SeekGod.ca Discussion Forum

Specifically, I am referring to people on this forum, but more generally to religious leaders and followers who are Gentiles claiming Judaism. All of the admins on this site, and at least one reader, SheitlQueen, can spot Hebrew Roots/Messyantics at the drop of a hat. What are the signs that raise red flags, aside from usernames (on forums such as this), claimed Jewish ancestry, and adopted contrived "Hebrew" and "Aramaic" names?

(03-02-2010 11:33 AM)YYZ Skinhead Wrote: [ -> ]Specifically, I am referring to people on this forum, but more generally to religious leaders and followers who are Gentiles claiming Judaism. All of the admins on this site, and at least one reader, SheitlQueen, can spot Hebrew Roots/Messyantics at the drop of a hat. What are the signs that raise red flags, aside from usernames (on forums such as this), claimed Jewish ancestry, and adopted contrived "Hebrew" and "Aramaic" names?

Hey LM,

Interesting question. I guess you could get different reasons from each of us, but for me, it's what is said, how it is said, and what the focus is.

There are phrasings and concepts that an actual Christian would not think or speak in those terms. The focus is rarely Christ...it's always something else, some concept, some phrase, and either Torah or Moses or something....that preempts focus on Christ. It really is knowing the movement and the ideas behind it that helps one recognise people involved in it--some unknowingly at first. Like the catch phrase of getting back to our Jewish roots or we have lost our mooring in our Jewishness....etc....looking for the God of Israel while claiming to believe in the Messiah---which Messiah? Christian's don't refer to Christ in these ways. It's knowing what it is to serve Christ and what it means to be in HR. There's so many intricacies, and even writing in english and hebrew...a practice found in Judaism because most are studied in Hebrew in Yeshivas and so are familiar with the terms used, but Christians don't normally mix languages in a conversation. Unless the topic is study of those.

The reason for that is what Paul said:

1 Corinthians 14:18-20 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 19. Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. 20. Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

Most in HR don't take long to spot in a conversation because they want to spread their doctrine and convert Christians....so, it's a matter of often just letting people talk. However, when we know on the forum, we want the readers to be aware asap, so they can pick up on what is being presented.

Does this help?

That was essentially what I was wondering. I haven't read a lot of Jewish religious writings so I wasn't consciously aware of the mixing of English and Hebrew, nor did I realize that most Christians don't refer to Christ as "Messiah" nor call God "The God of Israel". I say "God of Israel" all the time and didn't know there was anything odd about a Christian saying it, since that Name and the interchangeable "God of Jacob" are used in Scripture. It would stand to reason that Judaism and Christianity use different terminology, since they are different faiths who both worship God the Father but disagree about God the Son.

(I've had to remind myself for years of Paul's statement about speaking a thousand words in an unknown tongue because I tend to prefer six-syllable Latin- or Greek-based words to their one-syllable Anglo-Saxon synonyms. )

(03-02-2010 01:26 PM)YYZ Skinhead Wrote: [ -> ] That was essentially what I was wondering. I haven't read a lot of Jewish religious writings so I wasn't consciously aware of the mixing of English and Hebrew, nor did I realize that most Christians don't refer to Christ as "Messiah" nor call God "The God of Israel". I say "God of Israel" all the time and didn't know there was anything odd about a Christian saying it, since that Name and the interchangeable "God of Jacob" are used in Scripture. It would stand to reason that Judaism and Christianity use different terminology, since they are different faiths who both worship God the Father but disagree about God the Son.

(I've had to remind myself for years of Paul's statement about speaking a thousand words in an unknown tongue because I tend to prefer six-syllable Latin- or Greek-based words to their one-syllable Anglo-Saxon synonyms. )

There's nothing wrong with saying "God of Israel" "God of Jacob" but if you notice what else is being said in conjuction with those, you see the focus is different for HR. Most Christians would agree with the phrasing that He is the Messiah, but would refer to Him as Christ or Jesus etc. , because that's the english way of saying it. In fact, the term messiah [hebrew> mashiyach] is not used in the KJV, except in 2 verses in Daniel. The hebrew word for it is used in 37 verses in the OT with it used as anointed. In the NT, anointed is Christos in greek and Christ in english .

Again if you look at what else is being said --I guess context would definitely apply, and what is said around these things. It's looking at the details within the whole picture in a post[s].

Yes Judaism and Chrsitianity have some things that we agree on --and Almighty God is a major part of that agreement. And yes because of Christ, views of many Scriptures are interpreted differently. Which is why to source rabbinic writings and their interpretation, when they reject Christ and the NT, is really contrary to believing Christ fulfilled the prophecies, aka the law and the prophets. You can't have it both ways in understandings. Which is what HR tries to do. And they end up with a new belief system, by pulling bits and pieces from both. All the while claiming it's the original faith of the apostles....

(03-02-2010 11:33 AM)YYZ Skinhead Wrote: [ -> ]Specifically, I am referring to people on this forum, but more generally to religious leaders and followers who are Gentiles claiming Judaism. All of the admins on this site, and at least one reader, SheitlQueen, can spot Hebrew Roots/Messyantics at the drop of a hat. What are the signs that raise red flags, aside from usernames (on forums such as this), claimed Jewish ancestry, and adopted contrived "Hebrew" and "Aramaic" names?

It's kind of like any venue that you are involved with - you get to know the "lingo". You can pick out phrases, terms, and imagery that is occultic and new age and we have become "experts" in HR and charismania terminology

Like Vic said, it sometimes only takes a few words and you can spot them right away. When someone says they are "seeking the 1 true God of Israel" - that is a dead give away, at least for me. The use of "Messiah" is usually an attempt to remain somewhat "neutral" until they can introduce their favorite sacred name And notice that they did not answer my question They only posted scriptures which have nothing to do with what I asked

(03-02-2010 01:26 PM)YYZ Skinhead Wrote: [ -> ] That was essentially what I was wondering. I haven't read a lot of Jewish religious writings so I wasn't consciously aware of the mixing of English and Hebrew, nor did I realize that most Christians don't refer to Christ as "Messiah" nor call God "The God of Israel". I say "God of Israel" all the time and didn't know there was anything odd about a Christian saying it, since that Name and the interchangeable "God of Jacob" are used in Scripture. It would stand to reason that Judaism and Christianity use different terminology, since they are different faiths who both worship God the Father but disagree about God the Son.

(I've had to remind myself for years of Paul's statement about speaking a thousand words in an unknown tongue because I tend to prefer six-syllable Latin- or Greek-based words to their one-syllable Anglo-Saxon synonyms. )

I know it's pretty much standard thinking to apply "different faiths", but all worship God the Father. Islam also believes that the God of Abraham is their god as well. So how does one define if a religious "faith" is true to the Bible? and can truly claim God as Father?

This is what Jesus said:

Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Joh 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Joh 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
Joh 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
Joh 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
Joh 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Joh 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

So Jesus is saying, if you don't have Him, you don't have/know God the Father.

(03-02-2010 11:33 AM)YYZ Skinhead Wrote: [ -> ]Specifically, I am referring to people on this forum, but more generally to religious leaders and followers who are Gentiles claiming Judaism. All of the admins on this site, and at least one reader, SheitlQueen, can spot Hebrew Roots/Messyantics at the drop of a hat. What are the signs that raise red flags, aside from usernames (on forums such as this), claimed Jewish ancestry, and adopted contrived "Hebrew" and "Aramaic" names?

You've pretty much named them-using silly "Hebrew" names, using
yiddish and Hebrew terminology (oy vey!) all the time, that even Jews don't
do (we don't go around opening or closing all our posts with "shalom"),
trying to find any Jewish ancestry to make themselves legitimate. They
also WAY over do anything Jewish- if you have looked at photos on line they are almost always wearing a tallis and yarmulke, even when there is no need, blowing huge shofars, decking their "synagogues" out with so much Jewish stuff it looks absolutely ridiculous. They also frequently make mistakes in pronunciations, terminology, and Jewish
practices.

If they are trying to out Jew Jews, they're gentile Messies.

---

Oh, let's not forget that they like to claim Christmas and Easter, as well as much of Christianity, is now "pagan".

(03-03-2010 01:57 PM)SheitlQueen Wrote: [ -> ]You've pretty much named them-using silly "Hebrew" names, using
yiddish and Hebrew terminology (oy vey!) all the time, that even Jews don't
do (we don't go around opening or closing all our posts with "shalom"),
trying to find any Jewish ancestry to make themselves legitimate. They
also WAY over do anything Jewish- if you have looked at photos on line they are almost always wearing a tallis and yarmulke, even when there is no need, blowing huge shofars, decking their "synagogues" out with so much Jewish stuff it looks absolutely ridiculous. They also frequently make mistakes in pronunciations, terminology, and Jewish
practices.

If they are trying to out Jew Jews, they're gentile Messies.

---

Oh, let's not forget that they like to claim Christmas and Easter, as well as much of Christianity, is now "pagan".

Funny you should mention "shalom" - which you stated is used at the end/beginning of posts, plus emails and articles. I have seen the use of "shalom shalom" used a lot, and recently, "shalom shalom shalom" --- making me wonder if the number of "shaloms" makes one more Jewish/Hebraic

(03-03-2010 03:56 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: [ -> ]I have seen the use of "shalom shalom" used a lot, and recently, "shalom shalom shalom" --- making me wonder if the number of "shaloms" makes one more Jewish/Hebraic
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I told you they like to over do everything!
If only they could see how silly they look....