SeekGod.ca Discussion Forum

WHEN DOES THE/A DAY BEGIN

The daylight part of a 24 hour period is called “DAY” (Hebrew: YOM).
EVENING (EREV) =Mixing of the Light and darkness after sunset
MORNING (BOKER) =break of day, which is the sun breaking the horizon.

In judaism the day begins at sunset.
They got this from genesis.
But are they correct?

Is n t it more logical that the day begins when the suns gets "up"?
In the beginning there is nothingness, or darkness, then Elohim creates light and calls it “day”. That is the start. Scripture states that evening came, then morning (start of the next day), that was the first day.

Two examples:

Genesis 1:16
16 And Elohim made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night, and the stars.
Note: Why would Yahweh start a day with the "lesser light"?

Exodus 10:13
13 And Mosheh stretched out his rod over the land of Mitsrayim, and YHWH brought an east wind on the land all that day and all that night. Morning came, and the east wind brought the locusts.
Note: “that day” belongs to “that night”, then the “Morning came”


You get the idea
What do you all think?

EMJE

(01-09-2009 11:50 AM)Emjesown Wrote: [ -> ]WHEN DOES THE/A DAY BEGIN

The daylight part of a 24 hour period is called “DAY” (Hebrew: YOM).
EVENING (EREV) =Mixing of the Light and darkness after sunset
MORNING (BOKER) =break of day, which is the sun breaking the horizon.

In judaism the day begins at sunset.
They got this from genesis.
But are they correct?

Is n t it more logical that the day begins when the suns gets "up"?
In the beginning there is nothingness, or darkness, then Elohim creates light and calls it “day”. That is the start. Scripture states that evening came, then morning (start of the next day), that was the first day.

Two examples:

Genesis 1:16
16 And Elohim made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night, and the stars.
Note: Why would Yahweh start a day with the "lesser light"?

Exodus 10:13
13 And Mosheh stretched out his rod over the land of Mitsrayim, and YHWH brought an east wind on the land all that day and all that night. Morning came, and the east wind brought the locusts.
Note: “that day” belongs to “that night”, then the “Morning came”


You get the idea
What do you all think?

EMJE

I am not sure. I know Judaism has used sunset to mark the new day, not sure where it comes from though. I know there are watches of the night in the Bible, but not sure if we are told exactly what times those are.

Here is what Genesis says:

Gen 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

Gen 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Gen 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Interesting a pattern ........

Other than that, a lot of what I read is conjecture

Hello Emje,
I have an inkling day means day and night means night, day is when it is light, night is when it is dark...however it can sometimes be dark during the day... and depending on where you live it can be dark for months of the year.
Gen 1:5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

Gen 44:3 As soon as the morning was light, the men were sent away with their donkeys.

Exo 16:13 In the evening quail came up and covered the camp, and in the morning dew lay around the camp.

Exo 16:21 Morning by morning they gathered it, each as much as he could eat; but when the sun grew hot, it melted.

2Pe 1:19 And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts,


I think the last verse I posted particularly interesting.
hugs from Emily

Except for pure academic scholarly curiosity I can see no real interest in the question. To me it would only matter if I felt obliged to keep feasts and so would need deeply to know when they started lest God get angry with me and punish me.

our system, the day starts at midnite and the years starts in midwinter, is ancient Roman reckoning, and I think it is eminently rational.

In Europe the start of the year was the 25 March right through the middle ages and renaissance, so everybody thought it very considerate of Queen Elizabeth I to die the very day before, the last day of the old year.

to me the start of the day is purely subjective, after all, what is the starting point of a circle?

that Genesis used "evening morning" could very well to comunicate in terms of the Hebrew usage, but not to give it ultimate sanction. I think we can think of evening as the start of the new day in terms of the old day ending at sunset

(01-17-2009 12:18 AM)strefanash Wrote: [ -> ]that Genesis used "evening morning" could very well to comunicate in terms of the Hebrew usage, but not to give it ultimate sanction. I think we can think of evening as the start of the new day in terms of the old day ending at sunset

It's interesting that the day begins at midnight, when it's still night - and I am thinking the date change at midnight

Hello Emje,

The first day began at the first dawn. Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light : and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good : And God separated the light from the darkness. "Morning has broken like the first dawning" the first day.
How by the first dawn of day on day one.
and the darkness was not "good". The goodnes of day divided from the darkness.
Where did the darkness, Tohu and bohu come from? From satan when he was cast back to earth and changed from Lucifer the light bringer to satan the adversary and darkness.
And the one who became Christ, the New Light Bringer, The Light of the New World, the new Covenant brought the dawn of the first day.
And we have the daily witness every day of light overcoming darkness.
conformed in the rainbow covenant of Gen 8:22 ... day and night shall not cease.
If you believe Jesus the Christ then there are 12 hours in a biblical day, Jn 9-10
Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world. 10But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.
The day starts at dawn and ends at the end of evening, dusk and the night starts at dusk and ends at dawn the start of the new day.
H1242 בקר bôqer bo'-ker
From H1239 ; properly dawn (as the break of day); generally morning:— (+) day, early, morning, morrow.

The Jews do not get start of day at sunset from the bible, but babylon and from the second oral torah, now written down as the two Talmuds, Mishna, Midrash etc.

Evening is the end of day Ereb, or erev prime meaning is dusk - end of day. eventide in 1611 English.
After Sinai The evening sacrifice was killed in the evening (or some like Darby's as between the evenings 3PM - 6PM) after 3 PM our time and sacrificed about i hour before sunset 5 PM

In Isaiah 1:10-17 We see how much the Lord hates the jews new moon, feast days, sabbaths v13 -15 13Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting. 14Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them. 15And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

If you follow the jewish hillel calendar then you are following the tradition of the elders that Christ condemned in Mat 15:7-9 quoted from Isaiah 1 and 29

7Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Romans 3:10-12
v.w the other vic
10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

(01-12-2009 07:34 PM)emmythesweet Wrote: [ -> ]Hello Emje,
I have an inkling day means day and night means night, day is when it is light, night is when it is dark...however it can sometimes be dark during the day... and depending on where you live it can be dark for months of the year.
Gen 1:5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

Gen 44:3 As soon as the morning was light, the men were sent away with their donkeys.

Exo 16:13 In the evening quail came up and covered the camp, and in the morning dew lay around the camp.

Exo 16:21 Morning by morning they gathered it, each as much as he could eat; but when the sun grew hot, it melted.

2Pe 1:19 And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts,


I think the last verse I posted particularly interesting.
hugs from Emily

vicwilliams

Quote: Where did the darkness, Tohu and bohu come from? From satan when he was cast back to earth and changed from Lucifer the light bringer to satan the adversary and darkness.
And the one who became Christ, the New Light Bringer, The Light of the New World, the new Covenant brought the dawn of the first day.

How odd. My Bible and I am sure most others do not include that information concerning day and night, satan and Christ. Could you please provide that verse in Genesis to prove your statments?

In fact, I would insist you provide the scripture in Genesis that gives those statements. I am not talking about Isaiah 14:12 nor 2 Peter 1:19, nor Revelation 22:16. I am talking about creation and day and night being created.

Give the source scriptures that were inspired by God, that say what you are suggesting. Or be quiet.

Are you in fact meaning by "the one who became Christ," the New Light Bringer---sort of an alternate to satan--brother perhaps??? Or would that be the occult name for lucifer? mysticism?

Consider this a public warning. If you continue in the vein you are going, you will find your stay on this forum shortlived. Consider the issue of the nic the beginning of a downward spiral and you are almost to the end.

You deny the divinity of Christ. That is clear. You do not have a platform here to propagate your blasphemy or heresy. Do not pursue this further.

Hello Vic.

No I do not deny the divinity of Christ. But I do not know what you understand or mean by His "divinity".
My understanding of the Great white throne of God with the 24 elders and other Spirit beings includes Christ being with the Father. Together with the arch angels and many other beings of which we know very little. Lucifer and the angels rebelled and became satan and his demons.
The early part of Job fills in some more details.
Christ voluntarily agreed to become our Messiah and Saviour.
God took back the spiritual power and glory he had with the Father from creation and before . That was why Christ in his lasts prayer asked to be glorified with the power He had with Father before His human birth, before He was begotten as a man. Only as a man could Christ be tempered and tempted in all points, in all things as a man. The only begotten Son of God. Full of grace and truth. He like us tasted of death and was resurrected by God the Father. Christ could only go though all phases of life as we do, only as a man.
So was Christ with God at the creation. He was part of the "us" with God the Father, the elohym. But he became like us, as we are from the first Adam, Christ the new Adam. The first to be resurrected from the dead. The first of many brothers and sisters in Christ who will be resurrected at Christ's return. Will we be resurrected like Christ was at the last trump. The trumpet will sound and we will be resurrected to be with Christ as His Bride, to be with the Father as sons and daughters,
married to His glorified Son.
We can do all things through Christ who strengthen us with God the Father power and God's Spirit.
In Jn 1:2 it explains :- the same (ie, the Word, Christ) was in the begining with God. Christ was one of the elohym at the creation.

Quote : -Where did the darkness, Tohu and bohu come from? From satan when he was cast back to earth and changed from Lucifer the light bringer to satan the adversary and darkness.
And the one who became Christ, the New Light Bringer, The Light of the New World, the new Covenant brought the dawn of the first day.

Gen 1:3 Clearly identifies Light. v4 1st part light was good. 2nd part light divided separated completely from darkness. and darkness was not good.
V5 the day is named and created the 1st day. The night is named and created after the end of the first day - The first night. Together they are the first day and first night.

Gen 8:22 confirms the daily day beginning and end and night beginning and end always following.
the twelve hour day that Christ commanded in Jn 11: 9 christ defines the day, the biblical day.
12 hours. Are you going to argue against Christ.
Are theer not twelve hours in the day?

Now the second sentence of v5 is where the jews and some other people say that evening is not evening but all night and morning is not morning but all day.
The first day was followed by the first night.

So if by divine you mean of Spirit Yes He was, Did he become flesh and dell among" Yes. and we beheld His glory , as of the only begotten Son. Did God resurrect Christ to be Spirit and sit at His right hand Now. Yes, Just as we will be Spirit bodied beings with Christ at the Marriage of the Lamb in Rev 19:9. Yes Christ was, and now is, and is to come.

Rom 3:10-12.
V.W the other Vic.
10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

vicwilliams

Jesus Christ was God manifest in the flesh. He was fully man and fully God. He was resurrected bodily---that is why His body was not in the tomb. Or do you believe that His body was just stolen or went missing? Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father, making inrercession for us until all things are under His feet, including death.

In the salvation thread you stated He was a man. So please don't sidestep that.

Quote:We can do all things through Christ who strengthen us with God the Father power and God's Spirit

The Scriptures say:

Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Quote: Gen 1:3 Clearly identifies Light. v4 1st part light was good. 2nd part light divided separated completely from darkness. and darkness was not good.

It does not say anywhere that the night God created was not good. Let's look at what the scriptures actually say, concerning light and dark, day and night of creation:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. ...

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21 And God created great whales, ... and God saw that it was good.
...
Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
...
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. ...
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

If you will notice it does not say that the darkness or night of creation was not good. In fact, we see that God viewed all of His creation of the earth and the heavenlies, sun, and moon, stars, night and day as Very Good.

vicwilliams

Quote:: -Where did the darkness, Tohu and bohu come from? From satan when he was cast back to earth and changed from Lucifer the light bringer to satan the adversary and darkness.
And the one who became Christ, the New Light Bringer, The Light of the New World, the new Covenant brought the dawn of the first day.

You need to study with understanding and stop adding to the Scriptures. Neither tohu or bohu need be capitalized. And you have your definitions and understandings messed up.

without form, H8414 and void; H922 and darkness H2822

without form > tohu >H8414
tôhû
BDB Definition:
1) formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness
1a) formlessness (of primeval earth)
1a1) nothingness, empty space
1b) that which is empty or unreal (of idols) (figuratively)
1c) wasteland, wilderness (of solitary places)
1d) place of chaos
1e) vanity
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from an unused root meaning to lie waste

and void; > bohu>H922
bôhû
BDB Definition:
1) emptiness, void, waste
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from an unused root (meaning to be empty)

darkness> H2822 > chôshek kho-shek'

H2822
חשׁך
chôshek
BDB Definition:
1) darkness, obscurity
1a) darkness
1b) secret place
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H2821

the light H216 Day, H3117 and the darkness H2822 called Night.H3915

the lightH216 'ôr ore [strong's-From H215; illumination or (concretely) luminary (in every sense, including lightning, happiness, etc.): - bright, clear, + day, light (-ning), morning, sun.]

H216
אור
'ôr
BDB Definition:
1) light
1a) light of day
1b) light of heavenly luminaries (moon, sun, stars)
1c) day-break, dawn, morning light
1d) daylight
1e) lightning
1f) light of lamp
1g) light of life
1h) light of prosperity
1i) light of instruction
1j) light of face (figuratively)
1k) Jehovah as Israel’s light
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H215

Day,H3117
H3117
יום
yôm
BDB Definition:
1) day, time, year
1a) day (as opposed to night)
1b) day (24 hour period)
1b1) as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
1b2) as a division of time
1b2a) a working day, a day’s journey
1c) days, lifetime (plural)
1d) time, period (general)
1e) year
1f) temporal references
1f1) today
1f2) yesterday
1f3) tomorrow
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from an unused root meaning to be hot

the darkness H2822

H2822
חשׁך
chôshek
BDB Definition:
1) darkness, obscurity
1a) darkness
1b) secret place
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H2821

Night.H3915

H3915
לילה / ליל / ליל
layil / lêyl / layelâh
BDB Definition:
1) night
1a) night (as opposed to day)
1b) of gloom, protective shadow (figuratively)
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from the same as H3883

As I stated previously---prove what you say to Scriptures, and instead you give an opinion and belief that is not backed up with Scripture. In fact it adds to and changes the scriptures. And your information is skewed---and you did not answer my question

Genesis 8:22 says nothing about the hours in a day. . Gen 8:22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

Jesus asked if there were not 12 hours in a day in John 11:9. And we know that if we go by the cycles of the seasons which God created--daylight and night light do not stay the same. So what is your point? Daylight length is seasonal, but we know it is day and night. God created the night, and we generally use it to rest our bodies, and God called all He created very good. You have zero Scriptural proof for your statement concerning the darkness and night, and the concepts you have associated with them. Wishful thinking is not Scripture. But it can be heresy.

I stated previously, do not continue in the vein you are going with your statements. That is twice I have said it.