SeekGod.ca Discussion Forum

http://www.seekgod.ca/hr/hrfaqs3a2.htm#kosher

I would like to begin by noting that God's covenant or law which He gave Israel was not for salvation, but so that the people would prosper and their days would be prolonged.

Deut 29:9
Keep therefore the words of this covenant, and do them, that ye may prosper in all that ye do.
(KJV)

Deut 5:16
Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
(KJV)

Also, we can find two people in the New Testament who were said to be walking blamelessly in all the commandments:

Luke 1:5-6
There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
(KJV)

Perhaps, Christ still expects us to follow His laws, but not the ones that are man-made (Mat 15:9). Let's see what He has said regarding this subject matter.

Matt 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
(KJV)

Matt 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
(KJV)


Mark 12:29-31
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
(KJV)

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
(KJV)

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
(KJV)

Rev 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
(KJV)

In regards to the Feasts of the Lord, a big question remains; Why were some of the apostles still keeping the feasts in the book of Acts?

Acts 2:1
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
(KJV)

Acts 18:21
But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.
(KJV)

Acts 20:6
And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.
(KJV)


Acts 20:16
For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend the time in Asia: for he hasted, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentecost.
(KJV)

Acts 27:9
Now when much time was spent, and when sailing was now dangerous, because the fast was now already past, Paul admonished them,
(KJV)
This fast in Acts 27:9 is specially speaking of the Day of Atonement.
Strong's number 3521 nesteia (nace-ti'-ah);
from 3522; abstinence (from lack of food, or voluntary and religious); specifically, the fast of the Day of Atonement:

1 Cor 16:8
But I will tarry at Ephesus until Pentecost.
(KJV)

We also know that until the 3rd/4th century, the early Christians celebrated Easter on the 14th of Nisan coinciding with Pesach (Passover).

In conclusion, it is left to each individual believer to thoroughly study the bible and get to know our Creator. It is a blessing that each and every one of us is entiltled to. If you have any extra time church history would be helpful to your studies as well.

(10-12-2010 02:07 PM)sari83 Wrote: [ -> ]http://www.seekgod.ca/hr/hrfaqs3a2.htm#kosher

I would like to begin by noting that God's covenant or law which He gave Israel was not for salvation, but so that the people would prosper and their days would be prolonged.

Would you consider atonement for sin, salvation? When do you think the saints of the OT got "saved"?

Quote:Perhaps, Christ still expects us to follow His laws, but not the ones that are man-made (Mat 15:9). Let's see what He has said regarding this subject matter.

Are you advocating keeping the Mosaic Law?

Why do you think Paul went to Jerusalem for some of the feasts? Did you realize that he did not go up for the feasts for a 14 yr period and at another time did not go for 3 years? Do you think Paul kept all the commandments of the old covenant?

Quote:In regards to the Feasts of the Lord, a big question remains; Why were some of the apostles still keeping the feasts in the book of Acts?

Acts 2:1
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
(KJV)

In this case it was natural that the people were there gathered at the Day of Pentecost since Jesus had told them to tarry in Jerusalem until that feast.There were Scriptures pertaining to that feast still had to be fulfilled.
Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Quote:Acts 18:21
But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.
(KJV)

He does say this feast that cometh and to me this seems to mean this particular feast because he was intent on going to Jeruslaem then.But we do see a few verses up where Paul had spent over a year at Corinth and thus had not been attending Jerusalem for any of the feasts during that time.As sheep mentioned we do see in Scripture where Paul didnt visit Jerusalem for long periods of time so he couldnt have been keeping them by attendance during those times.

Quote:Acts 20:6
And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.
(KJV)

Here it seems they spent the days of Unleavened Bread at Phillipi not Jerusalem.What I see in those verses is that they were still reckoning time by the jewish calendar and personally it makes sense.
They were jews and that is the calendar they were most familiar with and I wouldnt expect the apostles to drop the jewish calendar and adopt the ones of the romans,greeks or whatever.

Quote:Acts 20:16
For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend the time in Asia: for he hasted, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentecost.
(KJV)

Here we see that it follows on from the verses where Paul had spent the previous feast ie Passover and Unleavened at Phillipi so he was not observing the feasts to the letter.Otherwise he would also have made sure to have been in Jeruslaem for that feast which was 50 days before.

Quote:Acts 27:9
Now when much time was spent, and when sailing was now dangerous, because the fast was now already past, Paul admonished them,
(KJV)

This fast in Acts 27:9 is specially speaking of the Day of Atonement.
Strong's number 3521 nesteia (nace-ti'-ah);
from 3522; abstinence (from lack of food, or voluntary and religious); specifically, the fast of the Day of Atonement:

Again here I think the fast ,if it means Yom Kippur, would mean as a way of time reckoning.That is after that time the weather got worse since it would be late september or october and sailing would be dangerous.
I am not sure this means Yom Kippur though and if it did, it does show that again Paul was nowhere near Jerusalem for that feast.Yom Kippur in those times was done differently than what is done today in traditional judaism since back then the Temple was still standing and there was the Mosaic priesthood.

Quote:1 Cor 16:8
But I will tarry at Ephesus until Pentecost.
(KJV)

If he is tarrying at Ephesus until Pentecost he wouldnt be at Jerusalem for the feast.

Yes, in the OT sacrifices and offerings were made for the atonement of sins. Although, I think the OT people were to obtain salvation by belief in God, by obeying His voice, and walking in His commands. Yet it has always been a been a matter of the heart.

Jer 7:21-23
Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh. For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
(KJV)

Isa 1:11-17
To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts? Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them. And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood. Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
(KJV)

Isa 66:1-3
Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest? For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
(KJV)

In the New Testament Christ says His words will be no means pass away. This is one reason why I believe that the original ten commandments are still for applicable for us.

Exod 34:28
And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
(KJV)

Deut 5:22
These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.
(KJV)

Matt 19:17-19
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
(KJV)

Matt 22:36-40
Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
(KJV)

[/quote]

Quote:In the New Testament Christ says His words will be no means pass away. This is one reason why I believe that the original ten commandments are still for applicable for us.

Exod 34:28
And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
(KJV)

Deut 5:22
These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.
(KJV)

Matt 19:17-19
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
(KJV)

Matt 22:36-40
Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
(KJV)

The Exodus and Deuteronomy verses relate to the Old Mosaic covenant.When Christ says His words will not pass he is referring to what He had said to us and that is found in the New Testament.
The verses which Jesus quoted above do not include all the commandments,the Sabbath one is missing for example.
Jesus showed us there that love fulfils the Law.Even so from all that Jesus taught us we see that the Old Covenant and its Law was passing away and He came to bring us the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31.
This new one while having elements of the Old (since certain precepts such as not stealing,committing adultery,envy etc are common and essential to both,) is not exactly the same.

Jer 31:30-33
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(KJV)

In this new covenant, God says He will write His law on their hearts. It is a new covenant
1285 beriyth (ber-eeth'); It is not a new law ( 8451 towrah (to-raw');

It's referring to the law that has always been from the beginning and always will be until the end. He is the author and the finisher of salvation. His will is to be done on earth, and everything according to it's appointed time.

Matt 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
(KJV)

Also, regarding the sabbath day, Hebrews 4 mentions some interesting things.

Heb 4:1-10
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(KJV)

(10-14-2010 10:09 PM)sari83 Wrote: [ -> ]Jer 31:30-33
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(KJV)

In this new covenant, God says He will write His law on their hearts. It is a new covenant
1285 beriyth (ber-eeth'); It is not a new law ( 8451 towrah (to-raw');

It's referring to the law that has always been from the beginning and always will be until the end. He is the author and the finisher of salvation. His will is to be done on earth, and everything according to it's appointed time.

If we look at Jer 31:31, 32 God is speaking of the old covenant, the one He gave to Israel, not to anyone else. It did not exist until that point. The old covenant were the laws written to Israel, which is why God indicated that there would be a new covenant and new laws because Israel broke the old covenant [laws - they did not keep the laws that God gave thereby breaking the covenant].

Exo 24:3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do.
Exo 24:4 And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.
Exo 24:5 And he sent young men of the children of Israel, which offered burnt offerings, and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen unto the LORD.
Exo 24:6 And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basons; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar.
Exo 24:7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.
Exo 24:8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.


I think there is confusion on the what are God's laws, because if you look at Scripture closely, God's laws are not inclusive of just Torah. There are certain "standards" that God put in place when He created the earth. Sin was sin, before God introduced Torah, as we can see throughout the book of Genesis.

Then again, in the New Covenant, there are Laws that "carry over" from Torah and new laws or instructions not found in Torah, because God's Laws are not only Torah - that was a pattern of what was to come. There are also laws in Torah that are no longer kept in the new covenant. The New Covenant brings eternal life and is a brand new system replacing the old system [old covenant] that only brought death. Jesus preached the true law of God that is found throughout the Bible and presented it in new ways so that people would understand how one truly lives for and loves God with all their hearts. This is why the New Covenant Laws are written on our hearts, a law that "transcends" the written law and is free to live for Christ in the newness of the Spirit.

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


The Old Covenant, given to Israel was based on the Levitical system of the animals sacrificed for sin [shed blood]. Although these sacrifices atoned for sin, it was not a permanent "fix" and so they had to be done over and over again. Compare that to the New Covenant in Christ - one Sacrifice for all sin for all time. In other words, the sacrifice of Christ is an ongoing permanent "fix", not a temporary one. Everything about Torah was fixed within Torah. When Jesus bought a New Covenant with His blood, He replaced all that was the old covenant in Torah. You cannot put new wine in old wine skins. Paul describes this in Hebrews:

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Quote:Matt 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
(KJV)

The key words are "fulfilled". Jesus fulfilled all the Law and the Prophets, therefore the earth and heaven still stand because all is fulfilled.

Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Quote:Also, regarding the sabbath day, Hebrews 4 mentions some interesting things.

Heb 4:1-10
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(KJV)

This passage is awesome, because it shows that the Sabbath Day, was replaced by the rest that we have in Jesus Christ 24/7.


Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.


What is the rest of God? It is in Jesus Christ


Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


The rest of the passage shows that Israel, even though they kept the Sabbath Day DID NOT enter God's rest. Why? Because of unbelief. Belief in Christ is the rest that God was speaking of. The Sabbath Day given to Israel was a pattern of what was to come IN CHRIST

Quote:It's referring to the law that has always been from the beginning and always will be until the end. He is the author and the finisher of salvation. His will is to be done on earth, and everything according to it's appointed time.

I don't understand what you mean by the law that was from the beginning since instructions from God varied throughout various times in history.Which law are you referring to exactly as maybe I am not understanding you correctly.

Quote:Matt 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
(KJV)

The law spoken of here appears to be the Law given to Moses at Sinai.And although Jesus says His words will never pass away, this verse does indicate that the Law will pass away,once all is fulfilled.As Sheep touched upon in her post, we see that once it was fulfilled the Law did pass away and become obsolete as the book of Hebrews explains.The Mosaic covenant was replaced by a better one.Jesus being the mediator of that Covenant taught us the laws pertaining to that Covenant via His words that will never pass away since it is an eternal one.
Scripture does speak of a law to come and the prophecy is given during the time of Isaiah ,which is a long long time after Moses.

Isa 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
Isa 42:2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
Isa 42:3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
Isa 42:4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

The Servant which we know to be Jesus, brings His law.

I'm sorry I don't want to be argumentative, but the fact is, God did not say there would be new laws.

What is the new covenant? It it God placing HIS (already established from the beginning of creation) laws into our hearts.

In Psalm 40, we see Christ as the embodiment of this new covenant, and the law within His heart.

Ps 40:7-8
Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
(KJV)

Heb 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
(KJV)

Heb 10:16
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
(KJV)

One of the main things I think people sometimes miss from Jesus' teachings is much of His conflict with the religious leadership was not not only their hypocrisy, but also their man-made laws that in effect caused His people to transgress His commandments.

Notice in the following verse how Christ distinguishes the commandments that are only commandments of men. (not given by Him)

Matt 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
(KJV)
Something similar is found in Colossians:
Col 2:20-22
Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
(KJV)

Christ said that the time had come and now is when we will worship Him in spirit and in truth. How is it possible to worship Him in spirit when we are in these fleshly bodies?

Rom 8:3-4
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(KJV)



Ps 119:97
O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.
(KJV)

(10-15-2010 10:22 AM)sheep wrecked Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-14-2010 10:09 PM)sari83 Wrote: [ -> ]Jer 31:30-33
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(KJV)

In this new covenant, God says He will write His law on their hearts. It is a new covenant
1285 beriyth (ber-eeth'); It is not a new law ( 8451 towrah (to-raw');

It's referring to the law that has always been from the beginning and always will be until the end. He is the author and the finisher of salvation. His will is to be done on earth, and everything according to it's appointed time.

If we look at Jer 31:31, 32 God is speaking of the old covenant, the one He gave to Israel, not to anyone else. It did not exist until that point. The old covenant were the laws written to Israel, which is why God indicated that there would be a new covenant and new laws because Israel broke the old covenant [laws - they did not keep the laws that God gave thereby breaking the covenant].

Exo 24:3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do.
Exo 24:4 And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.
Exo 24:5 And he sent young men of the children of Israel, which offered burnt offerings, and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen unto the LORD.
Exo 24:6 And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basons; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar.
Exo 24:7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.
Exo 24:8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.


I think there is confusion on the what are God's laws, because if you look at Scripture closely, God's laws are not inclusive of just Torah. There are certain "standards" that God put in place when He created the earth. Sin was sin, before God introduced Torah, as we can see throughout the book of Genesis.

Then again, in the New Covenant, there are Laws that "carry over" from Torah and new laws or instructions not found in Torah, because God's Laws are not only Torah - that was a pattern of what was to come. There are also laws in Torah that are no longer kept in the new covenant. The New Covenant brings eternal life and is a brand new system replacing the old system [old covenant] that only brought death. Jesus preached the true law of God that is found throughout the Bible and presented it in new ways so that people would understand how one truly lives for and loves God with all their hearts. This is why the New Covenant Laws are written on our hearts, a law that "transcends" the written law and is free to live for Christ in the newness of the Spirit.

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


The Old Covenant, given to Israel was based on the Levitical system of the animals sacrificed for sin [shed blood]. Although these sacrifices atoned for sin, it was not a permanent "fix" and so they had to be done over and over again. Compare that to the New Covenant in Christ - one Sacrifice for all sin for all time. In other words, the sacrifice of Christ is an ongoing permanent "fix", not a temporary one. Everything about Torah was fixed within Torah. When Jesus bought a New Covenant with His blood, He replaced all that was the old covenant in Torah. You cannot put new wine in old wine skins. Paul describes this in Hebrews:

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Quote:Matt 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
(KJV)

The key words are "fulfilled". Jesus fulfilled all the Law and the Prophets, therefore the earth and heaven still stand because all is fulfilled.

Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Quote:Also, regarding the sabbath day, Hebrews 4 mentions some interesting things.

Heb 4:1-10
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
(KJV)

This passage is awesome, because it shows that the Sabbath Day, was replaced by the rest that we have in Jesus Christ 24/7.


Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.


What is the rest of God? It is in Jesus Christ


Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


The rest of the passage shows that Israel, even though they kept the Sabbath Day DID NOT enter God's rest. Why? Because of unbelief. Belief in Christ is the rest that God was speaking of. The Sabbath Day given to Israel was a pattern of what was to come IN CHRIST

Quote:I'm sorry I don't want to be argumentative, but the fact is, God did not say there would be new laws.

So what do we do with the following verses?

Isa 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
Isa 42:2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
Isa 42:3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
Isa 42:4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

We also have the following verses

Isa 51:4 Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.
Isa 51:5 My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.