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I thought it would be interesting to do a study on Acts 15. It seems that Hebrew Roots has made plenty of room to put an different slant on it - which is why it's in this section

It's debate time .......... give it your best shot


For ease of copy and pasting for reference - I have it posted here:

KJAV [King James American Version]

Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brothers, and said, Except you be circumcised after the manner of Moses, you cannot be saved.
Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders about this question.
Act 15:3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy to all the brothers.
Act 15:4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said to them, Men and brothers, you know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knows the hearts, bore them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did to us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt you God, to put a yoke on the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Act 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had worked among the Gentiles by them.
Act 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brothers, listen to me:
Act 15:14 Simeon has declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Act 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
Act 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, on whom my name is called, said the Lord, who does all these things.
Act 15:18 Known to God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Act 15:19 Why my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:20 But that we write to them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Act 15:21 For Moses of old time has in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Act 15:22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brothers:
Act 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brothers send greeting to the brothers which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.
Act 15:24 For as much as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Act 15:25 It seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
Act 15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Act 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay on you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Act 15:29 That you abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if you keep yourselves, you shall do well. Fare you well.
Act 15:30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the letter:
Act 15:31 Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.
Act 15:32 And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brothers with many words, and confirmed them.
Act 15:33 And after they had tarried there a space, they were let go in peace from the brothers to the apostles.
Act 15:34 Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still.
Act 15:35 Paul also and Barnabas continued in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord, with many others also.
Act 15:36 And some days after Paul said to Barnabas, Let us go again and visit our brothers in every city where we have preached the word of the LORD, and see how they do.
Act 15:37 And Barnabas determined to take with them John, whose surname was Mark.
Act 15:38 But Paul thought not good to take him with them, who departed from them from Pamphylia, and went not with them to the work.
Act 15:39 And the contention was so sharp between them, that they departed asunder one from the other: and so Barnabas took Mark, and sailed to Cyprus;
Act 15:40 And Paul chose Silas, and departed, being recommended by the brothers to the grace of God.
Act 15:41 And he went through Syria and Cilicia, confirming the churches.

So the HR believe that converts to christ should be circumsized?

OK let them do it authentically, like Abraham did.

FLINT KNIFE, NO ANAESTHETIC, NO ANTIBIOTICS!!

Or is the HR slant something else

Are u serious? If so, then what about child birth? and other medical needs? I doubt in Abrahams day they knew how to take out a tonsil...how about dental? No anticeptic or anethesia? I am not sure you have fully thought this through.:what:

Act 15:24 For as much as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Based on Acts 15:24 How did circumcission become the topic?

Sheep Wrecked; what area of Acts 15 did you want to discuss?

(01-05-2009 09:56 AM)HumbleThySelf Wrote: [ -> ]Act 15:24 For as much as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Based on Acts 15:24 How did circumcission become the topic?

Sheep Wrecked; what area of Acts 15 did you want to discuss?

The discussion is open!

I picked Acts 15 because Messianic Judaism's Hebrew Roots crowd points to this passage as confirmation that one must keep the Mosaic Law. Because we have a lot of discussion going on Hebrew Root's doctrines and traditions, I thought it would be interesting to see how one defends this passage to support that position.

Circumcision would definitely fall into that category as some choose to get re-circumcised by a Jewish Mohel to prove their observance of the Mosaic Law [Torah].

I think this is what Stref was referring to, but with a bit irony

Act 15:21 For Moses of old time has in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.


I have a Q about this verse

First the apostles say:
Act 15:19 Why my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:20 But that we write to them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
So only 4 rules or instructions.

But in verse 21 they refer to moses being preached.
Does nt this mean that when they go listen to moses being preaches, they will hear the rest of what is expected of them?

Aren .t the 4 rules given "to begin with"and the rest of the story they will hear later?

EMJE

Emje
messianics always like to quote the first part of the discussion in the chapter but they don’t quote what went into the letter which was

Act 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greetings unto the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
Act 15:24 Since we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Act 15:25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
Act 15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Act 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Act 15:29 That you abstain from anything offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if you keep yourselves, you shall do well. Farewell.

If you see there the written letter that is distributed with witnesses, includes nothing about Moses. In the first account it forms part of the discussion of the Jerusalem council but in the actual letter, no reference is made to Moses. And the verse .

For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Implies that that is all they had to do, there is no mention that this is just the beginning of learning more in synagogues or anything similar.In fact ,didnt Jesus warn that they'd be put out of the synagogues?

Besides the letter if you note,was distributed to gentiles,not jews.The jews already knew to shy away from paganism and immorality because they hear Moses in the synagogues but gentiles coming to christ had no such knowledge.So thats what I think it means when it says

Act 15:21 For Moses of old time has in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.


since if you look two verses before it says

Act 15:19 Therefore my judgment is, that we trouble not them, who from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

Seven years later in Acts 21, we see the advice remains the same

Act 21:25 And concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, except only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication.

(01-05-2009 07:11 AM)emmythesweet Wrote: [ -> ]Are u serious? If so, then what about child birth? and other medical needs? I doubt in Abrahams day they knew how to take out a tonsil...how about dental? No anticeptic or anethesia? I am not sure you have fully thought this through.:what:

I was being ironic.

what did Paul say, "if you get circumcised you have fallen from grace" or words to that effect