SeekGod.ca Discussion Forum

In these times of the many claims of spiritual giftings, is one that can have incredible impact on others. That is the claimed gift of prophecy.

Paul wrote in 1 Thessalonians 5:19-20 19. Quench not the Spirit. 20. Despise not prophesyings.

So how do we know if someone is really a prophet?

Are there real prophets today?
If so, how does one become a prophet?

Can a prophet give new revelation?
Can they say things contrary to Scripture and be a prophet of God?
Can they say things that don't come true and still be a prophet of God?

(11-09-2009 05:39 PM)Vic Wrote: [ -> ]In these times of the many claims of spiritual giftings, is one that can have incredible impact on others. That is the claimed gift of prophecy.

Paul wrote in 1 Thessalonians 5:19-20 19. Quench not the Spirit. 20. Despise not prophesyings.

So how do we know if someone is really a prophet?

Are there real prophets today?
If so, how does one become a prophet?

Can a prophet give new revelation?
Can they say things contrary to Scripture and be a prophet of God?
Can they say things that don't come true and still be a prophet of God?

I do hope Chris and Rick and Barley will jump right in here and give us their insights. I will be the first to admit I am wrong if my beliefs are off Scripture.

Is it written in Scripture that people will become prophets 2000 years after Christ? I doubt God is choosing people to be prophets in our day. One of the easiest ways to convince me that an individual is not of God, is when the individual claims to have special revelations and abilities from God that nobody else has, or that clash with what Scripture has already told us.

(12-06-2009 01:06 PM)YYZ Skinhead Wrote: [ -> ]Is it written in Scripture that people will become prophets 2000 years after Christ? I doubt God is choosing people to be prophets in our day. One of the easiest ways to convince me that an individual is not of God, is when the individual claims to have special revelations and abilities from God that nobody else has, or that clash with what Scripture has already told us.

If we have Scripture - which is completed, inspired, infallible, God-breathed - we know that it is God's truth. When man steps forward to speak "for God", there is no guarantee that he really is. And like you stated, what would be the point? The Bible is our perfect revealed Truth about EVERYTHING God wants for us to know!!!

(12-06-2009 03:27 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: [ -> ] If we have Scripture - which is completed, inspired, infallible, God-breathed - we know that it is God's truth. When man steps forward to speak "for God", there is no guarantee that he really is. And like you stated, what would be the point? The Bible is our perfect revealed Truth about EVERYTHING God wants for us to know!!!

Whatever happened to God's Word?

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Have we come into the unity of the faith, yet?

Rom 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

Is everyone not tossed to and fro anymore?

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Doesn't say He just gave the Word. Says He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

According to the Lord and His Word, these ministries are still needed.

I have only seen 1 or 2 people in my lifetime that I would consider apostles. No one you would know. Apostles just mean "sent one". Today's Apostles are not like the original 12. They don't write scripture.

(12-06-2009 10:10 PM)heb13-13 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-06-2009 03:27 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: [ -> ] If we have Scripture - which is completed, inspired, infallible, God-breathed - we know that it is God's truth. When man steps forward to speak "for God", there is no guarantee that he really is. And like you stated, what would be the point? The Bible is our perfect revealed Truth about EVERYTHING God wants for us to know!!!

Whatever happened to God's Word?

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Have we come into the unity of the faith, yet?

Rom 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

Is everyone not tossed to and fro anymore?

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Doesn't say He just gave the Word. Says He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

According to the Lord and His Word, these ministries are still needed.

I have only seen 1 or 2 people in my lifetime that I would consider apostles. No one you would know. Apostles just mean "sent one". Today's Apostles are not like the original 12. They don't write scripture.

I understand that Apostle means "messenger, sent by God" (King James Dictionary). I know Paul was an apostle because the Word tells us so and because he gave us the message - the word - from God. But what message would today's apostles give us?

Rev 22 vs 18 -19
# For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
# And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

So, if the bible is the complete word, what more does anyone have to say from God?

(12-07-2009 06:05 AM)Mary Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-06-2009 10:10 PM)heb13-13 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-06-2009 03:27 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: [ -> ] If we have Scripture - which is completed, inspired, infallible, God-breathed - we know that it is God's truth. When man steps forward to speak "for God", there is no guarantee that he really is. And like you stated, what would be the point? The Bible is our perfect revealed Truth about EVERYTHING God wants for us to know!!!

Whatever happened to God's Word?

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Have we come into the unity of the faith, yet?

Rom 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

Is everyone not tossed to and fro anymore?

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Doesn't say He just gave the Word. Says He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

According to the Lord and His Word, these ministries are still needed.

I have only seen 1 or 2 people in my lifetime that I would consider apostles. No one you would know. Apostles just mean "sent one". Today's Apostles are not like the original 12. They don't write scripture.

I understand that Apostle means "messenger, sent by God" (King James Dictionary). I know Paul was an apostle because the Word tells us so and because he gave us the message - the word - from God. But what message would today's apostles give us?

Rev 22 vs 18 -19
# For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
# And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

So, if the bible is the complete word, what more does anyone have to say from God?

I think you missed my point. I have already said that today's apostles do not transmit *new* inspired scripture from the Holy Spirit. They are "sent ones". There are no more Apostles that write scripture. A friend of mind said, "then all missionaries are apostles". Well not really. Not all Pastors are truly pastors and not all evangelists are truly evangelists. God calls and gifts His children not bible schools or man.

...Till we all come in the unity of the faith <<< This is not accomplished yet.

Also, don't forget we don't just need the Word but the Holy Spirit, also.

(12-07-2009 10:24 AM)heb13-13 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-07-2009 06:05 AM)Mary Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-06-2009 10:10 PM)heb13-13 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-06-2009 03:27 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: [ -> ] If we have Scripture - which is completed, inspired, infallible, God-breathed - we know that it is God's truth. When man steps forward to speak "for God", there is no guarantee that he really is. And like you stated, what would be the point? The Bible is our perfect revealed Truth about EVERYTHING God wants for us to know!!!

Whatever happened to God's Word?

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Have we come into the unity of the faith, yet?

Rom 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

Is everyone not tossed to and fro anymore?

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Doesn't say He just gave the Word. Says He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

According to the Lord and His Word, these ministries are still needed.

I have only seen 1 or 2 people in my lifetime that I would consider apostles. No one you would know. Apostles just mean "sent one". Today's Apostles are not like the original 12. They don't write scripture.

I understand that Apostle means "messenger, sent by God" (King James Dictionary). I know Paul was an apostle because the Word tells us so and because he gave us the message - the word - from God. But what message would today's apostles give us?

Rev 22 vs 18 -19
# For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
# And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

So, if the bible is the complete word, what more does anyone have to say from God?

I think you missed my point. I have already said that today's apostles do not transmit *new* inspired scripture from the Holy Spirit. They are "sent ones". There are no more Apostles that write scripture. A friend of mind said, "then all missionaries are apostles". Well not really. Not all Pastors are truly pastors and not all evangelists are truly evangelists. God calls and gifts His children not bible schools or man.

...Till we all come in the unity of the faith <<< This is not accomplished yet.

Also, don't forget we don't just need the Word but the Holy Spirit, also.

No, I got your point, thanks. Mine was that an apostle is not merely "sent" he is sent with a specific purpose to bring a message, but since the word is complete, what specific message would an apostle have today? You say you have met people who are apostles - what distinguished that for you?

(12-07-2009 10:24 AM)heb13-13 Wrote: [ -> ]I think you missed my point. I have already said that today's apostles do not transmit *new* inspired scripture from the Holy Spirit. They are "sent ones". There are no more Apostles that write scripture. A friend of mind said, "then all missionaries are apostles". Well not really. Not all Pastors are truly pastors and not all evangelists are truly evangelists. God calls and gifts His children not bible schools or man.

...Till we all come in the unity of the faith <<< This is not accomplished yet.

Also, don't forget we don't just need the Word but the Holy Spirit, also.

Let's back up to Acts 1

Act 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Note that Jesus said this to the apostles HE chose, which were the ones who witnessed that He appeared to - verse 3.

Further down in Acts 1 - the requirements to be an apostle are reiterated:

Act 1:21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
Act 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
Act 1:23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
Act 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
Act 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
Act 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Paul was the exception, but we know from inspired Scripture that he was chosen to be an apostle [stated 9 times in the NT]:

Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)


Please show from scripture that there were any other apostles and that the requirements changed, and who had the authority to change what Jesus said.

"Apostles" today are self appointed, did not walk and witness Jesus Christ in person, teach "new revelations", add to the Word of God, subtract from the Word of God, lay hands on people indiscriminately or by a voice, "anoint" others to be apostles, lay hands on others to be apostles, talk in gibberish over people, knock them to the ground, slay them in the spirit, have nice offices, take tithes and offerings, manifest laughing, howling, barking, jerking, screaming, crying, grieving, slithering, etc. Please show me in Scripture that they have the right to do any of these things or that this is of God or mandated by Christ?

Why there are no apostles today and why we have already "all come in the unity of the faith":


Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in *all things*, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Please note - we have come to the knowledge of the Son of God, are new creatures [the righteousness of God in Christ - a perfect man], and into the measure of the fulness of Christ. How? Because they apostles taught us through the letters of the NT and through the Gospels how that is accomplished. They were the foundation of the church with Christ the Cornerstone and the prophets. When the Word of God was completed there was no need for the five-fold ministry.

There is no more double mindedness when one is a believer with the indwelt Holy Spirit reading the Word of God - which is a LIVING WORD for the spiritual man.

This is what John tells us:

1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

(12-07-2009 03:15 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-07-2009 10:24 AM)heb13-13 Wrote: [ -> ]I think you missed my point. I have already said that today's apostles do not transmit *new* inspired scripture from the Holy Spirit. They are "sent ones". There are no more Apostles that write scripture. A friend of mind said, "then all missionaries are apostles". Well not really. Not all Pastors are truly pastors and not all evangelists are truly evangelists. God calls and gifts His children not bible schools or man.

...Till we all come in the unity of the faith <<< This is not accomplished yet.

Also, don't forget we don't just need the Word but the Holy Spirit, also.

Let's back up to Acts 1

Act 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Note that Jesus said this to the apostles HE chose, which were the ones who witnessed that He appeared to - verse 3.

Further down in Acts 1 - the requirements to be an apostle are reiterated:

Act 1:21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
Act 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
Act 1:23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
Act 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
Act 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
Act 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Paul was the exception, but we know from inspired Scripture that he was chosen to be an apostle [stated 9 times in the NT]:

Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)


Please show from scripture that there were any other apostles and that the requirements changed, and who had the authority to change what Jesus said.

"Apostles" today are self appointed, did not walk and witness Jesus Christ in person, teach "new revelations", add to the Word of God, subtract from the Word of God, lay hands on people indiscriminately or by a voice, "anoint" others to be apostles, lay hands on others to be apostles, talk in gibberish over people, knock them to the ground, slay them in the spirit, have nice offices, take tithes and offerings, manifest laughing, howling, barking, jerking, screaming, crying, grieving, slithering, etc. Please show me in Scripture that they have the right to do any of these things or that this is of God or mandated by Christ?

Why there are no apostles today and why we have already "all come in the unity of the faith":


Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in *all things*, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Please note - we have come to the knowledge of the Son of God, are new creatures [the righteousness of God in Christ - a perfect man], and into the measure of the fulness of Christ. How? Because they apostles taught us through the letters of the NT and through the Gospels how that is accomplished. They were the foundation of the church with Christ the Cornerstone and the prophets. When the Word of God was completed there was no need for the five-fold ministry.

There is no more double mindedness when one is a believer with the indwelt Holy Spirit reading the Word of God - which is a LIVING WORD for the spiritual man.

This is what John tells us:

1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

I had just gone and read Acts 1 -thank you for the clear presentation