SeekGod.ca Discussion Forum

(01-29-2010 04:42 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: [ -> ]No one is "sanctifying" Christmas. Christmas was "birthed" when Jesus was born [/b][/color]

Study the history of the Winter solstice, christ-mas, and catholic conquest of the barbarians. throw in the history of the Greek Orthodox and the feast of the solstice there.

You can call it Christ but it is a false christ and a holiday which the Real Church avoided. It did not exist within the Body of Believers and only became a church holiday much later.

You can not tack christ onto a festival of death and call it God Honoring.

And the Word for Unclean IS appropriately used here. Touch does not mean literally!

(01-29-2010 05:05 PM)Isaiah Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-29-2010 04:42 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: [ -> ]No one is "sanctifying" Christmas. Christmas was "birthed" when Jesus was born [/b][/color]

Study the history of the Winter solstice, christ-mas, and catholic conquest of the barbarians. throw in the history of the Greek Orthodox and the feast of the solstice there.

You can call it Christ but it is a false christ and a holiday which the Real Church avoided. It did not exist within the Body of Believers and only became a church holiday much later.

You can not tack christ onto a festival of death and call it God Honoring.

And the Word for Unclean IS appropriately used hear. Touch does not mean literally!

I prefer to study the Scriptures which speak of Christ. Scriptures prove that Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh. Celebrating that, proclaiming that and reminding people of that is what we are to be about. Paganism is all around. In all of that, declaring Christ is paramount. His BIRTH is Scriptural. It fulfilled prophecies and became historical and Scriptural. He is not a false god being worshipped. He is not likened to the false gods that pagans worshipped then or since then. To equate the birth of Jesus Christ as being the same as the 'birth' of other gods or the worship of false gods is simply wrong. Being born...

Mat 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Matthew 1:18-25 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. 19. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. 20. But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. 22. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 23. Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. 24. Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25. And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Mat 2:1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
Mat 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
Mat 2:3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
Mat 2:4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
Mat 2:5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,
Mat 2:6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
Mat 2:7 Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.
Mat 2:8 And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.
Mat 2:9 When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.
Mat 2:10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.
Mat 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.
Mat 2:12 And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.
Mat 2:13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
Mat 2:14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
Mat 2:15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
Matthew 2:16-21 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men. 17. Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, 18. In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not. 19. But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeareth in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, 20. Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life. 21. And he arose, and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel.

Luke 2:3-20 ...And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city. 4. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David 5. To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. 6. And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered. 7. And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn. 8. And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. 9. And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. 10. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. 11. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. 12. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. 13. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, 14. Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men. 15. And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us. 16. And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger. 17. And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child. 18. And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds. 19. But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart. 20. And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them.

Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

For unto: Isa_7:14; Luk_1:35, Luk_2:11
unto us a son: Joh_1:14, Joh_3:16-17; Rom_8:32; 1Jo_4:10-14
the government: Isa_22:21-22; Psa_2:6-12, Psa_110:1-4; Jer_23:5-6; Zec_6:12-13, Zec_9:9-10; Mat_11:27, Mat_28:18; 1Co_15:25; Eph_1:21-22; Rev_19:16
his name: Isa_7:14; Jdg_13:18 *marg. Jer_31:22; Mat_1:23; 1Ti_3:16
Counsellor: Isa_28:29; Zec_6:13; Luk_21:15; Joh_1:16; 1Co_1:30; Col_2:3
The mighty God: Isa_45:24-25; Psa_45:3, Psa_45:6, Psa_50:1; Jer_23:5-6; Joh_1:1-2; Act_20:28; Rom_9:5; Tit_2:13; Heb_1:8; 1Jo_5:20
The everlasting Father: Isa_8:18, Isa_53:10; Pro_8:23; Heb_2:13-14
The Prince of Peace: Isa_11:6-9, Isa_53:5; Psa_72:3, Psa_72:7, Psa_85:10; Dan_9:24-25; Mic_5:4-5; Luk_2:14; Joh_14:27; Act_10:36; Rom_5:1-10; 2Co_5:19; Eph_2:14-18; Col_1:20-21; Heb_7:2-3, Heb_13:20

THIS is what Christians proclaim. They don't proclaim the winter solstice which is a current event. THey don't worship handmade idols representing false gods or the demonic. THey don't nail Jesus onto a board to hold Him up and decorate HIM with silver and gold. That is---true believers don't. Perhaps some do...and some may have done it themselves if caught up in pagan ways. Traditions or culture do not dictate what a Christian does. Love of Christ does. I am not catholic nor have I been to embrace their beliefs on this; I am not a pagan, nor have entered into the solstice practices---which are still practiced to day and have nothing to do with Jesus Christ.

If a believer chooses to use a day and specifically focus on those things....the SCRIPTURES say:

Romans 14:4-7 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7. For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

I do not want to hear again that this Scriptural proclamation of the truth of Jesus Christ as being part of paganism. It is not. THere are many who would silence the public proclamation of Jesus Christ in all things. If someone chooses to use the secular holiday of Christmas to show the Truth of Jesus Christ.....that is not to be condemned. If worldliness has become a part of it for a believer to the extent that the focus is not Jesus Christ but the worldly things around that time--then each believer must deal with it. Even non-believers sing carols, which uphold scriptural truth, and media abounds that proclaim Jesus Christ at those times. It may or may not be used by God to bring someone to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. But it is far better to use it to proclaim Christ according to the Scriptures than to sit and do nothing or allow a false Christ to be proclaimed by non-believers. And I don't even get involved in Christmas and all the trappings. BUt I will not abide the false accusation that people are worshipping false gods if they proclaim Jesus Christ during Christmas. Which to some is a very holy time because of the rememberance and focus of Jesus being born and what that meant to all mankind. I am referring to true believers concerning this.

1 Corinthians 9:18-23 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel. 19. For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20. And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21. To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23. And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

This thread is closed.

(01-29-2010 05:05 PM)Isaiah Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-29-2010 04:42 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: [ -> ]No one is "sanctifying" Christmas. Christmas was "birthed" when Jesus was born [/b][/color]

Study the history of the Winter solstice, christ-mas, and catholic conquest of the barbarians. throw in the history of the Greek Orthodox and the feast of the solstice there.

You can call it Christ but it is a false christ and a holiday which the Real Church avoided. It did not exist within the Body of Believers and only became a church holiday much later.

You can not tack christ onto a festival of death and call it God Honoring.

And the Word for Unclean IS appropriately used here. Touch does not mean literally!

Because one celebrates the birth of Christ and it coincides with a pagan festival, does not make it wicked or pagan. It was a matter of convenience. For centuries, the early Christians debated when Christ was born, without a satisfactory outcome. Those dates ranged from April to August to December to January. When Christmas was applied to Dec 25, it had ALREADY been celebrated at that time frame by Christians. As a matter of fact, Christmas celebrations can be dated back to 125 AD. God chose not to reveal when Christ was born. So if one chooses to celebrate it at a fixed date on the calendar, it is not a sin

When the "Christmas story" is read at Christmas time, it comes straight from the Word of God, so please, please do not say that those who praise God with all their hearts for the gift of His Son that they are worshiping a false Jesus. That is so "Messianic". How sad to be held captive to such false teaching.