Divorce is forbidden except in cases of fornication. What if you have an abusive spouse? What if he or she calls you names and knocks you around? What if he or she beats your kids? Is there a means of escape from somebody who does this?
Also, why can a person who was divorced for some other reason than cheating, not remarry, since it wasn't their fault?
(06-21-2010 11:25 AM)sheep wrecked Wrote: [ -> ] (06-20-2010 11:04 PM)YYZ Skinhead Wrote: [ -> ]Divorce is forbidden except in cases of fornication. What if you have an abusive spouse? What if he or she calls you names and knocks you around? What if he or she beats your kids? Is there a means of escape from somebody who does this?
Also, why can a person who was divorced for some other reason than cheating, not remarry, since it wasn't their fault?
I think sometimes the approach on divorce and remarriage has been twisted and mangled by reading the Bible from a biased or taught reference point. When I grew up, divorce was considered the unforgivable sin and those who did were expelled from the church.
MANY pastors tell women to remain in abusive relationships as they are being "tested" and "persecuted" for the Lord and He will give them the strength to endure. I am SO serious.
In my opinion the definition of adultery is more inclusive of just marital unfaithfulness - israel was considered adulterous because of their worship of idols. If a man or woman are not under the authority of God, then they not of Him.
We are called to live in peace, not knocked around physically and verbally. Turning the other cheek has nothing to do with this kind of abuse and I consider it to a complete break of the marriage covenant. If a father is abusing and molesting your children and you do not remove yourself and them, I think you are as guilty as the perp.
1 Corinthians 7 is an excellent chapter on this topic. It can be a little difficult to grasp I think, but the bottom line is really submission to God and His will. As someone who has been divorced, it is the most heartwrenching destructive time when friends and family throw you to the dogs. I wrestled with Scripture constantly because I was afraid I had failed God. In the end my ex left me and eventually filed for divorce, but it was a traumatic time. Thank God, my relationship with Him was secure and He gave me much peace a comfort through it all.
As far as remarriage - that is between the person and God. Paul stated that one should not seek to remarry, but so many are divorced these days with children and the economy which makes it hard unless there are two adults working and contributing and caring for the kids, I see it as a real gray area. I have known many people who have remarried and reflect the love of God and have godly, secure marriages. So what can I say to that?
I am
very relieved that you posted this. I have read most of 1Cor 7 many times, but when you referred me to it I found this verse that summarizes your reply:
1Cor 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart.
A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such [cases]: but God hath called us to peace.
I had barely noticed that particular verse, and until you posted the metaphorical example of Israel committing adultery, I had always assumed that "fornication" referred to literal fornication. As you said, an abusive spouse is not of God because they are disobeying God's many commands that married people are one flesh and should love each other.
I am so sorry you had to suffer the torture of an acrimonious divorce, and that my posting this would bring up those awful memories. I probably shouldn't have posted this, because you are one of the last people I'd want to remind of that nightmare.
Pastors telling wives to endure abusive husbands: it's depressing, but it isn't surprising. A LOT of "Christian" leaders and writers are really big on pushing "dominant male/submissive female" (even saying junk like "female Bible teachers are unacceptable") and probably most of us know the verses they always use. Years of reading and hearing religious teachers say this stuff killed a lot of my faith and led to my believing that the Bible was sexist and God didn't care much about women. I believed that for years because of "traditions of men".
I am still somewhat worried, God forbid, that I might end up with an abusive husband because I was often abusive and cruel to my parents. Fortunately I have an abusive roommate, whom I can't get rid of because he pays part of the rent. I thank God for letting me get chastised
before I get married, and I often ask Him to get the punishment I deserve from somebody to whom I am NOT married.
(06-21-2010 03:09 PM)YYZ Skinhead Wrote: [ -> ]I am very relieved that you posted this. I have read most of 1Cor 7 many times, but when you referred me to it I found this verse that summarizes your reply:
1Cor 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such [cases]: but God hath called us to peace.
I had barely noticed that particular verse, and until you posted the metaphorical example of Israel committing adultery, I had always assumed that "fornication" referred to literal fornication. As you said, an abusive spouse is not of God because they are disobeying God's many commands that married people are one flesh and should love each other.
I am so sorry you had to suffer the torture of an acrimonious divorce, and that my posting this would bring up those awful memories. I probably shouldn't have posted this, because you are one of the last people I'd want to remind of that nightmare.
Pastors telling wives to endure abusive husbands: it's depressing, but it isn't surprising. A LOT of "Christian" leaders and writers are really big on pushing "dominant male/submissive female" (even saying junk like "female Bible teachers are unacceptable") and probably most of us know the verses they always use. Years of reading and hearing religious teachers say this stuff killed a lot of my faith and led to my believing that the Bible was sexist and God didn't care much about women. I believed that for years because of "traditions of men".
I am still somewhat worried, God forbid, that I might end up with an abusive husband because I was often abusive and cruel to my parents. Fortunately I have an abusive roommate, whom I can't get rid of because he pays part of the rent. I thank God for letting me get chastised before I get married, and I often ask Him to get the punishment I deserve from somebody to whom I am NOT married.
Not to worry about dredging up stuff - it's all part of life. all that was 10 years ago and is past and over. God uses those times to strengthen us, teach us, and most importantly turn them into good for His glory. He has blessed me with so much since with a boatload of grandkids, friends, and daughters who are angels 
All I went through is just a distant memory. I am grateful to be able to share and encourage others going through similar stuff.
God forgives us when we confess our sin to Him - He does not punish us by allowing marriage to an abusive spouse. Some times we endure the consequences of sin, but the sin itself is cleansed from us. I understand about the financial burden and allowing an abusive person to live with you, but have you tried to find a different roommate?
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleans us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
God chastises us because of unrepentant sin, it is not a punishment to make life harsh to teach us a lesson out of some cruel vengance. If you picked your roommate, then it was your choice methinks, not God's chastisement
You are right about the role that women have in the church at large. I love it when people think God is against women cause there are a zillion examples in the Bible to prove otherwise. NT scripts are often taken out of context and in some cases the word "women" can also be "wife" which changes the meanings dramatically. My favorite example that covers both issues is Mary Magdalene who was chosen to first declare the Gospel to the disciples. Awesome!!! 
(06-21-2010 04:13 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: [ -> ]Not to worry about dredging up stuff - it's all part of life. all that was 10 years ago and is past and over. God uses those times to strengthen us, teach us, and most importantly turn them into good for His glory. He has blessed me with so much since with a boatload of grandkids, friends, and daughters who are angels All I went through is just a distant memory. I am grateful to be able to share and encourage others going through similar stuff.
God forgives us when we confess our sin to Him - He does not punish us by allowing marriage to an abusive spouse. Some times we endure the consequences of sin, but the sin itself is cleansed from us. I understand about the financial burden and allowing an abusive person to live with you, but have you tried to find a different roommate?
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleans us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
God chastises us because of unrepentant sin, it is not a punishment to make life harsh to teach us a lesson out of some cruel vengance. If you picked your roommate, then it was your choice methinks, not God's chastisement
You are right about the role that women have in the church at large. I love it when people think God is against women cause there are a zillion examples in the Bible to prove otherwise. NT scripts are often taken out of context and in some cases the word "women" can also be "wife" which changes the meanings dramatically. My favorite example that covers both issues is Mary Magdalene who was chosen to first declare the Gospel to the disciples. Awesome!!!
I actually have two roommates, and the other is not abusive. The one who is did not act the way he does now, when I first agreed to rent the room. I wasn't "blaming" God for what this guy says to me and about me, I just thought He was using the guy to show me how my parents felt when I screamed at them and called them names. I'm afraid that if I kick this guy out he'll get revenge on me by dumping me in a nuthouse, because he threatened to do that. I would NEVER have let this guy live in my house if I had known he wasn't trustworthy.
Oh well! Issues on Divorce is a very confused subject to talk about! for example getting a divorce on the real reason on grounds of unfaithfulness related to adultery, sex lifestyle change or abusive relationships in home! For me to say It is not a sin ! But if getting a divorce on no reason grounds by the covetness or being greed more than being content! while the first former marriage is in good standing! then for me it is s sin to them that getting a divorce ! that is my whole view on that issues Just my opinion! thanks!
