I'm wondering when does a person err into vain repetitions when they pray?
I know when we pray we are to believe that God hears us and will answer us if we are praying in His will.
1John 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
1Jn 5:15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
I have a tendency to ask God for the same things quite frequently,mostly because it doesn't seem as though I have received what I've prayed for.
I seem to ask God for knowledge and understanding every day.God has given me some knowledge and understanding of which I am very thankful but I would like more.
Paul wrote ..
2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
Besought
G3870
παρακαλέω
parakaleō
par-ak-al-eh'-o
From G3844 and G2564; to call near, that is, invite, invoke (by imploration, hortation or consolation): - beseech, call for, (be of good) comfort, desire, (give) exhort (-ation), intreat, pray.
So when should we stop asking God for something..after asking Him 3 times?
When do prayers become vain repetitions?
Lois, I have sometimes wondered the same as you as there are some things which I always pray for on a regular basis.These usually tend to be the ones where I pray for my family and I always tend to pray for the same things.
The vain repetitions mentioned in the NT
Mat 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
Mat 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Mat 6:8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
seem to refer a bit to what I do however it would feel strange not to thank God and ask for the wellbeing and protection for my family every single day.
Could it be however that the vain repetitions refer to lengthier prayers that are used repetitvely as a means to obtaining things from God.
It reminds me of when catholics pray rosaries for a certain intention.As if God needed more of our prayers to give us what we pray for.
The same goes for those who pray Psalms ,some even in a particular place, in order to obtain from God what the request.
For me the words in the NT are comforting in that we don't have to pray and pray until God relents.That is not being accepting of his will but constantly battling it and forcing God to accede to our wishes.
So while we do present our requests and needs etc to the Lord each day
if we want, we are secure in the knowledge that He knows our needs etc and that He knows the best way.And if God doesn't appear to be answering our prayers in the way we want them answered it doesn't mean that we have to pray more and harder to achieve it.
As to the Paul example,I think it shows Paul's acceptance of the situation.He is talking about a personal affliction that He prayed 3 times for and then left it in God's hands.
I can so identify with this as I suffer from a long term medical condition, which I have accepted.I have a christian friend with the same condition who seems to sadly spend her time trying to force a healing.She is pentecostal and tries through so many different ways to get a healing.To me this is not acceptance of God's will, even though I haven't told her that to her face.
(12-13-2011 04:07 AM)Lois Wrote: [ -> ]I'm wondering when does a person err into vain repetitions when they pray?
I know when we pray we are to believe that God hears us and will answer us if we are praying in His will.
1John 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
1Jn 5:15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
I have a tendency to ask God for the same things quite frequently,mostly because it doesn't seem as though I have received what I've prayed for.
I seem to ask God for knowledge and understanding every day.God has given me some knowledge and understanding of which I am very thankful but I would like more.
Paul wrote ..
2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
Besought
G3870
παρακαλέω
parakaleō
par-ak-al-eh'-o
From G3844 and G2564; to call near, that is, invite, invoke (by imploration, hortation or consolation): - beseech, call for, (be of good) comfort, desire, (give) exhort (-ation), intreat, pray.
So when should we stop asking God for something..after asking Him 3 times?
When do prayers become vain repetitions?
Hi Lois,
Have been enjoying your posts.
Vain repetitions really are empty prayers with no expectation of an answer, in my mind, because they spiritually are out of God's will.
Mat 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
Mat 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Mat 6:8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
Mantras, and recited prayers, and prayers done in public, etc to impress others how spiritual they are, lead to no answer from God.
However, we see this:
Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Jas 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
Jas 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
So when we ask and pray, we need to pray believing we will indeed be heard of God and He will indeed answer. Sometimes we have to wait. But remember what Jesus said in Luke 18:
Luk 18:1 And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;
Luk 18:2 Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man:
Luk 18:3 And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary.
Luk 18:4 And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man;
Luk 18:5 Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.
Luk 18:6 And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.
Luk 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
Luk 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
I think continuing in prayer over desiring understanding and wisdom and knowledge of God's Word is praying in God's will, and therefore will be answered over time. He wants us to understand in order to grow in grace and knowledge of Him. So you are praying in God's will. Every little step forward in that is an answer to that prayer.
2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2Pe 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 1:3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 1:4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
1Co 1:5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
1Co 1:6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
1Co 1:7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Co 1:8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Hope that helps answer your question somewhat. 
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
It helps me a lot Vic,thanks so very much.I guess we all probably wonder at some point if we are praying the way would should.I'm learning how to pray,talk to God anew really.I have spent pretty much my entire life only praying in tongues because I was taught that it was "perfect prayer" and that if you don't know what to pray pray in tongues you can't go wrong praying in tongues ect,ect.I had very rarely used my own words to pray.Believing and living those lies for so long has left me feeling very stunted in that area.I very much feel like a small child learning to talk.
When I go to pray.I find myself just sitting there totally blank not knowing what to say.then I'm stammering and stuttering over my words.
I have to ask God to teach me pretty much every day because I have no clue. lol
(12-17-2011 09:50 PM)Lois Wrote: [ -> ]It helps me a lot Vic,thanks so very much.I guess we all probably wonder at some point if we are praying the way would should.I'm learning how to pray,talk to God anew really.I have spent pretty much my entire life only praying in tongues because I was taught that it was "perfect prayer" and that if you don't know what to pray pray in tongues you can't go wrong praying in tongues ect,ect.I had very rarely used my own words to pray.Believing and living those lies for so long has left me feeling very stunted in that area.I very much feel like a small child learning to talk.
When I go to pray.I find myself just sitting there totally blank not knowing what to say.then I'm stammering and stuttering over my words.
I have to ask God to teach me pretty much every day because I have no clue. lol
I can understand your confusion on it, Lois. Obviously it was strong deception. Every one of us needs to seek the Lord daily for direction and understanding, so don't feel you are alone in that.
Think of it all this way. How would you sit down and talk to your best friend? Just as you write and talk about these things here, you can talk to God in the same way. Keeping in mind that even when we don't know exactly how to pray or what to pray for, the Holy Spirit does. And Jesus makes intercession for us, always. 
You just start saying how you feel, whether it's sad, confused, wondering, joyous, relieved God hears, etc. Remember how Jesus taught the disciples how to pray....He started with, Our Father... I tend to start, Father, thank you for....and go from there.
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Pro 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Ephesians 6:10-18 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 15. And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16. Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. 17. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: 18. Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
