is completely incomprehensible to man.”

This is from “Recent Theological shifts at FFOZ”…
“First Fruits of Zion does not recommend or sanction Kabbalistic literature.”

I guess they don’t have a problem with incorporating Kabbalah into their logo though.

Does anyone know where the Yod stuff comes from ?

(07-19-2009 11:33 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: [ -> ]Obviously, Jesus is not depicted in kabbalah - He is added in by Messianics who strive to take the occultism of kab and stick Jesus into it to "purify" it [/color]

Yep, they like the teachings of the mystical elements of Judaism
but somehow have to justify it's use.

I myself have no interest in mysticism, and is not something
that should be deeply studied by the vast majority of people.

I have taken some classes where mysticism was brought in, and
it was interesting and did indeed add a new dimension to studying
Torah and growing closer to the Almighty, but the vast majority
of Kabbalah that is taught today is nothing more than new age
gobbly-gook.

(07-20-2009 02:40 AM)Mistle Wrote: [ -> ]\

Does anyone know where the Yod stuff comes from ?

As I noted in my earlier post, it comes from kabbalah.

In Judaism, kabbalah is considered such a dangerous subject that only those who have studied Torah and the Talmud for 40 years are allowed to begin their studies into kabbalah. FFOZ's promotion of this spiritually destructive mysticism is like putting a loaded revolver in the hands of a little child

Here are some selected quotes from Jewish kabbalah sites - I am not posting the links as the material in these articles is so occultic and spiritually perverted - it is nauseating to read

I do not want to promote that anyone reading this junk

Quote:"If we have here the tip of the Yod, Yod Key Vav Key, we then divide all of creation into worlds: AK, Atzilut, Beria, Yetzira, Assiya. Then we say that in all of those, let’s say from the tip of the Yod, we have Keter, etc: Hochma, Bina, Zeir Anpin and Malchut. All of them are connected this way and give to one another, but how do they give to one another?

How can the tip of the Yod, or the Yod Keter in AK, give to Keter de Atzilut? Only through the HaVaYaH that exists between them. It means Light should come through the whole world of Adam Kadmon, and once it comes down, it then returns as Returning Light and goes up to Keter de Atzilut, etc."


"This corporeal degree is also divided into still, vegetative, animate, speaking and the tip of the Yod which is the root of everything. Supposedly it should receive from the spiritual worlds which end before the Machsom, separating the spiritual worlds from the corporeal one, this world. Is there a connection between them or not? If there is, how does it all fit together? Because in the spiritual, the connection between the parts is a connection between the same types: Aviut, Masach, Lights. In the corporeal, it is the opposite; here it is Aviut without the Masach."

"The Yod is related to the sephirah Kether, the first emergence of the light. When the light that emerges from the unknowable begins to descend into manifestation, the Yod (Kether) extends itself downwards; this is symbolized by the Vav. The Vav in other words represents the bridge, the “and,” the connection between above and below. It is how God creates. This is why in the book of Genesis nearly every sentence of chapters 1-5 begins with Vav. In the English you only see it a few times: Nearly every sentence of these chapters begins with Vav."

It appears that FFOZ doesn't quite have their facts altogether. This is so common in HR where the "teachers of greater truth" are teaching what they do not know and putting people "in touch" with mysticism and the occult This practice is not only an abomination to God, the practice of such things will keep one out of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; ... Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, ... they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


As Jesus so succinctly put it:

Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

(07-20-2009 01:30 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: [ -> ][quote]"If we have here the tip of the Yod, Yod Key Vav Key, we then divide all of creation into worlds: AK, Atzilut, Beria, Yetzira, Assiya. Then we say that in all of those, let’s say from the tip of the Yod, we have Keter, etc: Hochma, Bina, Zeir Anpin and Malchut. All of them are connected this way and give to one another, but how do they give to one another?

How can the tip of the Yod, or the Yod Keter in AK, give to Keter de Atzilut? Only through the HaVaYaH that exists between them. It means Light should come through the whole world of Adam Kadmon, and once it comes down, it then returns as Returning Light and goes up to Keter de Atzilut, etc."


"This corporeal degree is also divided into still, vegetative, animate, speaking and the tip of the Yod which is the root of everything. Supposedly it should receive from the spiritual worlds which end before the Machsom, separating the spiritual worlds from the corporeal one, this world. Is there a connection between them or not? If there is, how does it all fit together? Because in the spiritual, the connection between the parts is a connection between the same types: Aviut, Masach, Lights. In the corporeal, it is the opposite; here it is Aviut without the Masach."

"The Yod is related to the sephirah Kether, the first emergence of the light. When the light that emerges from the unknowable begins to descend into manifestation, the Yod (Kether) extends itself downwards; this is symbolized by the Vav. The Vav in other words represents the bridge, the “and,” the connection between above and below. It is how God creates. This is why in the book of Genesis nearly every sentence of chapters 1-5 begins with Vav. In the English you only see it a few times: Nearly every sentence of these chapters begins with Vav."

Well, good luck to anyone trying to understand what this says, LOL.

Like I said, mysticism is not for me, but it does have some value
as a way of understanding Torah, as long as one recognizes it is
NOT scripture.

Thank you, That stuff is very confusing and I think you’re right as to wanting as little to do with this as possible as it is the occult.
I really wanted to focus on the logo as FFOZ could argue all day that they weren’t into Kabbalah, where as I think the Vine of David logo is a very simple indication that they are definitely into it.
I found these little quotes from websites earlier this morning which I did actually understand ! yay!


“The rabbis ascribed special sanctity to the letters of the Hebrew alphabet. The Psalmist's declaration that "By the word of God were the heavens made" (Ps. 33:6) was taken to indicate the power of the letters, which form the "Word" of God.”


“The alphabet played a role in the creation of the world.”

“The Talmud related that this world was created with the letter he and the future world with the letter yod, both letters forming one of the names of God (Men. 29b). Every letter in the alphabet is granted symbolic meaning by the Talmud.”

“The early mystical literature of the Jews, composed soon after the Talmud was concluded, dealt extensively with the symbolism and secret meaning of the alphabet.”

“The belief that the alphabet has mystical significance is based on the idea that the 22 letters of the alphabet are spiritual essences which came into being as emanations from God. The Talmud had already stated that God created heaven and earth with the help of the alphabet (Ber. 55a), and the idea that the 22 letters as spiritual states were the basis of creation recurs throughout mystical literature.”

“When a person pronounces or uses letters of the alphabet, it awakens the spiritual essence contained in them and "sacred forms" come into being which rise and unite with their origins, the heavenly letters, "which are the sources of emanation"; there they become subtle and incorporeal, similar to what they were before they took on a definite material shape in man's mouth.”

I believe that they got these beliefs from the Zohar and the Sefer Yetzirah which is another Kabbalistic work.

I wonder when they will switch the official statement of "We don't endorse it" to "Well we do a bit but It's not evil!!!"

Thanks

(07-20-2009 09:54 PM)Mistle Wrote: [ -> ]Thank you, That stuff is very confusing and I think you’re right as to wanting as little to do with this as possible as it is the occult.
I really wanted to focus on the logo as FFOZ could argue all day that they weren’t into Kabbalah, where as I think the Vine of David logo is a very simple indication that they are definitely into it.
I found these little quotes from websites earlier this morning which I did actually understand ! yay!


“The rabbis ascribed special sanctity to the letters of the Hebrew alphabet. The Psalmist's declaration that "By the word of God were the heavens made" (Ps. 33:6) was taken to indicate the power of the letters, which form the "Word" of God.”


“The alphabet played a role in the creation of the world.”

“The Talmud related that this world was created with the letter he and the future world with the letter yod, both letters forming one of the names of God (Men. 29b). Every letter in the alphabet is granted symbolic meaning by the Talmud.”

“The early mystical literature of the Jews, composed soon after the Talmud was concluded, dealt extensively with the symbolism and secret meaning of the alphabet.”

“The belief that the alphabet has mystical significance is based on the idea that the 22 letters of the alphabet are spiritual essences which came into being as emanations from God. The Talmud had already stated that God created heaven and earth with the help of the alphabet (Ber. 55a), and the idea that the 22 letters as spiritual states were the basis of creation recurs throughout mystical literature.”

“When a person pronounces or uses letters of the alphabet, it awakens the spiritual essence contained in them and "sacred forms" come into being which rise and unite with their origins, the heavenly letters, "which are the sources of emanation"; there they become subtle and incorporeal, similar to what they were before they took on a definite material shape in man's mouth.”

I believe that they got these beliefs from the Zohar and the Sefer Yetzirah which is another Kabbalistic work.

I wonder when they will switch the official statement of "We don't endorse it" to "Well we do a bit but It's not evil!!!"

Thanks

That stuff is all gematria, which is part of kabbalah. It is a very mystical approach to "dig" into Scripture. It is pure gnostic sensationalism. It is interesting that they have that much promotion of kab on their website. Wow - talk about jumping outta the closet with both feet!!!!!!!!!

Those quotes were from another Kabbalah website.
But they have advertised books about Gematria with references to Kabbalists before.
What is funny, aside from FFOZ being 'out and proud' is that they also seem to be trying to crawl back in as fast as they can.
Well actually, now I'm just being mean. That 'run for the hills' smilely is very funny though.

(07-20-2009 10:54 PM)Mistle Wrote: [ -> ]Those quotes were from another Kabbalah website.
But they have advertised books about Gematria with references to Kabbalists before.
What is funny, aside from FFOZ being 'out and proud' is that they also seem to be trying to crawl back in as fast as they can.
Well actually, now I'm just being mean. That 'run for the hills' smilely is very funny though.

Somebody just sent me an FFOZ edrash email. Lo and behold, Talmud again

It doesn't look like they are crawling very fast

I think they need a new "program director"

Here's a taste of the latest [bolding in red is mine to indicate Talmud]:

Parashat Hashavuah

Devarim - דברים : "Words"
Torah : Deuteronomy 1:1-3:22
Haftarah : Isaiah 1:1-27
Gospel : Acts 1-2
Two Wrongs Don't Make Repentance
Thought for the Week

On the ninth of Av it was decreed that our fathers should not enter the land, the Temple was destroyed the first time, and the second time. (b.Taanit 29a)
Commentary

Then you said to me, "We have sinned against the LORD; we will indeed go up and fight, just as the LORD our God commanded us." And every man of you girded on his weapons of war, and regarded it as easy to go up into the hill country. (Deuteronomy 1:41)

According to Jewish tradition, the Israelites refused to enter the land on the ninth day of the fifth month (Tisha B'Av). Consequently, Judaism observes that day as an annual fast day. The same date is the anniversary of the destruction of both the first and second Temples. The first Torah reading from the book of Deuteronomy is always read on the Shabbat before the ninth day of the fifth month.