02-28-2011, 12:36 PM
Hi GaBee, It would be great if you would take the time to introduce yourself to other members in this section
> http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=17
Here's what I think GaBee.
Paul did not start a new religion as you suggest. Jesus chose the 12 apostle, -minus Judas who betrayed Him, and in Acts we see through the apostles prayer, Matthias was chosen to replace him. These were called to be witnesses of all Jesus did and taught them, to declare the gospel. Paul became a chosen apostle by Christ, 'out of due time." He also was taught directly by Jesus. His mission was also first to the Jews but then, to the Gentiles.
Jesus said He chose them. He also said all that He taught them, the Holy Spirit would bring to mind, so they would testify, teach and exhort with all that He had proclaimed to them. They were laying the foundation of the church, and none other foundation could be laid than was Christ.
If you discount Paul, and what he was called to teach, then you must also discount the apostles record, and testimonies, and also the Words of Christ. Which means rejection of Jesus Christ also. Because while you say we must listen to what He said, you are missing what He did say.
Notice when they changed from being referenced as disciples to apostles.
Luk 6:13 And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles; Luk 6:14 Simon, (whom he also named Peter,) and Andrew his brother, James and John, Philip and Bartholomew,
Luk 6:15 Matthew and Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon called Zelotes,
Luk 6:16 And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor.
Matthew 10:1-4 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
2. Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of
Zebedee, and John his brother; 3. Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus,
whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4. Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. 5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, ...
Acts 1:1-8 The former ***treatise have I made**, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, 2. Until the day in which he was taken up, after that **he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:** 3. To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: 4. And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. ... 8. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. ...
Matthias was chosen "of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22. Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection." and "That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship".
Acts 1:20-26 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take. 21. Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22. Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us,** must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.** 23. And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. 24. And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, 25. **That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, **from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. 26. And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
The very requirements of being an apostle, based on the Scriptures were --Jesus initially physically chose them out of all the disciples to be a witness of Himself and all He did while He walked the earth as a man. They had to have seen it all unfold from the baptism with John to His resurrection. They were specifically called and specifically given power of the Holy Ghost, to do signs and wonders to proclaim the Gospel.
Luke 1:1-4 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, 2. Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; 3. It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, ***to write unto thee in order**, most excellent Theophilus, 4. ***That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.***
Joh 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 But **these are written,*** that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Luke 24:44-49 And he said unto them, ***These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. ****45. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46. And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47. ***And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48. And ye are witnesses of these things.*** 49. And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
Act 10:39 **And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; ***whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; :41***Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. 42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. ***
Act 13:30 But God raised him from the dead: 31 And ***he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem,
who are his witnesses unto the people.** 32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, **how that the promise which was made unto the
fathers**,
Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
God confirmed their witness with signs and wonders, including Paul.
Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Acts 5:12 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one
accord in Solomon's porch.
Act 5:15 Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.
Act 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Act 19:11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul: 12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.
Hebrews 2:3-4 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4. God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
And Paul wrote:
2 Corinthians 12:11-12 I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you:
for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing. 12. Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.
Jesus prayed for the apostles in John 17 (as well as all believers) but He said:
Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: **those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
...Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; **
Paul was the exception to the twelve in a sense, because he did not walk with Christ during His ministry on earth. Yet he also was very directly called by Christ as a witness of Christ's time on earth and to proclaim the Gospel:
1 Corinthians 9:1-2 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?
2. If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.
Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. ...
17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. 18 ***Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. 19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother***
1Co 1:1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
Galatians 2:6-8 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me: 7. ****But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8. (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles****
Paul references the apostle James the Lord's brother, Peter and John: Galatians written about 50 AD
Gal 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
Gal 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
1 Cor written mid 50s AD
1Co 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
Acts, which presents the record of the apostles activities, including Paul, was written about 60 AD.
Paul would not have been received as a fellow believer or as an apostle by the other apostles or believers if he taught contrary to what they had received from Christ. The apostles were teaching all that Christ had taught them, showing He had fulfilled the prophecies concerning salvation and the promised Messiah. Jesus said His church would be built upon the rock of the knowledge of Christ, the Son of the Living God. And the apostles were given the role of testifying of Him, proclaiming and laying that foundation. And isn't it true that all things needed to be confirmed from at least 2 to three witnesses, and the apostles were 12, and they themselves confirmed Paul, aside from all the other believers, and the confirmation of the signs of an apostle?
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 3:4 Whereby, **when ye read,** ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
2Pe 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 19 ***We have also a more sure word of prophecy;** whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
1 Thessalonians 2:3-6 For our exhortation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile: 4. But ** as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts. 5. For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; God is witness: 6. Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ.**
Paul made the same declaration of the Gospel that the other apostles did >
1 Corinthians 15:3-9 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, **how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5. And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: 6. After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 7. After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 8. And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. 9. For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.***
The apostles were different and unique in the Body of Christ:
1Co 4:9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.
Jud 1:17 But, beloved, ****remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; ***
Act 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, **except the apostles**
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly **in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship,** and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Act 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
2 Peter 3:1-2 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 2. ***That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:***
Just as the record of the OT stands as proof of who God is, and the record of the law and the prophets, and the very beginning of creation, and so on, to about 400 years before Christ, so too, the NT was the record of all the prophets waited for, the salvation of God, the awaited Messiah, who fulfilled prophecy after prophecy, and the 'new thing' promised by God in Jeremiah. The apostles were those mentioned by Christ Himself and chosen by Him as His witnesses while on this earth, needed in order to proclaim the Gospel and be able to say--We were His witnesses and saw all these things firsthand.
As Rose said, if the prophets forteold of that day, it stands to reason there would be record of the fulfillment of those prophecies.
1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, ***but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven;*** which things the angels desire to look into.
Jesus was not just a commentator or interpreter of the OT, nor were the apostles, including Paul. Whenever He said, it has been said, and quotes something from the OT, and then says, but I say unto you, that's a new teaching/commandment. Just as when He stated, 'a new commandment I give to you.'
And from the OT we see:
Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Deu 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
Jesus spoke in parables and said this about them:
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. 17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
Jesus said to hear Him, and He chose the apostles, including Paul to be witnesses of Him and convey all He taught. The gospels and epistles were written so the record would stand the test of time and all would have opportunity to know Christ. Just as the OT has stood the test of time. The apostles were in agreement and when writing, they used the word "we" "our" in reference to themselves and the other apostles.
1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, **which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled,** of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
3 ***That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you,*** that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
4 ***And these things **write** we unto you,** that your joy may be full. 5 ****This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you,*** that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
From the Gospel of John which you agree all should read:
Joh 1:40 One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 41 He first findeth
his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.
Joh 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
Joh 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, ** which are not written in this book: **31 ***But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God;*** and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Joh 21:24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, ***and wrote these things: ***and we know that his testimony is true. 25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
Luke 1:1 Forasmuch as **many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,** 2 ***Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; ***3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first,*** to write unto thee in order, ***most excellent Theophilus, 4 ***That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.***
Act 1:1 The former **treatise** have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, 2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
The apostles viewed Paul as an apostle, called and chosen by Christ, just as they were. He didn't just show up and take over and change what they were commissioned to proclaim. If he had been a false apostle, they would have proclaimed it and warned people away from him, because they were indeed those who physically walked with Christ and knew the doctrine they were to proclaim and all they were to testify concerning Him.
Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 ***Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; *****6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
> http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=17
Here's what I think GaBee.
Paul did not start a new religion as you suggest. Jesus chose the 12 apostle, -minus Judas who betrayed Him, and in Acts we see through the apostles prayer, Matthias was chosen to replace him. These were called to be witnesses of all Jesus did and taught them, to declare the gospel. Paul became a chosen apostle by Christ, 'out of due time." He also was taught directly by Jesus. His mission was also first to the Jews but then, to the Gentiles.
Jesus said He chose them. He also said all that He taught them, the Holy Spirit would bring to mind, so they would testify, teach and exhort with all that He had proclaimed to them. They were laying the foundation of the church, and none other foundation could be laid than was Christ.
If you discount Paul, and what he was called to teach, then you must also discount the apostles record, and testimonies, and also the Words of Christ. Which means rejection of Jesus Christ also. Because while you say we must listen to what He said, you are missing what He did say.
Notice when they changed from being referenced as disciples to apostles.
Luk 6:13 And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles; Luk 6:14 Simon, (whom he also named Peter,) and Andrew his brother, James and John, Philip and Bartholomew,
Luk 6:15 Matthew and Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon called Zelotes,
Luk 6:16 And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor.
Matthew 10:1-4 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
2. Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of
Zebedee, and John his brother; 3. Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus,
whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4. Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him. 5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, ...
Acts 1:1-8 The former ***treatise have I made**, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, 2. Until the day in which he was taken up, after that **he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:** 3. To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: 4. And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. ... 8. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. ...
Matthias was chosen "of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22. Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection." and "That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship".
Acts 1:20-26 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take. 21. Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22. Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us,** must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.** 23. And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. 24. And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, 25. **That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, **from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. 26. And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
The very requirements of being an apostle, based on the Scriptures were --Jesus initially physically chose them out of all the disciples to be a witness of Himself and all He did while He walked the earth as a man. They had to have seen it all unfold from the baptism with John to His resurrection. They were specifically called and specifically given power of the Holy Ghost, to do signs and wonders to proclaim the Gospel.
Luke 1:1-4 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, 2. Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; 3. It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, ***to write unto thee in order**, most excellent Theophilus, 4. ***That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.***
Joh 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 But **these are written,*** that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Luke 24:44-49 And he said unto them, ***These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. ****45. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46. And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47. ***And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48. And ye are witnesses of these things.*** 49. And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
Act 10:39 **And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; ***whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; :41***Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. 42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. ***
Act 13:30 But God raised him from the dead: 31 And ***he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem,
who are his witnesses unto the people.** 32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, **how that the promise which was made unto the
fathers**,
Rev 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
God confirmed their witness with signs and wonders, including Paul.
Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Acts 5:12 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one
accord in Solomon's porch.
Act 5:15 Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.
Act 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Act 19:11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul: 12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.
Hebrews 2:3-4 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4. God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
And Paul wrote:
2 Corinthians 12:11-12 I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you:
for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing. 12. Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.
Jesus prayed for the apostles in John 17 (as well as all believers) but He said:
Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: **those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
...Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; **
Paul was the exception to the twelve in a sense, because he did not walk with Christ during His ministry on earth. Yet he also was very directly called by Christ as a witness of Christ's time on earth and to proclaim the Gospel:
1 Corinthians 9:1-2 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?
2. If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.
Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. ...
17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. 18 ***Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. 19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother***
1Co 1:1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
Galatians 2:6-8 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me: 7. ****But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8. (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles****
Paul references the apostle James the Lord's brother, Peter and John: Galatians written about 50 AD
Gal 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
Gal 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
1 Cor written mid 50s AD
1Co 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
Acts, which presents the record of the apostles activities, including Paul, was written about 60 AD.
Paul would not have been received as a fellow believer or as an apostle by the other apostles or believers if he taught contrary to what they had received from Christ. The apostles were teaching all that Christ had taught them, showing He had fulfilled the prophecies concerning salvation and the promised Messiah. Jesus said His church would be built upon the rock of the knowledge of Christ, the Son of the Living God. And the apostles were given the role of testifying of Him, proclaiming and laying that foundation. And isn't it true that all things needed to be confirmed from at least 2 to three witnesses, and the apostles were 12, and they themselves confirmed Paul, aside from all the other believers, and the confirmation of the signs of an apostle?
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 3:4 Whereby, **when ye read,** ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
2Pe 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 19 ***We have also a more sure word of prophecy;** whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
1 Thessalonians 2:3-6 For our exhortation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile: 4. But ** as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts. 5. For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; God is witness: 6. Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ.**
Paul made the same declaration of the Gospel that the other apostles did >
1 Corinthians 15:3-9 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, **how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 5. And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: 6. After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. 7. After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. 8. And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. 9. For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.***
The apostles were different and unique in the Body of Christ:
1Co 4:9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.
Jud 1:17 But, beloved, ****remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; ***
Act 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, **except the apostles**
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly **in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship,** and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Act 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
2 Peter 3:1-2 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 2. ***That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:***
Just as the record of the OT stands as proof of who God is, and the record of the law and the prophets, and the very beginning of creation, and so on, to about 400 years before Christ, so too, the NT was the record of all the prophets waited for, the salvation of God, the awaited Messiah, who fulfilled prophecy after prophecy, and the 'new thing' promised by God in Jeremiah. The apostles were those mentioned by Christ Himself and chosen by Him as His witnesses while on this earth, needed in order to proclaim the Gospel and be able to say--We were His witnesses and saw all these things firsthand.
As Rose said, if the prophets forteold of that day, it stands to reason there would be record of the fulfillment of those prophecies.
1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, ***but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven;*** which things the angels desire to look into.
Jesus was not just a commentator or interpreter of the OT, nor were the apostles, including Paul. Whenever He said, it has been said, and quotes something from the OT, and then says, but I say unto you, that's a new teaching/commandment. Just as when He stated, 'a new commandment I give to you.'
And from the OT we see:
Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Deu 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
Jesus spoke in parables and said this about them:
Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. 17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
Jesus said to hear Him, and He chose the apostles, including Paul to be witnesses of Him and convey all He taught. The gospels and epistles were written so the record would stand the test of time and all would have opportunity to know Christ. Just as the OT has stood the test of time. The apostles were in agreement and when writing, they used the word "we" "our" in reference to themselves and the other apostles.
1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, **which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled,** of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
3 ***That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you,*** that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
4 ***And these things **write** we unto you,** that your joy may be full. 5 ****This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you,*** that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
From the Gospel of John which you agree all should read:
Joh 1:40 One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 41 He first findeth
his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.
Joh 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
Joh 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, ** which are not written in this book: **31 ***But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God;*** and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Joh 21:24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, ***and wrote these things: ***and we know that his testimony is true. 25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
Luke 1:1 Forasmuch as **many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,** 2 ***Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; ***3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first,*** to write unto thee in order, ***most excellent Theophilus, 4 ***That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.***
Act 1:1 The former **treatise** have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, 2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
The apostles viewed Paul as an apostle, called and chosen by Christ, just as they were. He didn't just show up and take over and change what they were commissioned to proclaim. If he had been a false apostle, they would have proclaimed it and warned people away from him, because they were indeed those who physically walked with Christ and knew the doctrine they were to proclaim and all they were to testify concerning Him.
Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 ***Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; *****6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
