Do you believe that faith and/or religion should be kept separate from politics, or do you believe they go together?
I try to keep my faith apart from politics, except in special cases like the 2004 election where both candidates were members of Skull and Bones and I was afraid to vote for either. Neither of the only two viable parties (USA) is worth voting for IMO.
Faith is spiritual. Politics is carnal. Religion can be both and usually is so I differentiate between it and faith.
Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and
especially Fred Phelps
are examples of people who cannot (or
won't) keep their religion out of their politics or their politics out of their religion.
The question of whether we should as Christians be involved in politics is in addition to what Vic has said, also answered in Romans 13: 1 - 9
"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
By putting our faith and trust in God to obey His commandments, in particular the greatest commandment, then under any political power, corrupt and cruel, or corrupt and benevolent, we can live our lives to honour God.
In my job as an advocate for families who have a child/ren with disability, I am frequently "involved" with politics. I have to know government policies around disability and inform families of their rights and responsibilities under these policies so that they can make informed decisions. Another aspect of the job is to highlight family needs and issues to government to enable them to be addressed in future policies. An example is our recent involvement in providing information to the commissioner for children regarding best practice for respite care which has culminated in lobbying government to change the standard of care for the better.
( need to go off for a bit to provide a housewifely task (iron a shirt) for my husband.
18 years ago I included children with disabilities in my newly opened Daycare, because I believe that as a human being and as a Christian disability should neither separate people from each other nor from God, and therefore I have a personal responsibility to include my disabled neighbours in my love and hospitality. I realised that for many families the cost of caring for their disabled child was so high that government subsidy is required, and once the government hands out money it also then makes policies, which need to be put into action, lived under and revised.
I think that I believe that, like people such as Florence Nightingale, we should put our love into action according to how we have been gifted by God, and if that action results in political change for the better then that is a good thing.
As an addendum to YYZ's comments on voting, you may be interested to know that in Australia, if you are a citizen of 18years +, it is illegal not to vote. As we plan to become citizens this year ( but after the election) at some stage I will have to vote. My decision on who to vote for ( in this increasingly dictatorial, but presently benevolent corrupt government) when the time comes will be made with prayer and faith.
With regard to anything political, we need to remember to "overcome evil with good" (Romans 12:21 )and I think that means our day to day, moment by moment love in action for each other and our neighbours. We also need to pray for those in authority and for our enemies. And that I think is the extent to which faith and politics go together.
Really good thoughts Mary. I think you have nailed "living it". I also think going to bat for people in the way you have presented is a Biblical precept as well, because it shows the love of Christ. Job_29:12-13, Job_31:15-20; Psa_68:5; Isa_1:16-17, Isa_58:6-7; Mat_25:34-46; Gal_6:9-10; 1Jo_3:17-19
I think we are to do as God leads, for His honor and His glory and showing His love to others. In the world but not of the world.
__________
I meant to also say, Christians should be exemplary at abiding the law of the land, unless...a law of the land forces them to disobey the Scriptures.
(02-08-2010 07:51 PM)Vic Wrote: [ -> ]Really good thoughts Mary. I think you have nailed "living it". I also think going to bat for people in the way you have presented is a Biblical precept as well, because it shows the love of Christ. Job_29:12-13, Job_31:15-20; Psa_68:5; Isa_1:16-17, Isa_58:6-7; Mat_25:34-46; Gal_6:9-10; 1Jo_3:17-19
I think we are to do as God leads, for His honor and His glory and showing His love to others. In the world but not of the world.
__________
I meant to also say, Christians should be exemplary at abiding the law of the land, unless...a law of the land forces them to disobey the Scriptures.
( I shall look up those verses.)
and should we ever be resisting the law to obey the Scriptures:
"Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not."
and
"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."
Romans 12: 14 and 19.
( I guess you can tell I've been spending my time in Romans lately!).
(02-09-2010 05:43 AM)Mary Wrote: [ -> ] (02-08-2010 07:51 PM)Vic Wrote: [ -> ]Really good thoughts Mary. I think you have nailed "living it". I also think going to bat for people in the way you have presented is a Biblical precept as well, because it shows the love of Christ. Job_29:12-13, Job_31:15-20; Psa_68:5; Isa_1:16-17, Isa_58:6-7; Mat_25:34-46; Gal_6:9-10; 1Jo_3:17-19
I think we are to do as God leads, for His honor and His glory and showing His love to others. In the world but not of the world.
__________
I meant to also say, Christians should be exemplary at abiding the law of the land, unless...a law of the land forces them to disobey the Scriptures.
( I shall look up those verses.)
and should we ever be resisting the law to obey the Scriptures:
"Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not."
and
"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."
Romans 12: 14 and 19.
( I guess you can tell I've been spending my time in Romans lately!).
And furthermore, may we be like Peter and John who were bold to speak the truth in Jesus name:
Acts 4:17 - 19:
But that it spread no further among the people, let us straitly threaten them, that they speak henceforth to no man in this name.
And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.
But Peter and John answered and said unto them,
Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.
Job_29:12-13,
Because I delivered the poor that cried, and the fatherless, and him that had none to help him.
The blessing of him that was ready to perish came upon me: and I caused the widow's heart to sing for joy.
Job_31:15-20;
Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did not one fashion us in the womb?
If I have withheld the poor from their desire, or have caused the eyes of the widow to fail;
Or have eaten my morsel myself alone, and the fatherless hath not eaten thereof;
(For from my youth he was brought up with me, as with a father, and I have guided her from my mother's womb;)
If I have seen any perish for want of clothing, or any poor without covering;
If his loins have not blessed me, and if he were not warmed with the fleece of my sheep;
Psa_68:5;
A father of the fatherless, and a judge of the widows, is God in his holy habitation
Isa_1:16-17,
Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
Isa_58:6-7;
Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
Mat_25:34-46;
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Gal_6:9-10;
And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
1Jo_3:17-19
But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
You know, Mary, for somebody who posted the following, you sure spend a lot of time in threads started by me.
http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.p...437&page=2
(11-08-2009 03:43 AM)Mary Wrote: [ -> ] (11-07-2009 12:52 PM)YYZ Skinhead Wrote: [ -> ]This is going to sound really odd, but is it a sin to film a realistic sex doll and sell the pictures online? I have one of these dolls and was thinking of doing this to pay my bills. It's an inanimate object, so does this fall under looking at a woman lustfully? I am not being facetious.
And I'm going to be mean/bold and call you on this. I think you are being facetious. Some time back you posted that you were considering filming yourself pornographically to pay your bills... then you repented and a friend helped you out. You gave the impression that you believed God had been faithful to you and that you would trust Him in future. Do I need to say that God is not mocked? Stop it. I have no sympathy for your games. Recall the verse I quoted to you from Isaiah 57 - the sledgehammer part. "there is no peace for the wicked"
I asked a question about whether porn using dolls instead of humans was a sin (I assume now that it is, like Rose said), because there are people who have a fetish for that kind of thing. I wasn't sure at the time because none of the "actors" were real, so I asked. You came at me like I had just eaten your children. Since I'm so wicked and you "have no sympathy for my games", why do you continue to read my threads? And why do you continue to post in them, after I PMed you asking you to leave me alone? It's not my board and I have no say over what people post (interestingly, you told me to "stop it", were you telling me to stop posting?), but sheesh, make up your mind.
