So what is everyone doing about Halloween? It used to be my second favorite holiday after Independence Day and I still like some of the trappings of it (such as the realistic severed arm hanging from the boot of my car, which I display not specifically on Halloween but year-round). I wish there were a day where people could dress up in costumes that
wasn't a Pagan holiday. I never do trick-or-treating, but I know that some Christians pass Chick and other tracts to the kids, and churches hold "harvest festivals" (which are Pagan) on Halloween night.
Anyone want to pitch in on what they do around Halloween?
(no, that isn't a cauldron)
We dont have it in this country, except where commercial interests are trying to pump it up in order to sell things, buteven so it is very small here, and was non existent when i was a boy.
but if it were would i get upset about it? no reason to. i ignore these things not out of moral principle (there are more important things to be concerned about) but because i simply cannot be bothered spending the time and effort they require
I think that the topic of Christians and pagan holidays is big problem. Trick or Treating, Easter Egg hunts, Santa Claus, are disgusting to me, because I see how Christians like justify them.
Halloween has a very Satanic origin, and is still one of the high holy days for Satanists where they are required to have human sacrifices. Which explains why most of the costumes worn on Halloween are occultic, like devils, witches, zombies, and ghosts.
I do not see Halloween as being a wholesome holiday.
(01-27-2010 07:37 PM)Ben Wrote: [ -> ]I think that the topic of Christians and pagan holidays is big problem. Trick or Treating, Easter Egg hunts, Santa Claus, are disgusting to me, because I see how Christians like justify them.
Halloween has a very Satanic origin, and is still one of the high holy days for Satanists where they are required to have human sacrifices. Which explains why most of the costumes worn on Halloween are occultic, like devils, witches, zombies, and ghosts.
I do not see Halloween as being a wholesome holiday.
I would agree that Helloween is not a good holiday. 
However, I am not convinced that Christmas and Easter are pagan just because one celebrates Christ's birth in Dec and His resurrection in the Spring
*** I am well aware of the "pagan connections" associated with both *** - having been fully inducted into the Hebrew Roots movement for a season. I am of the opinion now that just because a tradition was pagan at some point in history, one is not "worshiping" that system or other gods by incorporating those traditions in celebrations. Do you really think that Christians who celebrate Christmas and Easter who truly love the Lord and worship Him, are actually worshiping idols?
For instance, an evergreen tree decorated as a Christmas tree is not pagan - it is how one uses it. 
Thoughts? 
(01-27-2010 08:06 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: [ -> ] (01-27-2010 07:37 PM)Ben Wrote: [ -> ]I think that the topic of Christians and pagan holidays is big problem. Trick or Treating, Easter Egg hunts, Santa Claus, are disgusting to me, because I see how Christians like justify them.
Halloween has a very Satanic origin, and is still one of the high holy days for Satanists where they are required to have human sacrifices. Which explains why most of the costumes worn on Halloween are occultic, like devils, witches, zombies, and ghosts.
I do not see Halloween as being a wholesome holiday.
I would agree that Helloween is not a good holiday.
However, I am not convinced that Christmas and Easter are pagan just because one celebrates Christ's birth in Dec and His resurrection in the Spring
*** I am well aware of the "pagan connections" associated with both *** - having been fully inducted into the Hebrew Roots movement for a season. I am of the opinion now that just because a tradition was pagan at some point in history, one is not "worshiping" that system or other gods by incorporating those traditions in celebrations. Do you really think that Christians who celebrate Christmas and Easter who truly love the Lord and worship Him, are actually worshiping idols?
For instance, an evergreen tree decorated as a Christmas tree is not pagan - it is how one uses it.
Thoughts?
My mom and I had a little Charlie Brown-style Christmas tree I rescued from the curb when we lived in San Fran. It was so pathetic-looking I took pity on it. We used to (I still do) have a miniature plastic tree with the trim already glued to it that we lit year-round because my mom said it brightened up the room. It had nothing to do with Christmas. I don't think God cared one way or the other.
(01-27-2010 08:30 PM)YYZ Skinhead Wrote: [ -> ]My mom and I had a little Charlie Brown-style Christmas tree I rescued from the curb when we lived in San Fran. It was so pathetic-looking I took pity on it. We used to (I still do) have a miniature plastic tree with the trim already glued to it that we lit year-round because my mom said it brightened up the room. It had nothing to do with Christmas. I don't think God cared one way or the other.
I love that story 
I don't think God cares either. I think He is more interested in our fruit and our love for Him and others 
Well here is what god said about the Christmas tree, and he does care.
Jeremiah10:2-4
2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
We can even skip the obvious tree part, but God said "learn not the way of the heathen", and that means to not copy the things they do (their customs at least). And holidays are customs? So I think this includes Halloween, Easter, and Christmas, (Which in Latin is the Christ-mass, and by definition, it means "death of Christ" ) which is a Catholic Holiday and custom.
My mother was Godly. She tried to get me out of Paganism and Witchcraft when I was studying and practicing them. She told me, "Don't read about Witches and Witchcraft. Read the Bible instead." That made me unhappy at the time but I realized she was correct. We didn't celebrate Christmas together after I said I no longer wanted to, though most of my family does and nearly all of them are Godly Believers. My mom still gave presents to other family members who observed it. Both of us knew that Christmas is Pagan and that Jesus was not born in December. As I said, we had trees--a fake one with trimming that I got at a 99 cent store, a real one with nothing that I got from a curb after Christmas--that we kept year-round for decoration and not to celebrate anything.
I know Jeremiah 10:2-4 and what it describes. I'm insulted that you imply we were "learning the ways of the heathen" because we had decorative plants in our house. I know the etymology of Christ-Mass, and I know about Saturnalia, and when I was a practicing Pagan I observed Yule. I have good reasons not to celebrate Christmas, and I don't. Everyone who knows my "theology" knows that I don't celebrate traditional Christian holidays because they are Pagan. My mother was dying of cancer and bedridden and she said the lighted plastic tree brightened up her room, so we kept it lit regardless of the time of year. I used to buy her all sorts of little decorations because they made her happy and the tree was one of them. I don't think God sent my mother to hell for that, nor do I think He will send me to hell for it.
I think one of the issues is what is our heart focus.
We know that historically the pagan practices were for going after false gods. The difference we can see is that the proclamation of Jesus Christ, His birth, death, and resurrection, is not the same as the proclamation of false gods. Hebrew Roots people claim that the Jesus we serve is a false god--like all the other pagan false gods. They like to say that what the pagans celebrated is the same as what Christians celebrate. Is it? I think that's the heart of the issue.
Is telling the world, at a time of secular celebration (Christmas)--because it is a secular holiday in many countries---is using that time to proclaim Jesus Christ wrong?
Halloween should be a no brainer for Christians. As I think I said previously, some do try to evangelise in it---we should be reaching out regardless what day it is and maybe more so on these worldly events. But....is it wrong to use these 'times' to proclaim the Truth of Jesus Christ.
Paul said he became a Jew to the Jews and Gentile to the Gentiles in order to reach all for Christ. And to give none offense. If our goal is to proclaim Jesus Christ, would we go to Mars Hill with Paul and sit amonst the pagan statues and proclaim the true God without calling them pagan, heathens and whatever?
Can we be in a secular celebration or situation and somehow make the focus about Jesus Christ? Should we?
I think it's also important to consider, we are strangers and pilgrims in this world. We belong to another country and city. Therefore, what we utilise in this world must be with the concept of how to serve Christ, how to proclaim Him and to recognise as Paul did, the freedom we have, versus the need to not offend in order to accomplish our mission.
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Decorating a tree or plant is not pagan LM. That it brought enjoyment through such a tragic time is nothing to feel bad about.
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I think it's important to read Jeremiah 9 and 10 together and see the context. Remember the issue was about following false gods and if one does some research, we see that images of false gods had been made out of trees aka wood, the workman made it, and then decorated with real silver and gold and they had to be fastened down so they didn't fall over.
We don't do that with Jesus. He is not a false god. He can't be fastened down, or decorated. I fully believe we are not to learn the way of the heathen and have written many articles on that topic. NOr are we to Christianise the occult. However, we know that Jesus was not born December 25th. But is it wrong to make use of a time where custom has made a holiday---and tell the Truth about Jesus, being as the 'gentiles', in order to proclaim Him. We didn't have a tree for years--but have been in family homes where it mattered. We didn't make a fuss about it, because the issue isn't about a tree...the issue is, where is Christ in all this. Can we use this time to share Him in a way that honors Him.
Easter, well, we all know the eggs and bunny etc are junk. BUt is the proclamation of Christ crucified and risen not to be celebrated? Can we use this time===regardless who made it a 'secular holiday'---and share the truth of salvation in Jesus Christ. Without the bunnies and eggs....?
(01-27-2010 09:12 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: [ -> ] (01-27-2010 08:30 PM)YYZ Skinhead Wrote: [ -> ]My mom and I had a little Charlie Brown-style Christmas tree I rescued from the curb when we lived in San Fran. It was so pathetic-looking I took pity on it. We used to (I still do) have a miniature plastic tree with the trim already glued to it that we lit year-round because my mom said it brightened up the room. It had nothing to do with Christmas. I don't think God cared one way or the other.
I love that story
I don't think God cares either. I think He is more interested in our fruit and our love for Him and others
I agree!
Proverbs 15:13 A merry heart maketh a cheerful countenance: but by sorrow of the heart the spirit is broken.
Proverbs 15:15 All the days of the afflicted [are] evil: but he that is of a merry heart [hath] a continual feast.
Proverbs 17:22 A merry heart doeth good [like] a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones.
I don't think it's a sin to watch
A Charlie Brown Christmas, either. Yeah, they got the day wrong, but where else can you find a kids' cartoon that speaks Truth straight from the Gospels (Luke 2:8 - 14)? It may be the first exposure to Scripture for kids in secular families.
(01-28-2010 11:08 AM)Vic Wrote: [ -> ]I think one of the issues is what is our heart focus.
We know that historically the pagan practices were for going after false gods. The difference we can see is that the proclamation of Jesus Christ, His birth, death, and resurrection, is not the same as the proclamation of false gods. Hebrew Roots people claim that the Jesus we serve is a false god--like all the other pagan false gods. They like to say that what the pagans celebrated is the same as what Christians celebrate. Is it? I think that's the heart of the issue.
Is telling the world, at a time of secular celebration (Christmas)--because it is a secular holiday in many countries---is using that time to proclaim Jesus Christ wrong?
Halloween should be a no brainer for Christians. As I think I said previously, some do try to evangelise in it---we should be reaching out regardless what day it is and maybe more so on these worldly events. But....is it wrong to use these 'times' to proclaim the Truth of Jesus Christ.
Paul said he became a Jew to the Jews and Gentile to the Gentiles in order to reach all for Christ. And to give none offense. If our goal is to proclaim Jesus Christ, would we go to Mars Hill with Paul and sit amonst the pagan statues and proclaim the true God without calling them pagan, heathens and whatever?
Can we be in a secular celebration or situation and somehow make the focus about Jesus Christ? Should we?
I think it's also important to consider, we are strangers and pilgrims in this world. We belong to another country and city. Therefore, what we utilise in this world must be with the concept of how to serve Christ, how to proclaim Him and to recognise as Paul did, the freedom we have, versus the need to not offend in order to accomplish our mission.
____________________________________
Decorating a tree or plant is not pagan LM. That it brought enjoyment through such a tragic time is nothing to feel bad about.
I am so glad you posted this. When my mother was in the hospital, about every other week or so, I would bring her little things to make her happy. I had done the same thing for my grandmother, who lived to be nearly a hundred and one, when she was bedridden with cancer. Since all three of us had the same birthday and we all looked alike, I think I inherited my liking for miniature things from them.
(In addition, I can guess which disease will probably kill me.
)