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Quote: grafted > Mark 8:30

Why didn't Jesus want anyone to know about him at that time?

Mar 8:26 And he sent him away to his house, saying, Neither go into the town, nor tell it to any in the town.
Mar 8:27 And Jesus went out, and his disciples, into the towns of Caesarea Philippi: and by the way he asked his disciples, saying unto them, Whom do men say that I am?
Mar 8:28 And they answered, John the Baptist: but some say, Elias; and others, One of the prophets.
Mar 8:29 And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ.
Mar 8:30 And he charged them that they should tell no man of him.
Mar 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.

There are other verses where Jesus commands silence as to who He is.

Jesus drives out the demon from the man in the synagogue.

Mark 1:23,24 Just then a man in their synagogue who was possessed by an evil spirit cried out, 24”What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are – the Holy One of God!”

25”Be quiet!” said Jesus sternly.


Jesus heals the sick and demon possessed.

Mark 1:33 The whole town gathered at the door, 34and Jesus healed many who had various diseases. He also drove out many demons, but he would not let the demons speak because they knew who he was.


Jesus heals the man with leprosy

Mark 1:43 Jesus sent him away at once with a strong warning: 44”See that you don't tell this to anyone.

Mark 3:11,12 Whenever the evil spirits saw him, they fell down before him and cried out, “You are the Son of God.” 12But he gave them strict orders not to tell who he was.

There are more occurrences of this.

Now this is just my opinion so I don't claim this to be truth.

During all of this, people did not know that He was the prophesied Messiah. They were expecting a mighty king, a warrior type. Not a gentle and wise Jesus.

I believe He wanted to maintain a low profile as to His being the Messiah (which would fulfill the prophetic expectations of signs and wonders) in order to quell popular messianic aspirations, enabling an unclouded response to the gospel. Again, just my opinion.

(11-18-2009 07:59 PM)boldlyproclaimingchrist Wrote: [ -> ]There are other verses where Jesus commands silence as to who He is.

Jesus drives out the demon from the man in the synagogue.

Mark 1:23,24 Just then a man in their synagogue who was possessed by an evil spirit cried out, 24”What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are – the Holy One of God!”

25”Be quiet!” said Jesus sternly.


Jesus heals the sick and demon possessed.

Mark 1:33 The whole town gathered at the door, 34and Jesus healed many who had various diseases. He also drove out many demons, but he would not let the demons speak because they knew who he was.


Jesus heals the man with leprosy

Mark 1:43 Jesus sent him away at once with a strong warning: 44”See that you don't tell this to anyone.

Mark 3:11,12 Whenever the evil spirits saw him, they fell down before him and cried out, “You are the Son of God.” 12But he gave them strict orders not to tell who he was.

There are more occurrences of this.

Now this is just my opinion so I don't claim this to be truth.

During all of this, people did not know that He was the prophesied Messiah. They were expecting a mighty king, a warrior type. Not a gentle and wise Jesus.

I believe He wanted to maintain a low profile as to His being the Messiah (which would fulfill the prophetic expectations of signs and wonders) in order to quell popular messianic aspirations, enabling an unclouded response to the gospel. Again, just my opinion.

I am not quite understanding what you are trying to convey. Thinking ....... if the people did not know that Jesus was the Messiah, then how could they believe on Him? OT Scripture prophesies exactly what the Messiah would do. If the people could not see or understand that through what Jesus did and said, how would any of them know to follow Him?

What if Jesus was staying clear of the Pharisees who were constantly putting him to the test and plotting His death? There are examples of what happened when people did "shout it from the house tops" and the Pharisees accosted Him and tried to stone Him on more than one occasion.

They followed Him but they didn't know who He was. Start from Mark 1 and you'll see. The crowds were amazed at what He was teaching but they didn't know who he was. When He told the disciples to follow Him, they didn't ask who He was and He didn't tell them. He gained a larger crowd of people following Him due to the miracles He performed, but they still didn't know who He was at that time.

(11-18-2009 09:27 PM)boldlyproclaimingchrist Wrote: [ -> ]They followed Him but they didn't know who He was. Start from Mark 1 and you'll see. The crowds were amazed at what He was teaching but they didn't know who he was. When He told the disciples to follow Him, they didn't ask who He was and He didn't tell them. He gained a larger crowd of people following Him due to the miracles He performed, but they still didn't know who He was at that time.

Lord's Blessing to All:

Excellent question Vic, Jesus's question to Peter and or us, is as relative today as it was then.

What's interesting to me in addition to 30 is 8:33, when Jesus tells satan to get behind Him, after Peter had rebuked Jesus because He had been teaching them, that He would suffer many things, put to death, and raised on the third day.

Oh boy, Satan has the easiest job cuz all he has to do is cause people to doubt. Verse 8:33 Jesus's elaborates "For you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men" Wow, Jesus was saying this to satan; your power comes from God, and is used by God to "work out" His Will and for those in Christ, to our good (Rom 8:28) and Christ's Glory, and one day you will be thrown into the lake of fire.

These verses remind me of Genesis Chapter 6, a story of Noah while building the arch before the flood. Noah was telling them to repent and that judgement from God was coming yet no one believed and they went about their daily business. As with the crowd of Jesus time, they too, were man focused instead of God centered.

But back to the question, I think that Jesus's knew that His Plan would not be thwarted, yet I think His point of telling His disciples not to discuss His Godhead as Messiah, was to confirm the religious leaders unbelief in God's Word and their belief that righteousness came by circumcision. They were as are many today, missing the truth of Gods Words and the sign of His prophecy as s said in Isaiah 53: 5 - 6,

5.) But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastiesement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed. 6.) All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his won way ; And the Lord has laid on Him the sins of us all.

Again they looked to circumcision or works of the law as a sign of Gods approval rather than looking to God and HIs Word. They had a mind set that was apart from God. His Grace and Righteousness was missed and they were yoked to 'works' rather than belief.

Paul states in Roman's 1:19, "because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. And Romans 3: 1 and 2,

1.) What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? 2.) Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God. Yet, 3:20, states that "therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 3:21.) But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets.

I think the religious leaders at that time had incorporated a political system wrapped up in the law which caused them to be 'self' motivated rather than faith and belief centered. They had a pre-conceived notion of what Messiah was to be, perhaps another Moses, born into an ruling class that had sign and wonders to dazzle them just as Moses had when crossing the Red Sea. [/size]

(08-05-2009 07:17 PM)Vic Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote: grafted > Mark 8:30

Why didn't Jesus want anyone to know about him at that time?

And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. [/color]

probably because if the people believed he was King of Israel, which he is and was, they would have taken him to use as a figurehead in their rebellion against Roman occupation, But of course the bondage He was most concerned about is our bondage to sin, for which he had to die, hence he passage i here kept imediately above: he had to die and could not permit anything that would prevent this

---

Oh, yes,
I follow Him but do not really know who he is also. And I warrant this is common. Oh, I can recite the words with the best of them, but that is not what heart knowledge is.

Thus, in knowing i am as blind as the original discples at this point i have no ground to feel superior to them just because i have read the end of the book.

Is it possible to follow him (in some sense) and not know him?

Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? .

And of course the Religious Right want the warrior Jesus, not the lamb of God , and as for myself I still insist on worshipping him as holy and terrible, the dread lord (an old appelation of monarchs) and mighty sovereign, Emperor.

so i do not know him though i experience him daily and our dialogue continues to this day

Put this with I John as a whole, summarized as "he who says he knows God but does not love his brother is a liar

(11-18-2009 09:27 PM)boldlyproclaimingchrist Wrote: [ -> ]They followed Him but they didn't know who He was. Start from Mark 1 and you'll see. The crowds were amazed at what He was teaching but they didn't know who he was. When He told the disciples to follow Him, they didn't ask who He was and He didn't tell them. He gained a larger crowd of people following Him due to the miracles He performed, but they still didn't know who He was at that time.

In discussing this topic, there was something that bothered me, so I decided to look at the Gospels to see if the disciples and the people [who believed on Jesus] knew who Jesus Christ was during His ministry.

Here are some passages for you to judge for yourself.

Mat 2:1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
Mat 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews?for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
Mat 2:3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled,and all Jerusalem with him.
Matt 2:4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together,he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
Mat 2:5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,
Mat 2:6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda:for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.


John the Baptist knew in the womb, plus lots of people witnessed the baptism of Christ:

Mar 1:9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
Mar 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
Mar 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Perhaps this is a hint as to why Jesus told those He healed not to speak of it - He would be mobbed by people:

Mar 1:45 But he went out, and began to publish it much, and to blaze abroad the matter, insomuch that Jesus could no more openly enter into the city, but was without in desert places: and they came to him from every quarter.

Mar 2:1 And again he entered into Capernaum after some days; and it was noised that he was in the house.
Mar 2:2 And straightway many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive them, no, not so much as about the door: and he preached the word unto them.

Other passages that show the disciples and the people knew who He was:

Mark 3
Mark 5

Mary knew:

Luk 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Luk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Joseph knew:

Mat 1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.


Elizabeth and Zacharias knew:

Luk 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
Luk 1:68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
Luk 1:69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
Luk 1:70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
Luk 1:71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
Luk 1:72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
Luk 1:73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
Luk 1:74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
Luk 1:75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
Luk 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;
Luk 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
Luk 1:78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,
Luk 1:79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.


The shepherds knew:

Luk 2:8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
Luk 2:9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
Luk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
Luk 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
Luk 2:12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
Luk 2:13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
Luk 2:14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
Luk 2:15 And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.
Luk 2:16 And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.
Luk 2:17 And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child.
Luk 2:18 And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds.
Luk 2:19 But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart.
Luk 2:20 And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them.


Simeon knew:


Luk 2:25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.
Luk 2:26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
Luk 2:27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
Luk 2:28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,
Luk 2:29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
Luk 2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
Luk 2:31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
Luk 2:32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
Luk 2:33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.
Luk 2:34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;
Luk 2:35 (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.


Anna, the prophetess knew:


Luk 2:36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;
Luk 2:37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.
Luk 2:38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.


Do you think when Jesus cast out the demons and they screamed at Him that He was the Christ that people did not hear this?

Luk 4:40 Now when the sun was setting, all they that had any sick with divers diseases brought them unto him; and he laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them.
Luk 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.


Jesus told the disciples this after feeding the 5,000:



Luk 9:18 And it came to pass, as he was alone praying, his disciples were with him: and he asked them, saying, Whom say the people that I am?
Luk 9:19 They answering said, John the Baptist; but some say, Elias; and others say, that one of the old prophets is risen again.
Luk 9:20 He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God.
Luk 9:21 And he straitly charged them, and commanded them to tell no man that thing;


The disciples knew who He was as soon as He called them to follow Him:

Joh 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Joh 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
Joh 1:35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
Joh 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
Joh 1:37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
Joh 1:38 Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou?
Joh 1:39 He saith unto them, Come and see. They came and saw where he dwelt, and abode with him that day: for it was about the tenth hour.
Joh 1:40 One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother.
Joh 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.
Joh 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.
Joh 1:43 The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me.
Joh 1:44 Now Philip was of Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter.
Joh 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
Joh 1:46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
Joh 1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
Joh 1:48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
Joh 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
Joh 1:50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.
Joh 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.


The woman at the well knew who He was:


Joh 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
Joh 4:26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
Joh 4:27 And upon this came his disciples, and marvelled that he talked with the woman: yet no man said, What seekest thou? or, Why talkest thou with her?
Joh 4:28 The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men,
Joh 4:29 Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?

The people knew who He was [just a sample]:


Joh 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Joh 7:40 Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.
Joh 7:41 Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?
Joh 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
Joh 7:43 So there was a division among the people because of him.
Joh 7:44 And some of them would have taken him; but no man laid hands on him.

Joh 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Mat 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

Mat 20:30 And, behold, two blind men sitting by the way side, when they heard that Jesus passed by, cried out, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, thou Son of David.

Mat 21:9 And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest. [Hosanna means "save us, Lord" - they cried this out to Jesus because they knew who He was]

Here it is explained why Jesus told people not to say who He was:

Mat 12:15 But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;
Mat 12:16 And charged them that they should not make him known:
Mat 12:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
Mat 12:18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
Mat 12:19 He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.
Mat 12:20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
Mat 12:21 And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.
Mat 12:22 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.
Mat 12:23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?


Mary and Martha knews:

Joh 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Joh 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

I agree sheep - great post!