SeekGod.ca Discussion Forum

Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch."

This passage is the intro to the Date Setting Hypocrisy article http://www.seekgod.ca/raptured.htm . Does Jesus still not know the hour of His return? If not, how is this possible since He is omniscient? Was He speaking as a Man, since at that time He still had a material Body? Now that He is back in Heaven, has He voluntarily set Himself not to know the time till the Father tells Him? (Is it blasphemous to ask? I've heard this used by people who want to say that Jesus is not God and the Bible contradicts itself.)

(12-06-2010 02:22 PM)YYZ Skinhead Wrote: [ -> ]Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch."

This passage is the intro to the Date Setting Hypocrisy article http://www.seekgod.ca/raptured.htm . Does Jesus still not know the hour of His return? If not, how is this possible since He is omniscient? Was He speaking as a Man, since at that time He still had a material Body? Now that He is back in Heaven, has He voluntarily set Himself not to know the time till the Father tells Him? (Is it blasphemous to ask? I've heard this used by people who want to say that Jesus is not God and the Bible contradicts itself.)

Vic and I had a discussion on how to answer your question It was a good one!!!! And definitely not blasphemous to ask

Those who try to use anything to say that Jesus is not God will attempt to use and misuse all Scriptures for their own purposes Jesus was God manifest in the flesh but he was also man. We can't claim to have a full understanding on these things and are not going to fully understand until we see Him face to face

Looking at Mark 13, perhaps the question could be asked in a different way. For instance: Instead of “why does Jesus not know”, but rather - why did He say it that way?

What is the main focus of that passage? Did Jesus want us to know that it was not important as to the day or time, that it is in God's Hands? Does the passage show that He doesn’t want people date setting and presuming that they could figure out the time? Instead of being focused on that, we should rather be desirous about doing God's business and be ready always - to put the emphasis on being prepared for Christ to come by how we live and our service to Him, not by thinking about the day and time

Does that help with the perspective from a different angle?

Props to both of you for answering my goofy question. (Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. I had to figure out a way to verbalize what I was thinking.)

I think what Jesus is saying--especially since it's reiterated throughout the NT--is that Believers must always be sober and vigilant because no sinner (which includes everyone) has access to that Divine knowledge. (Remember what happened the first time people sought after knowledge that was only for God to know, in the Garden of Eden.)

It's none of our business when He is coming. We need to live as though He could be coming every minute. I could drop dead while typing this so I always need to be ready for His coming. I think it's another "blind faith" issue where people just need to take God's word for it.

(12-11-2010 01:16 PM)YYZ Skinhead Wrote: [ -> ] Props to both of you for answering my goofy question. (Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. I had to figure out a way to verbalize what I was thinking.)

I think what Jesus is saying--especially since it's reiterated throughout the NT--is that Believers must always be sober and vigilant because no sinner (which includes everyone) has access to that Divine knowledge. (Remember what happened the first time people sought after knowledge that was only for God to know, in the Garden of Eden.)

It's none of our business when He is coming. We need to live as though He could be coming every minute. I could drop dead while typing this so I always need to be ready for His coming. I think it's another "blind faith" issue where people just need to take God's word for it.

Good thoughts! And your questions have never been goofy...challenging us sometimes but never goofy.

I was noticing how Paul reiterated the teaching in this passage:

1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. 7. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. 8. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 9. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10. Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 11. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

I have been thinking about this for some time now. Today I read Ecclesiastes 9, and I think there may be some more "clues" in this chapter to understanding Mark 13.


For all this I considered in my heart even to declare all this, that the righteous, and the wise, and their works, are in the hand of God: no man knoweth either love or hatred by all that is before them.
All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath.
This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.
Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment.
Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun.
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.
For man also knoweth not his time: as the fishes that are taken in an evil net, and as the birds that are caught in the snare; so are the sons of men snared in an evil time, when it falleth suddenly upon them.
This wisdom have I seen also under the sun, and it seemed great unto me:
There was a little city, and few men within it; and there came a great king against it, and besieged it, and built great bulwarks against it:
Now there was found in it a poor wise man, and he by his wisdom delivered the city; yet no man remembered that same poor man.
Then said I, Wisdom is better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom is despised, and his words are not heard.
The words of wise men are heard in quiet more than the cry of him that ruleth among fools.
Wisdom is better than weapons of war: but one sinner destroyeth much good.

It is particularly the parable of the wise man who saved the city, that is of interest. Any thoughts/comments?