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Trinity, Oneness and The Persons of the Godhead - Vic - 01-11-2009 07:48 PM
From Hope Secure:
Quote:I was in the public library one day reading at a table, minding my own business, and a young man sat down at the same table, he said what are you reading. It was Law and Grace by A J. McClain. He said I do not believe in the doctrine of the Trinity but the oneness doctrine. I explained that 3 Persons in 1 God was my belief. I had not heard of the oneness doctrine until then.
So the question is---what is the difference between the different views? What is Oneness doctrine? and What does the Bible say about all this?
RE: Trinity, Oneness and The Persons of the Godhead - strefanash - 01-11-2009 09:07 PM
can i place a link here? if not please delete it
I had an idea what oneness was, just thought I'd check
http://www.carm.org/oneness.htm
from our old friends at CARM, i discovered after googling the thing. (sheepwrecked has had dealings with CARM, in fact she and i met there)
They, Oneness that is, claim the trinity is tri theism. ie three gods, so they hold that Jesus only is God (and not the Father or the Spirit).
It very odd , how can they get away with it? If the trinity is not true it makes more sense to deny the divinity of the Son not the Father.
Of course it is idolatry. they dont worship Jesus they make an idolatrous image of him, worship that then inflate it beyond all proper restgraint
and, most revealing, the link says they are legalistic.
RE: Trinity, Oneness and The Persons of the Godhead - strefanash - 01-11-2009 10:18 PM
I took a closer look at their anti trinitarianism. With the proviso that I do not completely trust the source of this document, it appears that they, the Oneness people, are Sabellian, (after Sabellius who invented this in eary church times)or Modalist - that God manifested in three modes, first the Father, then the Son during His incarnation, and now as the Spirit.
An old heresy, proof there is nothing new under the sun
RE: Trinity, Oneness and The Persons of the Godhead - Hope Secure - 01-11-2009 11:31 PM
(01-11-2009 10:18 PM)strefanash Wrote: I took a closer look at their anti trinitarianism. With the proviso that I do not completely trust the source of this document, it appears that they, the Oneness people, are Sabellian, (after Sabellius who invented this in eary church times)or Modalist - that God manifested in three modes, first the Father, then the Son during His incarnation, and now as the Spirit.
An old heresy, proof there is nothing new under the sun
Thanks strefanash, did check the link that was posted, and appreciated the information in your replies. I got to thinking what this oneness heresy would do to the revealed biblical truth of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It would certainly be an attack on the Son a denial of His nature, and thus a denial of Grace.
RE: Trinity, Oneness and The Persons of the Godhead - Emjesown - 01-12-2009 08:52 AM
They deny the Trinity, require baptism for salvation, are legalistic, and do not preach the true gospel.
The danger of this is:
Oneness stands on itself, but when you mix it with "pentecostal,messianic, baptist" or any other denomination, you get confusen.
Oneness for me is, just God is ECHAD!
One, not 3.
I was raised catholic and i learnt that God is 3 persons
God the Father, God the Son end God the holy Spirit.
And i learnt to see that is a wrong view.
Gon is a triunity, not a trinity (i am a language-freak)
What's the difference you might ask.
For me there is a big difference.
So I think i am oneness, but not mixed like "oneness-pentecostal" or any other ....oneness +.......
This is my thought on it:
God is ONE
He came in the flesh (Jesus) but still ONE.
Not 2. The Holy Spirit is HIS Spirit therefor HOLY.
We are 3 to in a way....
I EMJE have a body(1)
and a spirit (2), but my spirit is not holy.
And my soul is who i am, character, emotions, mind etc.
But i am still ONE person.
God said: "Let us make men to our likeness......
His likeness is also 3 components (mabey wrong word)
He is Spirit and became a man, and has a Spirit wich is Holy.
I believe Jesus had the same Spirit as God does, He testefy's with His Spirit to our spirit.
When He went away from earth He promised us His Spirit, to convict us, correct us and learn us all He had said, therefor the Holy Spirit is not a person that lives in us, but Hiw power, His spirit.
God is Spirit not to be seen, His Spirit in us is also not to be seen, execept in our actions, the fruit!
I hope i explained it clearly, becaus i find it difficult to express in words what i feel and think about this topic.
EMJE
RE: Trinity, Oneness and The Persons of the Godhead - Hope Secure - 01-12-2009 11:36 AM
Hi Emue, I was also raised catholic, and in my thirties began to have doubts about religion, certainly what I thought being a loyal catholic was brought no real inner joy. One day I remembered the Bible that was in the house, & went to get it. Happen to open the Bible up to Jeremiah 29/13 "And ye shall seek Me, and find Me,-----."
It has been a struggle to learn His Word, so many trials and dangers, when first studying Romans, I had to stop in discouragement as this epistle seemed so hard to understand. Only now do I read it with Joy as the Holy Spirit helps me. The Holy Spirit has used others along the way to hellp me. I know the word trinity is not in the Bible, and your post did help, as trinity again must come from catholic background. Hope to talk more, it was great to receive replies to my question.
RE: Trinity, Oneness and The Persons of the Godhead - emmythesweet - 01-12-2009 10:22 PM
coolsign I have been thinking about what exactly is it that I believe of this topic. There seems to be a lot of debate between trinitarians and oneness believers which circles round and round. :s :what::-/
In my view Jesus is the son of God, not just an ordinary dude...but so much more.
Joh 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.
He was sent by God,
Joh 8:25 So they said to him, "Who are you?" Jesus said to them, "Just what I have been telling you from the beginning.
Joh 8:26 I have much to say about you and much to judge, but he who sent me is true, and I declare to the world what I have heard from him."
Joh 8:27 They did not understand that he had been speaking to them about the Father.
Joh 5:36 But the testimony that I have is greater than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to accomplish, the very works that I am doing, bear witness about me that the Father has sent me.
He was at the beginning with God,
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God. Joh 1:3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
He is the mediator, 1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
the shepherd as well as the lamb,
Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
Joh 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
He sits at the right hand of the father. Mar 16:19 So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.
This one is interesting... as the Father seems to think and act without the sons knowledge
Mar 13:32 "But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
food for thought
From Emmy
RE: Trinity, Oneness and The Persons of the Godhead - sheep wrecked - 01-14-2009 06:59 PM
I did some searching on Oneness theology and found a really good article at the Watchman Fellowship/Expositer, written by Jason Barker:
http://www.watchman.org/profile/onenesspro.htm
From what I understand oneness believes this [taken from the article]:
* God is Jesus [different than Jesus is God] and was temporarily manifested as Jesus in human form.
* Jesus in human form was not God.
* Jesus, the Son, is the ultimate expression of the oneness of God, not a distinct Person separate from the God the Father.
* The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are "titles" that describe God's [Jesus'] relationships to humanity.
* Oneness believes that a person must be baptized to be saved and they must be baptized in Jesus' Name only [known as the "Jesus Only" formula], or they are not saved.
RE: Trinity, Oneness and The Persons of the Godhead - Hope Secure - 01-16-2009 04:34 PM
They say you are never too old to learn, sometimes I wonder about that!!! Vic I hope I'm using the correct post procedure here.
I think of that young man in the public library and would have liked to give him the following for encouragement in the belief of 3 Persons in l God. (Found today after googled Biblical Basis of Trinity.This site was one I entered. spotlightministries.org.uk. First time I ever went in this website)
"What Difference Does the Doctrine of the Trinity Make?"
"
A 10 point outline, 3 of them were Mystery:--unlike anything we can comprehend Rom 11:33-36; Isa. 40:18. Unity:-- unity of the three Persons is basis and model for the unity of the church John 17:21-23. Humility:--as the persons of the Trinity seek the glory of each other, so we should seek the interests of others above our own: Phil. 2:5-11; John 16: 13-14"
There was no room to post other 7 points of the outline.
RE: Trinity, Oneness and The Persons of the Godhead - sheep wrecked - 01-16-2009 06:24 PM
(01-16-2009 04:34 PM)Hope Secure Wrote: They say you are never too old to learn, sometimes I wonder about that!!! Vic I hope I'm using the correct post procedure here.
I think of that young man in the public library and would have liked to give him the following for encouragement in the belief of 3 Persons in l God. (Found today after googled Biblical Basis of Trinity.This site was one I entered. spotlightministries.org.uk. First time I ever went in this website)
"What Difference Does the Doctrine of the Trinity Make?"
"
A 10 point outline, 3 of them were Mystery:--unlike anything we can comprehend Rom 11:33-36; Isa. 40:18. Unity:-- unity of the three Persons is basis and model for the unity of the church John 17:21-23. Humility:--as the persons of the Trinity seek the glory of each other, so we should seek the interests of others above our own: Phil. 2:5-11; John 16: 13-14"
There was no room to post other 7 points of the outline.
I went to the website but could not find this specific teaching - do you have a link for it? I am a bit puzzled by these statements, and would like to see the context
