SeekGod.ca Discussion Forum

I think the way most Christian Rightists treat "gay" people is very cruel. It's turned many gay people away from Christianity, and the Bible which can save their souls. Yes, having sex with your own gender, male prostitution and lusting after people are sins, but I am the last person to throw stones at other sinners because I am a sinner.

Is it a sin to be merely attracted to your own gender without lusting after them (which may lead to having sex)? Lust brings forth sin. It works the same way for "straight" people. Every sin attributed to "gay" people can be done by "straight" people. (I use quotation marks around the words because I don't usually label people this way.)

The Christian Right doesn't go after "straight" adulterers, prostitutes or fornicators, though there are a lot more "straights" who do these sins than "gays". The rightist Heritage Foundation whines about homosexuality on the Christian Right site WorldNetDaily http://www.seekgod.ca/cnp.f.htm#farah , but you never hear a peep out of them about drunkenness, probably because the hypocritical Heritage Foundation is sponsored by Coors Brewing.
http://www.seekgod.ca/cnp.c.htm#jcoors
http://www.seekgod.ca/cnp.c.htm#holly
http://www.seekgod.ca/cnp.c.htm#coors

How does a Believer witness to "gays"? A lot of them smell the hatred emanating from the Christian Right, and feel as though God hates them, so they give up on God and the Bible. I have had a lot of gay friends. I don't want them to give up on God and thereby go to hell. People like Fred "God Hates F-gs" Phelps don't help.

P.S. I drink beer, but I never drink Coors (which anyhow tastes as though it was brewed through a donkey).

Dear skinhead,

I am saddened by the things I am reading on your post. I apologize to you for people that have maybe not shown any mercy to you in the past. That have probably been cruel to you. We humans have in our sinful
Nature the bad tendency to attack the things we can’t relate to or don’t like. I am not saying that I fully agreeing with you but I can understand your anger. Most people cannot relate to things they are not
Dealing with. There have been a lot of things done in the name of “Christianity”…and some very bad
Ones. But you might should consider that a lot of things that are being done where done by people that are
Not truly Christians.
A “Real Christian”…born again in Jesus Christ will love you, have mercy for you and grace but at the same
Time reach out to you and tell you the truth. My thinking that enables me to have compassion for you is….
It could be me Lord….and I know the Lord…if I open the door for Jesus Christ when he knocks at my door…will come in and love me and change me more into his image….that is true for everybody that wants
Jesus as their Savior.
The reason why the Church is not rebuking the sin that is going on within its doors is because we live in
Those famous “apostate times” where we have wolves among the sheep who teach falsely to the sheep.
We have more and more Churches that do not deal with sin anymore. And gently like a whisper the sheep
Are being whisked and led away from the Lord Jesus without knowing.
The Jesus Christ that I know from the Word of God wants everyone to be saved. If this will come really so …I doubt, because the Bible also teaches that Jesus says that not everyone who calls Him shall enter into
The Kingdom of Heaven.
I can understand your anger. My heart goes out to you. But that does not change God Word. There are
Commandments that God has given us and they are for everyone the same. God is not a respecter of persons. Everybody has a equal shot to be saved and born again in Jesus Christ.
I hope for you and pray that the Lord will draw you to Himself and speak to your heart and calm your
Anger. I will keep you in my prayers. May the Lord Jesus bless you with wisdom and knowledge.

Love In Jesus http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/images/smilies7/hug.gif
M.

(01-06-2010 04:03 PM)YYZ Skinhead Wrote: [ -> ]I think the way most Christian Rightists treat "gay" people is very cruel. It's turned many gay people away from Christianity, and the Bible which can save their souls. Yes, having sex with your own gender, male prostitution and lusting after people are sins, but I am the last person to throw stones at other sinners because I am a sinner.

Is it a sin to be merely attracted to your own gender without lusting after them (which may lead to having sex)? Lust brings forth sin. It works the same way for "straight" people. Every sin attributed to "gay" people can be done by "straight" people. (I use quotation marks around the words because I don't usually label people this way.)

The Christian Right doesn't go after "straight" adulterers, prostitutes or fornicators, though there are a lot more "straights" who do these sins than "gays". The rightist Heritage Foundation whines about homosexuality on the Christian Right site WorldNetDaily http://www.seekgod.ca/cnp.f.htm#farah , but you never hear a peep out of them about drunkenness, probably because the hypocritical Heritage Foundation is sponsored by Coors Brewing.
http://www.seekgod.ca/cnp.c.htm#jcoors
http://www.seekgod.ca/cnp.c.htm#holly
http://www.seekgod.ca/cnp.c.htm#coors

How does a Believer witness to "gays"? A lot of them smell the hatred emanating from the Christian Right, and feel as though God hates them, so they give up on God and the Bible. I have had a lot of gay friends. I don't want them to give up on God and thereby go to hell. People like Fred "God Hates F-gs" Phelps don't help.

P.S. I drink beer, but I never drink Coors (which anyhow tastes as though it was brewed through a donkey).

Hi LM

I think you always come up with thinker questions. I do believe that some/many believers and non-believers can be cruel to homosexuals--and pretty much any other 'group' we can think of. "Christians" can be very guilty of condemnation because of sin issues, forgetting that Christ came for all of us. Many under the banner of Christian aren't really of Christ. One of the things that many focus on is that according to the Scriptures sexual sins are against ones own body. But, remember many other sins are against ourselves also...

I think friendships amongst our own genders is normal. If we weren't somewhat compatable we wouldn't probably feel the connection to spend time. From a Christian perspective we should not only have a love others of the Body of Christ, but for the lost. People seem to categorise non-believers into ones worthy of being witnessed to based on level of obvious sin, race or current religious beliefs. It's rather a sad thing.

First, I think we really need to be focused on serving Christ and seeking what He would have us do daily. And we need to be aware of the prompting of the Spirit to talk with people about Christ, or just make friendships and allow Christ to shine through. When people have a skewed view of what a Christian is---it takes time to overcome that. We really can be the only witness of Christ they see. Therefore how we present Christ will either be the same old as what they believe, or it will be a new and good experience for them that might be used to draw them to Christ. We need to look at people, regardless of where they are at, as Christ does.

There are many that believe that just because they have chosen the homosexual lifestyle, that doesn't mean they don't believe Christ. I believe it's like any other choice we make--to sin or not sin according to Biblical parameters or the succumbing to sin and the flesh. If we choose to sin willfully, and live to the flesh, we aren't living for Christ. IN the end, His judgments are righteous and He will deal with the choices people make.

Thank you for your kind words. Actually I am not gay myself, but I used to go to school in San Francisco and a lot of my friends were/are.

No need to apologize for what evil people and hypocrites have done. I think reading your words of love and kindness would help a lot of "gay" people see how real Christians deal with the issue. Jesus saved the woman caught in adultery by demonstrating the hypocrisy of the accusers, and said "Neither do I condemn you: go, and sin no more." As per the 10 Commandments any sexual sin is a form of adultery, so I think Jesus would do the same thing with a "gay" person.

It seems to me that you have something against the Christian Right. Maybe they hurt you or something but we cannot look to or take our example (of Christ and true Christianity) from certain groups like this. We must look to the bible and obey it. For it is the foundation of true Christianity.

God does not hate them (homosexuals/lesbians), he hates their sin. God hates all sin from lying, stealing cheating, to taking someone’s life, and we should have a hatred toward sin as well.

1 John 5:17
All unrighteousness is sin;

Rom 6:12
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lust thereof.

Witnessing involves showing someone their own sins and that they need a savior. God loves them so much that He died for their sins. Let them know that the lifestyle they live in is a sin and the sin is what God hates. God does not hate them and true Christians do not hate homosexuals either.

Rom 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

Praise God for your response. I try always to tell myself "what if this would be me"? Then a person will care more because they immediately are confronted with this issue. What if a child would turn this way? Would we as parents abandon or lovingly support the truth. I cannot forsake a child? Not if I want to call myself a Christian. That does not mean that one has to agree with that child but we need to be there as parents and loved ones in Christ that when that time comes where Jesus will draw that person for Salvation that we can help and catch that person and carry the other ones burden as we are commanded by Jesus Christ in Corithians. What a joyous time that is for many when it happens.
Many people do not want to deal with it because it is a selfish problem of our sinful Nature. As long as it does not touch me....I don't need to worry about it.
But Jesus tells us to reach out and carry one anothers burdens. I find that these days in the Church (has many problems) many people do not want to help anymore. The enemy of God, the devil keeps the sheep bussy
with themselves so that we are so occupied and the Lord cannot use us for His Glory.
So we have to keep it real. We live in this world. We are suppose to live in it but not be part of it. Not participate with the works of darkness.



Love In HIM
M.

(01-06-2010 07:13 PM)Vic Wrote: [ -> ]Hi LM

I think you always come up with thinker questions. I do believe that some/many believers and non-believers can be cruel to homosexuals--and pretty much any other 'group' we can think of. "Christians" can be very guilty of condemnation because of sin issues, forgetting that Christ came for all of us. Many under the banner of Christian aren't really of Christ. One of the things that many focus on is that according to the Scriptures sexual sins are against ones own body. But, remember many other sins are against ourselves also...

I think friendships amongst our own genders is normal. If we weren't somewhat compatable we wouldn't probably feel the connection to spend time. From a Christian perspective we should not only have a love others of the Body of Christ, but for the lost. People seem to categorise non-believers into ones worthy of being witnessed to based on level of obvious sin, race or current religious beliefs. It's rather a sad thing.

First, I think we really need to be focused on serving Christ and seeking what He would have us do daily. And we need to be aware of the prompting of the Spirit to talk with people about Christ, or just make friendships and allow Christ to shine through. When people have a skewed view of what a Christian is---it takes time to overcome that. We really can be the only witness of Christ they see. Therefore how we present Christ will either be the same old as what they believe, or it will be a new and good experience for them that might be used to draw them to Christ. We need to look at people, regardless of where they are at, as Christ does.

There are many that believe that just because they have chosen the homosexual lifestyle, that doesn't mean they don't believe Christ. I believe it's like any other choice we make--to sin or not sin according to Biblical parameters or the succumbing to sin and the flesh. If we choose to sin willfully, and live to the flesh, we aren't living for Christ. IN the end, His judgments are righteous and He will deal with the choices people make.

You know, I hadn't even thought of that--demonstrating how a real Believer can witness to nonbelievers even without audible preaching. "Ye are the light of the world, let your light shine before men (for the life of me I cannot recall which verse this is )."

(01-06-2010 07:52 PM)YYZ Skinhead Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-06-2010 07:13 PM)Vic Wrote: [ -> ]Hi LM

I think you always come up with thinker questions. I do believe that some/many believers and non-believers can be cruel to homosexuals--and pretty much any other 'group' we can think of. "Christians" can be very guilty of condemnation because of sin issues, forgetting that Christ came for all of us. Many under the banner of Christian aren't really of Christ. One of the things that many focus on is that according to the Scriptures sexual sins are against ones own body. But, remember many other sins are against ourselves also...

I think friendships amongst our own genders is normal. If we weren't somewhat compatable we wouldn't probably feel the connection to spend time. From a Christian perspective we should not only have a love others of the Body of Christ, but for the lost. People seem to categorise non-believers into ones worthy of being witnessed to based on level of obvious sin, race or current religious beliefs. It's rather a sad thing.

First, I think we really need to be focused on serving Christ and seeking what He would have us do daily. And we need to be aware of the prompting of the Spirit to talk with people about Christ, or just make friendships and allow Christ to shine through. When people have a skewed view of what a Christian is---it takes time to overcome that. We really can be the only witness of Christ they see. Therefore how we present Christ will either be the same old as what they believe, or it will be a new and good experience for them that might be used to draw them to Christ. We need to look at people, regardless of where they are at, as Christ does.

There are many that believe that just because they have chosen the homosexual lifestyle, that doesn't mean they don't believe Christ. I believe it's like any other choice we make--to sin or not sin according to Biblical parameters or the succumbing to sin and the flesh. If we choose to sin willfully, and live to the flesh, we aren't living for Christ. IN the end, His judgments are righteous and He will deal with the choices people make.

You know, I hadn't even thought of that--demonstrating how a real Believer can witness to nonbelievers even without audible preaching. "Ye are the light of the world, let your light shine before men (for the life of me I cannot recall which verse this is )."

Matthew 5:13-16 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. 14. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

I see many great points in every post in this thread so I wont say them again.
As a believer my attitude regarding gay people is that like you said YYZ, society tends to zoom in on them and their particular sexual sins when heterosexual couples have pretty much the same issues.One does not need to be gay to be immoral and conversely one can be gay and not live an immoral lifestyle.I think what we all do in the bedroom should be kept private and need not be obsessed on
Jesus said

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

People with a homosexual orientation that starts off early in life are generally heavily burdened. Many struggle and suffer throughout childhood and early teens because they did not choose to be attracted to the opposite sex. Many teens in this situation commit suicide or turn to drugs etc to cope.They know society views it as sinful and they genuinely do not choose to put themselves in this position.Like YYZ said many in this position come to resent God because they ask themselves why God would create them this way and then punish them for it. Is lifelong celibacy and a life of loneliness and frustration then imposed upon the person because in giving in to their natural attraction it would result in sin.It may seem easy to say for a heterosexual to say that the gay person remain celibate all their lives but for the one in the other shoes life can become very despairing indeed.It is no wonder then that gay people feel defensive and under fire from Christians.
As a believer I see it that its God who works changes in us and He who gives us the new heart to turn away from sin.
I so wish and pray that Christians will not single out and exclude believers due to their sexual orientation.

(01-06-2010 07:36 PM)Saltyone Wrote: [ -> ]It seems to me that you have something against the Christian Right. Maybe they hurt you or something but we cannot look to or take our example (of Christ and true Christianity) from certain groups like this. We must look to the bible and obey it. For it is the foundation of true Christianity.

I do have something against the Christian Right. They cannot keep their religion separated from their politics. They use the word "Christian" as a politico-religious bludgeon. I am a centrist (see my signature) and I think that the far right is too totalitarian and the far left is too spineless. When "clergy" like Pat Robertson and the late Jerry Falwell say that the World Trade Center bombings were caused by homosexuals in the former case, and tell their Baptist university students how to vote in the latter case, I wish they had been of some other religion.

In addition, Sun Myung Moon has the Christian Right on a very short chain. http://www.seekgod.ca/topiccnp.htm