Hello,
I've been perusing this site a lot recently and decided it was time to officially join.
A year and a half ago, my husband and I returned from serving Him in China because we were expecting our first child. Due to our financial situation we decided to move in temporarily with his parents. Upon our return home we found that his parents, along with several other families from our church, had left the church and just begun digging into their Hebrew Roots. I immediately saw red flags. A couple of the other families did too, and went back to the church. Unfortunately, my husband also has concluded that we are to be Torah observant, although he confesses he still doesn't know exactly what that looks like (and thankfully has not gotten into the teachings of any of those that his family has, such as Rico Cortes, Tony Robinson, Monte Judah, FFOZ, HaYesod studies). He searches the Scripture alone now, so it is my prayer that God will eventually bring the big picture all together in his heart and mind. We are no longer part of the Saturday Torah studies (because I was disrupting the flow of the study, always disagreeing with things that were being said and on occasion breaking down in tears because I was simply overwhelmed with being the only one there that wasn't buying into this and being frustrated that I was not able to keep up with having answers to all the false / dangerous stuff I was hearing.) They did not ask me to leave, but rather my husband and I decided that would be best. We do continue to participate in Friday evening "Shabbat" as well as the other feasts.
All of this has created a division in my marriage and a tremendous amount of tension between my mother-in-law and me. I am learning to have genuine love for my brothers and sisters in Christ and am genuinely burdened for them. I am also learning to depend on the Lord for ALL things.
Thank you for this site that has so much helpful information on what I am dealing with.
In His Grip,[/i]
(04-20-2010 03:41 PM)Vic Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2010 03:17 PM)DaughteroftheKing Wrote: [ -> ]Hello,
I've been perusing this site a lot recently and decided it was time to officially join.
A year and a half ago, my husband and I returned from serving Him in China because we were expecting our first child. Due to our financial situation we decided to move in temporarily with his parents. Upon our return home we found that his parents, along with several other families from our church, had left the church and just begun digging into their Hebrew Roots. I immediately saw red flags. A couple of the other families did too, and went back to the church. Unfortunately, my husband also has concluded that we are to be Torah observant, although he confesses he still doesn't know exactly what that looks like (and thankfully has not gotten into the teachings of any of those that his family has, such as Rico Cortes, Tony Robinson, Monte Judah, FFOZ, HaYesod studies). He searches the Scripture alone now, so it is my prayer that God will eventually bring the big picture all together in his heart and mind. We are no longer part of the Saturday Torah studies (because I was disrupting the flow of the study, always disagreeing with things that were being said and on occasion breaking down in tears because I was simply overwhelmed with being the only one there that wasn't buying into this and being frustrated that I was not able to keep up with having answers to all the false / dangerous stuff I was hearing.) They did not ask me to leave, but rather my husband and I decided that would be best. We do continue to participate in Friday evening "Shabbat" as well as the other feasts.
All of this has created a division in my marriage and a tremendous amount of tension between my mother-in-law and me. I am learning to have genuine love for my brothers and sisters in Christ and am genuinely burdened for them. I am also learning to depend on the Lord for ALL things.
Thank you for this site that has so much helpful information on what I am dealing with.
In His Grip,[/i]
Words can't express the sadness I feel for what you are going through. And it is something that we hear almost weekly now. If there was ever eveidence of something amiss, it is the fruit of what you are in. Who is supposed to cause division in a marriage between a husband and wife and that happens more often than not with HR. And people miss the fruit issue so easily.
I know the arguments are almost limitless that are used to attempt to justify HR. I also know that only God can give understanding and bring people out of it. I encourage you to rest in HIm knowing that He is not going to abandon your faithfulness. I hope you find the fellowship and encouragement and help here that you desire. I do encourage you to read the HR FAQS, print them out and offer them as a joint study with your husband. THey are the HR arguments and they are refuted Scripturally and factually. Challenge him to go through them and see if he can prove what he is believing based on fact and scripture alone, not opinion of those. Not conjecture. Provable fact and scripture. KNowing the NT is the New covenant and what that means and denial of that is denial of Christ. These are foundational things. Your husband knows them, he just needs to remember them. We will be praying for you all.
Thanks for this suggestion. We just started meeting with another couple whose marriage has been divided because of this as well. It is our intention to start plodding through the main issues. I will suggest using this FAQ sheet as a guide to our study. Such a blessing to have this resource! Thanks again.
In His Grip,
Daughter of the King
(04-20-2010 05:13 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: [ -> ]
I really hope you will find some solace and support here. If anyone understand the dynamics of the disagreements between Torah observance or not, it's on this forum. As Vic said - we hear it constantly and often deal with people in the same boat as you.
I used to be Torah observant and deeply involved in all things Jewish and in law keeping. I kept the Sabbath, kashrut, new moons, feasts, and the sabbaths connected with them. I believe that I was being obedient to God. Please read my testimony on my blog - the link is under my nic at the bottom. Perhaps the information there will be helpful as well as the HRfaqs on Vic's website - Rose provided the link.
It was a difficult process coming out of Hebrew Roots, but with the help of friends who pointed me to the Scriptures, God removed my blindness. I pray that He does the same for your husband. The truth is in God's Word - it is not hidden or kept secret from the church like HR wants you to believe.
and prayers ...
It is such an encouragement to hear the testimony of someone who has come out of this. It does give me so much hope! I know He is faithful. It is my desire that He be glorified through all of this in the end and that He would be glorified through a marriage that is unified!
In His Grip,
Daughter of the King
Daughteroftheking
I was also caught up in some of the hebrew roots stuff and thought we still had to keep the Law of Moses or the parts that of it that we could still do.
At the time a well meaning friend encouraged me to read Galatians and to be honest I did not.It was only much later when I read the book of Galatians,from an RSV bible I had,not the Stern's that I had been using,that I saw that what I was reading was showing me that we were not bound to the Law of Moses anymore since it formed part of a Covenant that was made obsolete and replaced by a much better one with a different set of promises.
Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
When my eyes began to be opened to the fact that what I had been believing was not correct I began to see Paul and his words in a new light.
His letter to the Galatians was addressing the issues that we are facing in the HR movement today.Many of the things he said in his other letters also addresses the problems.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Gal 5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
Gal 5:8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.
Gal 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
Will be keeping your and the other family in prayer!
(04-20-2010 06:28 PM)Emjesown Wrote: [ -> ]Rebecca
I have something for you
look at it yourself first and then decie if its time for your husband to watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIkV-_JGr...Er6e--J7bw
Emje
Hi Daughter of the King;
I am new here too, sorting out what is right/not right in my head. I watched this video and it is still confusing for me, and could be for your husband too. One slide the narrator says "Oh Gentile, why do you burden yourself with keeping of feasts" (2:39).. but later quotes Scripture as "He told His disciples 'When you partake of the Passover', remember it is about me" (3:53). That would seem contradictory, or is it my brain?
(05-24-2010 07:30 PM)Dee Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2010 06:28 PM)Emjesown Wrote: [ -> ]Rebecca
I have something for you
look at it yourself first and then decie if its time for your husband to watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIkV-_JGr...Er6e--J7bw
Emje
Hi Daughter of the King;
I am new here too, sorting out what is right/not right in my head. I watched this video and it is still confusing for me, and could be for your husband too. One slide the narrator says "Oh Gentile, why do you burden yourself with keeping of feasts" (2:39).. but later quotes Scripture as "He told His disciples 'When you partake of the Passover', remember it is about me" (3:53). That would seem contradictory, or is it my brain?
Hi Dee, I agree with you that the video can be confusing. While I agree with the premise, it was not helpful. It was not relevant to the issues my husband and I have been wrestling through. I'm not sure why the creator of this video has chosen to misquote Jesus. She has Jesus quoted as saying, "When you partake of the passover, remember it is all about me, I am the body and the blood that was given for you..." and "...I am the fulfillment of your feasts." I can find these nowhere in the four gospels. Perhaps she meant to paraphrase, but then she shouldn't have treated it as a direct quote.
Luke 22:14 says; And when the hour came, he reclined at table, and the apostles with him. And he said to them, "I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. For I tell you I will not eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God." And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he said, "Take this, and divide it among yourselves. For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes." And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me." And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood."
This was the institution of the Lord's Supper. (See also 1 Corinthians 11:23-26.) He never said, "When you partake of the Passover..." There was something very significant happening at that gathering before Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection. Worth the time to study.
Would love to dialogue with you more.
(05-25-2010 10:38 AM)DaughteroftheKing Wrote: [ -> ] (05-24-2010 07:30 PM)Dee Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2010 06:28 PM)Emjesown Wrote: [ -> ]Rebecca
I have something for you
look at it yourself first and then decie if its time for your husband to watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIkV-_JGr...Er6e--J7bw
Emje
Hi Daughter of the King;
I am new here too, sorting out what is right/not right in my head. I watched this video and it is still confusing for me, and could be for your husband too. One slide the narrator says "Oh Gentile, why do you burden yourself with keeping of feasts" (2:39).. but later quotes Scripture as "He told His disciples 'When you partake of the Passover', remember it is about me" (3:53). That would seem contradictory, or is it my brain?
Hi Dee, I agree with you that the video can be confusing. While I agree with the premise, it was not helpful. It was not relevant to the issues my husband and I have been wrestling through. I'm not sure why the creator of this video has chosen to misquote Jesus. She has Jesus quoted as saying, "When you partake of the passover, remember it is all about me, I am the body and the blood that was given for you..." and "...I am the fulfillment of your feasts." I can find these nowhere in the four gospels. Perhaps she meant to paraphrase, but then she shouldn't have treated it as a direct quote.
Luke 22:14 says; And when the hour came, he reclined at table, and the apostles with him. And he said to them, "I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. For I tell you I will not eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God." And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he said, "Take this, and divide it among yourselves. For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes." And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me." And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood."
This was the institution of the Lord's Supper. (See also 1 Corinthians 11:23-26.) He never said, "When you partake of the Passover..." There was something very significant happening at that gathering before Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection. Worth the time to study.
Would love to dialogue with you more.
Yes, people who want to teach really should keep to the text of the Word. I dislike assumptions and "adding to Scripture" on both sides of the coin. I had a discussion with some messianics on a chat forum about why they have a 'doctrine' of head covering. They have taken a small line from Paul's reply to a church's problem and have mandatory head coverings for women (not men though). There are many problems in the "messy" movement. PM me anytime
Actually you sound just like me when I was attending the local "Torah study" group. I was the rebellious one showing that the reason why the Jews were doing all these other things, long prayers that they follow, added time-consuming traditions for the feast times (even the song Dayenu is sung at Passover because if follows the rules of the Talmud! I call it 'strange fire' and even made up a song about it lol) was because in 1Jn 2:22 and elsewhere it clearly states that they that reject Jesus -son of the Most High- as their Messiah, by default they lose the Father as well, and by Scripture's judgement are called LIARS. Jesus called them sons of their father satan. Those without the "Passover lamb's" blood taking away their sins need prayer. Most of the Messianics I know, do not follow the Law for salvation however, and do recognise the True Passover Lamb. They are just adopting all the "vain/ worthless" stuff.
I am wondering about some things pertaining to Spiritual Warfare. Instead of getting angry and attacking the symptoms of mind control (on each side- the modern churches are full of New Age mystical stuff and "herding mentality" too), it would be good to pray aggressively for binding of evil and deliverance of powers, etc. For ex. there could be transferred spirits of fear during feasts or services- fear of using the wrong Name, fear of not being perfect. There is a good website I am reading on the subject.
