12-21-2008, 02:13 PM
The Christian fulfillment of circumcision is the spiritual removal of sin from the heart.
Col 2:11 In whom also you are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, in which also you are risen with him through the faith of the working of God, who has raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, has he made alive together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses
Isn't the point of physical circumcision, the circumcision of the heart?
Deut 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiff-necked.
Doesn’t the uncircumcision of our flesh represent the heart full of sin and isn’t the physical uncircumcision in the Old Covenant symbolizing being dead in sin and estranged from the covenant of God?
The change of heart that Paul describes in the image of the heart circumcision is the work of the Holy Spirit, not the result of external obedience to the Law.
Actually in Isaiah 1:10-18
Isa 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? says the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of male goats.
Isa 1:12 When you come to appear before me, who has required this at your hand, to trample my courts?
Isa 1:13 Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot endure; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
Isa 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hates: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary of bearing them.
Isa 1:15 And when you spread forth your hands, I will hide my eyes from you: yea, when you make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
Isa 1:16 Wash you, make yourself clean; put away the evil of your doings from before my eyes; cease to do evil;
Isa 1:17 Learn to do good; seek justice, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
we see that God condemns external obedience if not the product of, or accompanied by a righteous heart.
Rom 2:25 For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision.
Rom 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
Rom 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfills the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law?
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, who is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
David knew this when he prayed "create a clean heart in me O Lord" and
Psa 51:16 For you desire not sacrifice; else would I give it: you delight not in burnt offering.
Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.
Adherence to the letter of the Law without a clean heart is an abomination to God,
Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering you did not desire; my ears have you opened: burnt offering and sin offering have you not required.
Psa 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
Psa 40:8 I delight to do your will, O my God: yea, your law is within my heart.
that’s why Jesus had such issue with the Pharisees, because they loved to boast in their keeping of the letter but their hearts were far from clean.They were rigorously adhering to the externals yet inside in their hearts all was not well
Psa 78:36 Nevertheless they did flatter him with their mouth, and they lied unto him with their tongues.
Psa 78:37 For their heart was not right with him, neither were they steadfast in his covenant.
Jesus calls us to work on our hearts. Nowhere do we see him commending external observance but countless times he draws attention to the internal heart attitude.
God isn’t interested in the outward observance for its own sake but what it points to or symbolizes, the reality that it represents.The shadow of what was to come which was Jesus and the New Covenant.
I see that HR or messianics that call for going back to Mosaic law-keeping miss these vital points and don’t realize that what they are doing may actually be offensive to God
Isa 1:13 Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot endure; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting
Isa 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hates: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary of bearing them.
They make people feel guilty that they are not obeying God by doing the Mosiac commandments and they themselves don’t learn the lessons of the OT.-In the new God has dispensed with the shadows, the tutor.
In the OT God used the physical to teach us about the spiritual. And as teaching, the OT is essential but we are not called to continue practicing the rituals contained within these shadows, that were proclaimed since the time of Moshe. We are called to circumcise our hearts, not our bodies now. That's why Paul found it so abhorrent that some judiasers or whatever we want to call them, were teaching that gentiles had to be circumcised and keep the law. He used strong language condemning them and rightly so, since the physical rite had no value whatsoever in the new covenant. It was what it pointed to that now takes prominence.
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Col 2:11 In whom also you are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, in which also you are risen with him through the faith of the working of God, who has raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, has he made alive together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses
Isn't the point of physical circumcision, the circumcision of the heart?
Deut 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiff-necked.
Doesn’t the uncircumcision of our flesh represent the heart full of sin and isn’t the physical uncircumcision in the Old Covenant symbolizing being dead in sin and estranged from the covenant of God?
The change of heart that Paul describes in the image of the heart circumcision is the work of the Holy Spirit, not the result of external obedience to the Law.
Actually in Isaiah 1:10-18
Isa 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? says the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of male goats.
Isa 1:12 When you come to appear before me, who has required this at your hand, to trample my courts?
Isa 1:13 Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot endure; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
Isa 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hates: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary of bearing them.
Isa 1:15 And when you spread forth your hands, I will hide my eyes from you: yea, when you make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
Isa 1:16 Wash you, make yourself clean; put away the evil of your doings from before my eyes; cease to do evil;
Isa 1:17 Learn to do good; seek justice, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
we see that God condemns external obedience if not the product of, or accompanied by a righteous heart.
Rom 2:25 For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision.
Rom 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
Rom 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfills the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law?
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, who is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
David knew this when he prayed "create a clean heart in me O Lord" and
Psa 51:16 For you desire not sacrifice; else would I give it: you delight not in burnt offering.
Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.
Adherence to the letter of the Law without a clean heart is an abomination to God,
Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering you did not desire; my ears have you opened: burnt offering and sin offering have you not required.
Psa 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
Psa 40:8 I delight to do your will, O my God: yea, your law is within my heart.
that’s why Jesus had such issue with the Pharisees, because they loved to boast in their keeping of the letter but their hearts were far from clean.They were rigorously adhering to the externals yet inside in their hearts all was not well
Psa 78:36 Nevertheless they did flatter him with their mouth, and they lied unto him with their tongues.
Psa 78:37 For their heart was not right with him, neither were they steadfast in his covenant.
Jesus calls us to work on our hearts. Nowhere do we see him commending external observance but countless times he draws attention to the internal heart attitude.
God isn’t interested in the outward observance for its own sake but what it points to or symbolizes, the reality that it represents.The shadow of what was to come which was Jesus and the New Covenant.
I see that HR or messianics that call for going back to Mosaic law-keeping miss these vital points and don’t realize that what they are doing may actually be offensive to God
Isa 1:13 Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot endure; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting
Isa 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hates: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary of bearing them.
They make people feel guilty that they are not obeying God by doing the Mosiac commandments and they themselves don’t learn the lessons of the OT.-In the new God has dispensed with the shadows, the tutor.
In the OT God used the physical to teach us about the spiritual. And as teaching, the OT is essential but we are not called to continue practicing the rituals contained within these shadows, that were proclaimed since the time of Moshe. We are called to circumcise our hearts, not our bodies now. That's why Paul found it so abhorrent that some judiasers or whatever we want to call them, were teaching that gentiles had to be circumcised and keep the law. He used strong language condemning them and rightly so, since the physical rite had no value whatsoever in the new covenant. It was what it pointed to that now takes prominence.
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