SeekGod.ca Discussion Forum

(07-18-2010 05:51 PM)zeke25 Wrote: [ -> ]Even tho I agree that Christ used many parables and that Israel was rebellious, I just cannot make the connection between that and the 144,000. I was hoping you had something more specific. When our Father gives me more time, perhaps I can study this out a little. And as far as Revelation goes, I think it is a mixture of allegory, real events, history, and prophecy. Revelation 1:19 KJV, "Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter."

I might not have much time to keep writing on this topic. I hope Vicky will answer me on my post to her thread under Christian/Rick Warren. Although, I am looking for a different discussion than Rick Warren. If you go there, you will see what I mean.

Have a nice day
zeke25


Do you not agree that Jesus used many parables in His observation of Israel's rebellion? And constantly used these parables to bring the back to God's way of doing things? The context of the 144,000 are those who follow the Lamb. Do we not take up our cross and follow Christ?

Did God not call Israel His holy nation? Did He not promise abundant blessings if they obeyed? Is it a stretch to assume that the 144,000 represent that holy people who follow the Lord with all their hearts? This is why I quoted the scriptures that I did. We [born again followers of Christ] are God's holy nation, not the nation of Israel, although all Jews who are born again are part of that holy nation as well. There is no Jew or Gentile in Christ. Rev is mostly allegorical - do you agree?

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Do you think only the 144,000 only are sealed and have the Father's Name written in their foreheads?

Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

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Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among
them.
Rev 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Hmmmm ... could the 144k be Jews who come to Christ during the 70th week of Daniel, who along with the two witnesses lead a Tribulation era revival? If so then the passage is understood as a prophecy of what will happen. I don't understand why we feel it necessary to say they are something else just because the passage identifies the ethnicity of 144k converts.

(07-17-2010 11:09 PM)zeke25 Wrote: [ -> ]Until we receive further revelation, the easiest route to take is just accept it at face value. Twelve tribes are mentioned with 12,000 from each tribe. Is there a reason to think that they might be someone other than this?

Nope. I believe it is just as is says. 144,000 of the tribes of Israel.
Also though keep in mind ;

Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Rev 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

I believe the 144,000 were the ones that were of the Blessed 1st resurrection. They are the ones that ran the race as paul say's and put on the cloak of righteousness through their obedience to The King.

The last "These are they which came out of great tribulation," those are probably the people after the 1000 year reign of our High Priest. Those would probably make up the majority of us all. We would be the ones that were saved but, just couldn't bring our self's to walk out our Salvation with fear and trembling, and thought we knew better then to Obey the Rules of the "house of Israel".
Just my opinion.

Howdy Shipwreaked

I agree with your post but have a different view point regarding the 144,00 as a result of my studies on this topic. I think the 144,000 reflects back to Gen. 49 and the blessings and prophetic vision of Israel, given by Jacob (renamed by God as ‘Israel’) to his and Joseph’ sons. Ultimately this blessings are a historical narrative of Gods relationship with Israel, Gen.49: 1-28. In a nutshell, it speaks to God’s relationship with the various tribes, their trust in God’s word or a lack of, blessing and obedience verses punishment, and the prophetic message of a coming Redeemer. This might also relate to a number OT saints that represents faithful and obedient of Israel, thus God counted to them as righteous, Heb’s. chapter 11.

In addition, this also might represent the dried bones of Ezekiel chapter 37 whom God called the 'whole house of Israel'. Whereby Gods says that He will cleanse and put His Spirit in them, which is prophesized by Ezekiel 37: 1-14, 24-27. I also think the 144,000 are those that dwell with God in His Tabernacle, and are considered righteous because of faith in God which relates to Heb. 11.

Lord's Blessing, JadeII