SeekGod.ca Discussion Forum

Can you perhaps give examples of what we have lost via translations?

Words and meanings. See Below.


Are you perhaps suggesting that we all need to go and learn hebrew so that we can get all these lost meanings?

Everyone is responsible for their own knowledge, abilities, desires etc. etc. I would err on the side of caution and make sure I knew that there was nothing mistranslated. I myself am finding out it would seem that there is a special connection between early hebrew names and meanings. I find this intriguing and possibly a way for God/Yahweh to convey a thought or message about himself.

The thing is Carl even when you learn hebrew(which I did) you discover that sometimes one word can have many meanings, the same as tends to happen in other languages.So we are back at the same place we started.
While hebrew is a beautiful language -it is just that-a language.

It has been my understanding that Hebrew was the language of God/Yahweh.

On a side note hebrew words can have many meanings. Therefore wouldn't it be prudent to know the hebrew words and meanings to ensure that the thought or message was conveyed properly in English?

And the word of God is perfectly able to be translated into another language inthe same way that many books are also translated into other languages.If I want to read a book that was originally written in French should I therefore learn French just to be able to read the book or isnt it just as well to purchase the english translation.So it is so with God's word.

That would depend on how much you value the information you are receiving or hope to receive. A book originally written in french for me does not have the same value as the bible. Therefore, I would not study french to ensure I have the entire understanding/line of thought conveyed. However the bible holds the key to life and death so to speak. I would like to think that in a situation as grave as that, people would want to make sure they have the original meaning.

We do not have to go and learn hebrew and greek in order to understand the Gospel and then share it with others.
If you like hebrew ,that is fine,so do I but I have to be honest with you here,knowing the Hebrew didnt change my beliefs or understanding in any significant way.Those who say otherwise probably have an agenda like many of the popular Hebrew roots teachers who then use their supposed knowledge of hebrew to tempt you to buy their books,teachings and DVDs.
They will probably draw upon knowledge of their (supposed)paleo-hebrew and will tell you what they say are the true meanings of the words.funnily enough none of these teachers are fluent in hebrew and dont even know the meanings of common hebrew words.They will also tend to spurn formal learning and accredited education.

Quote:For me I see a beauty in the Hebrew language with names and words expressing meaning that are totally lost in translation or transliteration.

Can you explain to me with some examples?
[/quote]

Adam אָדָם Person, man, human being. The root of the names is אדמ, just like the root of the word “ground” or “earth”. According to the Biblical account, God used earth to create man.

Abraham (Avraham) אַבְרָהָם According the bible, the name Abraham is constructed of the words אב (av, “father”) and המון (hamon, “many”), since Abraham was the father of many peoples

Elijah (Eliyahu) אֵלִיָּהוּ The name is composed of the word אלי (eli, “my God”) and the letters יהו (the name of God).


Eshcol (Eshkol) אֶשְׁכּוֹל bunch, cluster (of grapes, etc.). Eshcol is also a name of a brook near Hebron: "And they came unto the brook of Eshcol and cut down from thence a branch with one cluster of grapes, and they bare it between two upon a staff" (Numbers 13, 23).

Eve (Chava, Hava) חַוָּה The root of the name is ח' י' ה', denoting “life”. According to the bible, Eve was thus named for being “the mother of all living”, i.e. of all mankind.

Gabriel (Gavriel, Gavri'el) גַּבְרִיאֵל The name is composed of the words גברי (gavri, in the sense of "man-like") and אל (el, "God"). It points to the fact that God's angel has appeared before Daniel as flesh and blood.

Isaac (Yitschak) יִצְחָק The Biblical story relates the name יצחק (Isaac) to the verb לצחוק (laugh): "And Abraham was an hundred years old when his son Isaac was born unto him. And Sarah said, God hath made me to laugh, so that all that hear will laugh with me." Genesis 21, 5-6

Moses (Moshe) מֹשֶׁה According to the Bible, the name משה is related to the verb למשות (limshot, “to draw out of the water”). According to the Biblical story, Pharaoh’s daughter found Moses the baby floating in an ark in the river.

Zechariah (Zcharya) זְכַרְיָה The first part of the name comes from the root זכר, which means "remember". The second part is God's name: "יה" or "יהו".

Zadok (Tzadok, Tsadok) צָדוֹק The name "Zadok" is derived of the word "צֶדֶק" (tsedek, "justice").

These are just some examples. Either God's installation of the Hebrew language was just for kicks or he placed an importance on names and what one could understand from them.

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(04-15-2010 12:41 PM)Emjesown Wrote: [ -> ]Hello

I to had some hebrew lessons, not much tho, started twice to learn biblical hebrew and stopped twice
but for me it made things clearer, even after i found out that the so called hebrew minded teachers, did n t knowit all.
And had also many errors in theyre reachings.
I am out of the messianic movement now for almost 2 years i still have my doubts about christians techings as wel as messianiic/hebrew mind teachings.
But i learned alot to in the 3 years i joined them.
The old testament came to live to me, so it was n t a waste of time.

But i still don t have a hebrew mind, i m dutch so i have a dutch mind.
About languages, english is my second language and it has more clear expressions then dutch.
Same goes for hebrew i guess.

Not knowing any hebrew don t bring you tohell or makes you unsaved.
So don t worrie!
I still regurly check a word or verse with a jewish friend of mine, just to be sure what it means in the context.
And its really somewhat different then in dutch.
But my goal is to know God and His word.
Not te be a jew or israelite.

Emje

Emje,

Thank you for your insights. I myself am not trying to be jew or israelite. I just want to make sure what I am reading and believing is what was intended.

Mat 7:13 ¶ Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

It would seem with all the denominations ie Catholic, Pentecostal, Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Protestant, Messianic etc....... that the gate is pretty wide. I would also wager that there are many in these denominations. I don't know the exact number in each one. I am just even more aware that he says Narrow is the way and few find it. I pray for all we number in the few.

Mat 7:15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Is it possible for a false prophet to have mistranslated things in the bible? Is there anything in this verse that definitively means they have to be face to face with you so to speak?

Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Mat 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Who is being talked about here? It can't be what would be labeled a lukewarm christian or someone just going to church or someone just professing to be a christian by mouth only. They actually have to be doing something! He explicitly states that they will have prophesied in his name, in his name cast out devils, in his name done many wonderful works! To me this is the majority of the denominations today. Evangelizing the world, disaster relief etc...... So for me BROAD is the WAY is the group being talked of here. The narrow way group has to be different somehow. Can someone explain what the attributes of the narrow group are?

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Quote:Everyone is responsible for their own knowledge, abilities, desires etc. etc. I would err on the side of caution and make sure I knew that there was nothing mistranslated. I myself am finding out it would seem that there is a special connection between early hebrew names and meanings. I find this intriguing and possibly a way for God/Yahweh to convey a thought or message about himself.

That is pretty much Hebrew Roots hype. All one has to do is check a concordance for meanings of names. I have been doing that for years and I hardly know a drop of Hebrew. Also, the names in the Bible are not original names - at least up till about 900BC because the OT was written in proto-canaanite/akkadian - a pagan language. Hebrew evolved from it, as did all other languages, so it is not a "Holy" language.

ps: "yahweh" is not a known name for God. It is a name that retroverted from the Greek and was picked up by none Hebrew scholars as the "correct" name of the YHWH. In other words, it was made up. There are no names in Hebrew that start with the theophoric "YH" as "yah". It is either "Yeh" or "Yo". It is impossible in Hebrew for a word to begin with the pronunciation of "yah". It is a suffix [Eliyah] or a stand alone name. However, people that use "yah" today are using it for an abbreviation of "yahweh" - so they are wrong on two counts.

Quote:It has been my understanding that Hebrew was the language of God/Yahweh.

God's language is every language on earth. If He wanted Hebrew to be the "Holy" language, more than the 5 million who actually speak it would be speaking it. Of the close to 20 million Jews worldwide, only a very small minority speak Hebrew - this does not include the HR pseudo Hebrew speakers who do not know the language at all. It is the Hebrew Roots Movement that has elevated Hebrew and worshiped it to be as holy as God is. It is major error.

Quote:On a side note hebrew words can have many meanings. Therefore wouldn't it be prudent to know the hebrew words and meanings to ensure that the thought or message was conveyed properly in English?

So, you are saying that God is not big enough to preserve His Word? English is the language of the world. You should be thanking God you have known it from birth because He chose English to put forth the Gospel to the world. English speaking countries have done more to promote the Gospel than any other language.

Quote: However the bible holds the key to life and death so to speak. I would like to think that in a situation as grave as that, people would want to make sure they have the original meaning.[/color]

Then perhaps it is time to trust that God has done just that. Why is it that faith in God's ability to preserve His Word, as He said He would do, is such a difficult concept? We don't have the original writings of either the old or new testament. So we are left to trust that God oversaw and guided the translations all the way from the masoretics to the middle ages translators on which the most competent Bibles are based.

Quote:For me I see a beauty in the Hebrew language with names and words expressing meaning that are totally lost in translation or transliteration.

These are just some examples. Either God's installation of the Hebrew language was just for kicks or he placed an importance on names and what one could understand from them.

---

So where did you get the definitions of the names? They are listed in every concordance and lexicon that I know of. I like the BDB for Hebrew and Thayers for Greek. They both have the meanings of names included at no extra charge

By the way, not to shatter your "Hebraic mind set", but Abraham is a pagan name. It comes from Chaldean Aramaic. And Moses is an Egyptian name.

Quote:Thank you for your insights. I myself am not trying to be jew or israelite. I just want to make sure what I am reading and believing is what was intended.

Your agenda is to belittle Christians and the Word of God as we have it. God did not trick His kids by giving them a corrupt Word. His Word is forever, not just to those with "Hebraic minds", but in every language known to man.

Quote:Mat 7:13 ¶ Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Those verses are referring to salvation and following Jesus Christ, not for choosing an "incorrect" translation of the Hebrew

Quote:Mat 7:15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Is it possible for a false prophet to have mistranslated things in the bible? Is there anything in this verse that definitively means they have to be face to face with you so to speak?

That has got to be the funniest thing ever and straining at gnats ...... How are false prophets going to destroy the Word of God as far as preservation goes? Do you think God just threw His Word to the wind and said "Oh well - good luck peeps? Hope it works out for y'all. I gave My Son, and sure hope you get in touch with the Gospel. I can't guarantee that My Word will go forth as I intended it to -- You are on your own, satan has free reign to mess with it so totally that no one has the truth ..."?

[link deleted - you cannot post links until you have reached 50 posts] is what I used today. I don't have access to my concordance at this time.

They are listed in every concordance and lexicon that I know of. I like the BDB for Hebrew and Thayers for Greek. They both have the meanings of names included at no extra charge

By the way, not to shatter your "Hebraic mind set", but Abraham is a pagan name. It comes from Chaldean Aramaic. And Moses is an Egyptian name.
[/b][/color]

No hebraic mindset here. Just expressing my own thoughts.


Your agenda is to belittle Christians and the Word of God as we have it.

[b]I have no agenda. You believe what you want. I believe what I want. It just so happens that we do not agree on somethings. This is a forum. I appreciate being allowed to join it. By that same token I am allowed to present my views as long as I am within your guidelines.

Quote:Mat 7:13 ¶ Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Those verses are referring to salvation and following Jesus Christ, not for choosing an "incorrect" translation of the Hebrew


I know they are referring to salvation. If one reads the entire chapter then one will understand that he is talking about a false religious system that is supposed to be using his name.


That has got to be the funniest thing ever ...... How are false prophets going to destroy the Word of God as far as preservation goes? Do you think God just threw His Word to the wind and said "Oh well - good luck peeps? Hope it works out for y'all. I gave My Son, and sure hope you get in touch with the Gospel. I can't guarantee that My Word will go forth as I intended it to -- You are on your own, satan has free reign to mess with it so totally that no one has the truth ...".

[/quote]

I find it disturbing that we are told to beware of false prophets, yet you think it's funny that false prophets can't destroy the word of god? So you are saying that the NAV, NKJV, NLT, The Message, and every translation is perfect for believers to use?

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That is pretty much Hebrew Roots hype.

[b][color=#FF1493]Your conjecture. I am not in the Hebrew Roots movement. Never have been, never will. Never been a catholic, never will. Was in the Baptist church previously, never will go back. You can see where I am going here. I am non-denominational.


All one has to do is check a concordance for meanings of names. I have been doing that for years and I hardly know a drop of Hebrew. Also, the names in the Bible are not original names - at least up till about 900BC because the OT was written in proto-canaanite/akkadian - a pagan language.

Please provide references on this?



Hebrew evolved from it, as did all other languages, so it is not a "Holy" language.

ps: "yahweh" is not a known name for God. It is a name that retroverted from the Greek and was picked up by none Hebrew scholars as the "correct" name of the YHWH. In other words, it was made up. There are no names in Hebrew that start with the theophoric "YH" as "yah". It is either "Yeh" or "Yo". It is impossible in Hebrew for a word to begin with the pronunciation of "yah". It is a suffix [Eliyah] or a stand alone name. However, people that use "yah" today are using it for an abbreviation of "yahweh" - so they are wrong on two counts.[/b]

Correct!



God's language is every language on earth.

I beg to differ.

Gen 11:1 ¶ And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
Gen 11:2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
Gen 11:3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.
Gen 11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top [may reach] unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
Gen 11:5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
Gen 11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people [is] one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
Gen 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
Gen 11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
Gen 11:9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.


If He wanted Hebrew to be the "Holy" language, more than the 5 million who actually speak it would be speaking it. Of the close to 20 million Jews worldwide, only a very small minority speak Hebrew - this does not include the HR pseudo Hebrew speakers who do not know the language at all. It is the Hebrew Roots Movement that has elevated Hebrew and worshiped it to be as holy as God is. It is major error.

Hebrew roots and everyone else will have to stand accountable for their actions. I am not elevating or worshipping the hebrew language.

So, you are saying that God is not big enough to preserve His Word? English is the language of the world. You should be thanking God you have known it from birth because He chose English to put forth the Gospel to the world.

[b]Please provide scriptural support for god choosing english? I don't thank god for english. I thank him for his mercy and grace toward me when I didn't deserve it.

English speaking countries have done more to promote the Gospel than any other language.
[/b]

English speaking countries also have done more to confound the gospel too. If not, then why the many number of denominations each with their own traditions and "gotta do this to be a member"

The thread topic is how can you tell if someone is HR/Messianic? Your posting definitely reflects that you are. If someone espouses HR doctrines and teachings, then they pretty much fall under the umbrella. You are there

One of HR favorite topics is the divinity of the Hebrew language and it's superiority over all other languages, especially English, which is called a pagan language and therefore, cannot not even remotely hope to utter the intent and desire of Almighty God. This is your "agenda" - regardless of your back peddling.

It is clear that you missed an obvious point. The Bible, in English, is how God chose to preserve His Word. For the HR adherents, this is like a horrible thorn in the side that will not go away. So I will reiterate that English is used more than any other language to promote the Gospel of Christ. I am speaking of the presentation of the Gospel - not referring to denominational interpretations of spirituality or doctrines and theologies that are promoted. The Gospel itself remains pure. If one reads the Gospel in English or any other language, they will know that Jesus is the Son of God who came to earth to die for our sins. If one believes on Him, they will have eternal life.

When the guard in the prison, where Paul was held captive, was shocked at the chains falling off Paul and the other prisoners and the doors falling open - he fell to his knees and said - What must I do to be saved? Paul did not respond with - learn Hebrew first that then we will talk about it, cause unless you know Hebrew you are just not going to "get it". He said: Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and THOU SHALT BE SAVED. That was really hard, huh?

Matt 7 is not about a religious system. It is about how to live as a believer in Jesus Christ - what is acceptable to God and what is not. Jesus also warns people about false prophets who want to trick and deceive them so that they think there is more to living for Christ that what is simply stated in the NT. Sort of like warning against the kind of stuff you continue to push in these threads - showing that you are not interested in dialoguing but pushing an agenda and an interpretation of the Bible that is false.

The new versions of the Bible cannot destroy God's Word. It is only an attempt by man to divert from the truth. God's Word has withstood time and man and the devil himself. It is HIS WORD, not man's. God preserved His Word and He did it with English. If you cannot see the historical implications, then you will continue to struggle with the truth.

Proof that Hebrew is not as ancient as you have been taught by HR teachers who are completely ignorant of history:

Quote:2008:
Archaeologists have discovered what they say is the oldest Hebrew text ever found, at a site they believe was King David's front line fortress in the war against the people of Pleshet, also known as the Philistines. The site overlooks the Elah Valley, where the young David slew Goliath, the Philistine giant, with a well-aimed shot from a sling.

The text is written in ink on a pottery shard (ostracon). It is made up of five lines of text in Proto-Canaanite characters separated by lines. The discovery, by archaeologists Prof. Yossi Garfinkel and Sa'ar Ganor of Hebrew University, is being hailed as one of the most important finds in Israel since the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Carbon-14 dates to King David
The writing predates the Dead Sea Scrolls by about 1,000 years.

The writing on the shard seems to be a letter sent from one person to another and archaeologists have still not deciphered it completely. Preliminary analysis shows that it contains the words "king" (melech), "judge" (shofet), and "eved" (slave), and that the terms may be parts of names, as in "Achimelech" or "Evedel" (lit. "King's brother," "Servant of God").

Carbon-14 dating of olive pits as well as chemical analysis of the pottery found at the site shows conclusively that it dates from between 1,000 and 975 B.C.E – the time of King David's reign. David – who wrote the Psalms, unified the tribes of Israel and made Jerusalem the capital of the Israeli nation – is considered to be Israel's greatest King, whose reign ushered in the period in which the First Temple was built.

The writing therefore predates the Dead Sea Scrolls by about 1,000 years.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/128174

The problem with your HR teachers is that they don't do their homework. They parrot stuff one from another and the source at the beginning was all wrong, intentionally, to sensationalize and bring people into fear that they have been tricked and cannot know the truth unless they are Hebraically minded. They repeat the lies over and over again and spread it over 1000s of websites so that it becomes the truth. Sort of what Hitler did, but only with much more of a dangerous outcome - the denial of the new covenant and denial of Jesus Christ - which is spiritual death.

ps: If you agree on the origins of the name of "yahweh", then why do you use it?

We just agree to disagree. I am not back-peddling on anything. Nor do I think that my views should become your views. I just don't tend to stick to one group so to speak. I reiterate that I do not hold to any denomination. If you wish to believe I do then by all means knock yourself out. I have no control over what you do or believe. As listed below I have had a variety of listening to complement my reading. While I certainly don't agree with them on everything each have their interesting points. I have heard:

Dr. David Jeremiah
J. Vernon Mcgee
Charles Stanley
Adrian Rogers
Alistair Begg
Don Gossett
Charles Capps
James Scudder
Joyce Meyer
Noah Hutchings
Woodrow Kroll
Charles Morris
Dr. Stanley Monteith
John Cathcart
Kate Mcveigh
James Montgomery Boice
Sid Roth
Bernie Timmerman
Ravi Zacharias
Dr. James Dobson
Foley Beach
Rick Amato
Stanley Koukl
Kenneth Hagin
Stan Johnson
Paul Tebbano
Jerry Lynn
Charlie Mueller
Ray Barnett
Stephen Arterburn
Irvin Baxter
Michael Rood
Jonathan Bernis
Lonnie Melashenko
Jack Van Impe
Billy Graham
Zola Levitt
Michael Youssef
Perry Stone
R.W. Shambach

I have several KJV Bibles. 1 Jewish bible, The Scriptures, Foxe's Book of Martyrs, Concordances and a Vines Expository dictionary.

Am I an expert? No. Am I constantly learning? Yes. Am I ignorant of history? Yes, I am currently trying to learn. People are always ignorant of history. People generally don't research the facts, they just take what someone says as truth. That is why when it comes to the bible we should heed:

"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that
needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth."
--2 Tim. 2:15.

So that's what I do. I study to show myself approved unto god. I don't study to see if what you say is right or to prove you wrong.

Anyway thanks for the debate. I find it refreshing and interesting and even learn along the way!

(04-15-2010 09:05 PM)carl39 Wrote: [ -> ]We just agree to disagree. I am not back-peddling on anything. Nor do I think that my views should become your views. I just don't tend to stick to one group so to speak. I reiterate that I do not hold to any denomination. If you wish to believe I do then by all means knock yourself out. I have no control over what you do or believe. As listed below I have had a variety of listening to complement my reading. While I certainly don't agree with them on everything each have their interesting points. I have heard:

[sheep: list deleted quite happily]

I have several KJV Bibles. 1 Jewish bible, The Scriptures, Foxe's Book of Martyrs, Concordances and a Vines Expository dictionary.

Am I an expert? No. Am I constantly learning? Yes. Am I ignorant of history? Yes, I am currently trying to learn. People are always ignorant of history. People generally don't research the facts, they just take what someone says as truth. That is why when it comes to the bible we should heed:

"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that
needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth."
--2 Tim. 2:15.

So that's what I do. I study to show myself approved unto god. I don't study to see if what you say is right or to prove you wrong.

Anyway thanks for the debate. I find it refreshing and interesting and even learn along the way!

You proved my point with your list of teachers. All of which are false, and many HR and charismatic Christ deniers. So you are doubleminded. First you say to study the Word and now you promote a huge list of wolves among the sheep as "spiritual guides". We are to prove all things - something that seems to be anathema to you.

You find the "debate" refreshing and I am horrified by not only your list of "teachers", but by your gnostic approach to God. It's sad ...

Any reason why you don't answer the questions put to you? or do you think you are above doing that?

You find the "debate" refreshing and I am horrified by not only your list of "teachers", but by your gnostic approach to God. It's sad ...

No what is sad is according to your home page it reads:

This website is an independent Christian research and apologetics ministry focusing on Articles to Encourage, and Research Articles to Warn and educate about things such as the Global Ecumenical Movement, (One World Religion) and involving groups from the Occult and New Age, to Evangelicals, Catholics, Pentecostals, Jews, Charismatics, Messianics, Hebrew Roots and others. People have every right to believe what they wish.

What you really mean is People have every right to believe what they wish as long as it is in line with the administrators here. Hence the constant belittling and name calling. I mean can you really sit there and examine yourself in the light of christ and think that the way you present your ideas and scoff and demean other people is pleasing to him? Do you really think your way of belittling and demeaning people is going to expand the kingdom? You would do well to follow the way of the one you say is your lord and saviour.

Jhn 4:15 The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw.
Jhn 4:16 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither.
Jhn 4:17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband:
Jhn 4:18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.

Notice he did not call her a ***** or demean her. He presented the truth in a manner that convicted her.

Jhn 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

This site is about what we believe based on our research and on our understanding of the Scriptures.

Exactly! It is your understanding and belief. And that only. I was laughing all night as I knew what your response would be. I Knew that you would find fault with the list. I was actually surprised that every single one of them are wrong and by some magical act you have all the right answers. So here's something productive to do. Why not enlighten everyone of them to their errors. I know that you being a child of god and believer in christ do not relish the thought of them going hell for their transgressions.

Any reason why you don't answer the questions put to you? or do you think you are above doing that?[/b][/color]


I pose the same question to you in regard to the following:

All one has to do is check a concordance for meanings of names. I have been doing that for years and I hardly know a drop of Hebrew. Also, the names in the Bible are not original names - at least up till about 900BC because the OT was written in proto-canaanite/akkadian - a pagan language.

Please provide references on this?

You proved my point with your list of teachers. All of which are false, and many HR and charismatic Christ deniers. So you are doubleminded. First you say to study the Word and now you promote a huge list of wolves among the sheep as "spiritual guides". We are to prove all things - something that seems to be anathema to you.

No you seem to have a problem understanding what you are reading in posts. I in no way endorsed those teachers. I just said that I have listened to various people and provided a list. I laughed all night as I knew what your response would be. I was a little surprised that every one of those listed is wrong and by some magical act you have all the right answers. You should be ashamed of yourself as on the homepage it states:

This website is an independent Christian research and apologetics ministry focusing on Articles to Encourage, and Research Articles to Warn and educate about things such as the Global Ecumenical Movement, (One World Religion) and involving groups from the Occult and New Age, to Evangelicals, Catholics, Pentecostals, Jews, Charismatics, Messianics, Hebrew Roots and others. [b]People have every right to believe what they wish.

What it should state is "People have every right to believe what they wish, but be prepared to be belittled and have condescending remarks made at the poster's expense. If their beliefs don't line up with the administrators."

This site is about what we believe based on our research and on our understanding of the Scriptures.

Well said. It your belief and understanding. I am in no way inclined or led to believe that you have a lock on understanding the scriptures. Actually quite the contrary happens here. I find it hard to believe that you can examine yourself in the light of christ and can believe that you are following him in the condescending and belittling manner in which you treat people.


You find the "debate" refreshing and I am horrified by not only your list of "teachers", but by your gnostic approach to God. It's sad ...

No what is sad is the manner that you conduct yourself on this forum. But hey when you are the administrator you call the shots so that's great for you. Belittle and condescend the folks until they leave or you "regretfully" have to ban them for "breaking the rules of the forum."



Any reason why you don't answer the questions put to you? or do you think you are above doing that?[/b]


I ask you the same. I have asked for references on things such as:

All one has to do is check a concordance for meanings of names. I have been doing that for years and I hardly know a drop of Hebrew. Also, the names in the Bible are not original names - at least up till about 900BC because the OT was written in proto-canaanite/akkadian - a pagan language.

Please provide references on this?

So in closing please go ahead and ban me if you wish. I expect that anyway. However if you would like good, open, honest debate without the condescension and belittling. I would be happy to engage in that.

(04-16-2010 08:39 AM)carl39 Wrote: [ -> ]You find the "debate" refreshing and I am horrified by not only your list of "teachers", but by your gnostic approach to God. It's sad ...

No what is sad is according to your home page it reads:

This website is an independent Christian research and apologetics ministry focusing on Articles to Encourage, and Research Articles to Warn and educate about things such as the Global Ecumenical Movement, (One World Religion) and involving groups from the Occult and New Age, to Evangelicals, Catholics, Pentecostals, Jews, Charismatics, Messianics, Hebrew Roots and others. People have every right to believe what they wish.

What you really mean is People have every right to believe what they wish as long as it is in line with the administrators here. Hence the constant belittling and name calling. I mean can you really sit there and examine yourself in the light of christ and think that the way you present your ideas and scoff and demean other people is pleasing to him? Do you really think your way of belittling and demeaning people is going to expand the kingdom? You would do well to follow the way of the one you say is your lord and saviour.

Jhn 4:15 The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw.
Jhn 4:16 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither.
Jhn 4:17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband:
Jhn 4:18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.

Notice he did not call her a ***** or demean her. He presented the truth in a manner that convicted her.

Jhn 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

This site is about what we believe based on our research and on our understanding of the Scriptures.

Exactly! It is your understanding and belief. And that only. I was laughing all night as I knew what your response would be. I Knew that you would find fault with the list. I was actually surprised that every single one of them are wrong and by some magical act you have all the right answers. So here's something productive to do. Why not enlighten everyone of them to their errors. I know that you being a child of god and believer in christ do not relish the thought of them going hell for their transgressions.

Any reason why you don't answer the questions put to you? or do you think you are above doing that?[/b][/color]


I pose the same question to you in regard to the following:

All one has to do is check a concordance for meanings of names. I have been doing that for years and I hardly know a drop of Hebrew. Also, the names in the Bible are not original names - at least up till about 900BC because the OT was written in proto-canaanite/akkadian - a pagan language.

Please provide references on this?

Carl, Sheep Wrecked is not owner of this web site or forum. I am.

You are making accusatory statements to an admin of this forum that do not apply. You can give Sheep an apology on that if you like. Further you totally ignored MY POST TO YOU> as admin and owner of this website and forum---NOT A GOOD IDEA. Then you go and post this spew? You need to reread the forum rules concerning attacking admins. or this website. You agreed to those rules when you joined. You have an issue--take it private. But DO NOT bring it to the forum like this again. THis will be your only warning on these issues. You do it again and I will permanently ban you and you won't have the option of joining again under a different nic as you have done.

Your stay here will be short lived if you continue in this vein. Take me very seriously on this Carl.