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+--- Thread: Tithing (/showthread.php?tid=116)
RE: Tithing - pastor_chris - 07-24-2009 08:30 PM
I guess I just cant do anything right on this board! You guys trying to run me off? if you want me to go just tell me! HOLY COW! Is that better LOL
RE: Tithing - Vic - 07-24-2009 08:31 PM
(07-24-2009 06:36 PM)Liberated by Faith Wrote: I disagree. Pastors should be paid for their ministry. Paul spoke of the not muzzling the ox that treadeth the corn in the context of pastors for a reason.'
The ox was not to be muzzled so it could eat when it got hungry as it was doing its work. The food it ate was its reward for serving the farmer.
It is the same with the pastor. He should be paid for his service. The same passage states that the laborer is worthy of his hire.
Pastoring is a full-time job and pastors are to be compensated for their service just as God's Word declares.
I share Christ and work doing these things full time-which some have called a mission field-- and take no paycheck...tithes or donations.... where's the lineup for the compensation for doing what God called me too...
Oh wait....
Mat 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
Mat 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Mat 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Jas 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
Matthew 16:24-27 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? 27. For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
But you aren't talking about that are you?
If God lays it on someone's heart to support His work--whoever is doing it---then that is good enough for me. And those who don't receive--either because of lack of faith, or because it is not God's will to receive more than they already have or He has provided what you are to be satisfied with....that's the catch isn't it?
Being satisfied with what each would claim to have thanked God for....and yet saying someone didn't give you enough. Quite a quandry---to say thank you to God and complain ...all in the same breath.
RE: Tithing - pastor_chris - 07-24-2009 08:35 PM
Vic,
Why don't you understand that a pastor teacher is a special call. It is different than your call, much different. Trust me I know! Pastors are worthy of their wage. Otherwise the Bible wouldn't tell us to #1 appoint them and #2 to compensate them. You are in error my sister. I am so sorry to have to break that to you. I will pray that God may open your eyes to the truth. Maybe He will!
RE: Tithing - Vic - 07-24-2009 08:36 PM
(07-24-2009 08:15 PM)pastor_chris Wrote: Vic,
Do you really think is was cursing?
I actually do say what I mean Chris. It is a short form of cursing around here, as I stated. And since Rose also noticed it...it's just a thing you should be aware of. Some say it out of habit and mean nothing by it. Jesus said let your yes be yes, and no's be no's. That's why the smilies have been provided--to give a way to set tone of what you mean...without hopefully being offensive. Some don't like them, but many find them useful and can cause humor when things get intense.
RE: Tithing - pastor_chris - 07-24-2009 08:38 PM
Well whenever I say G**Z I dont mean it with any malintent. So please cut me a little slack.
RE: Tithing - Liberated by Faith - 07-24-2009 08:44 PM
In the 8 years I pastored, I only received money from the congregation twice... love offerings. I told them that collections would be used for missionaries as I did not feel I needed any more than my room rent, food and clothing.
But many pastors are not like me. They have homes... not a single room to maintain. Electric, Sanitation, Food, Family needs, these all have to be met. And if a pastor is full time in the ministry, he should be compensated. Yes, God will provide for the needs. But Scripture shows that it is the Church that is to meet the needs of their brethren who are in need. (see Acts 4)
As I pointed out earlier in the thread, pastors are expected to do tasks for the congregation that the Word of God clearly shows are the deacon's responsibility. Deacons were appointed in Acts 6 to wait tables. Yet, if the pastor does not do these tasks, he is viewed as uncaring, unloving, and unattached.
Pastors, when called into that position are called into a hard life... much harder than the pew-warmer or the outsider who belittles the Church that was instituted by God and the authority God has placed therein realize.
RE: Tithing - sheep wrecked - 07-24-2009 08:46 PM
(07-24-2009 08:35 PM)pastor_chris Wrote: Vic,
Why don't you understand that a pastor teacher is a special call. It is different than your call, much different. Trust me I know! Pastors are worthy of their wage. Otherwise the Bible wouldn't tell us to #1 appoint them and #2 to compensate them. You are in error my sister. I am so sorry to have to break that to you. I will pray that God may open your eyes to the truth. Maybe He will!
Chris,
As I pointed out, there are no scriptures to support that a pastor is a "special call", nor is it different than what any of us do. Not one of us is more important than another. The whole "pastor" concept is a moot point in the NT. Only one reference to a pastor. There is no reference to a pastor in the NT that are "worthy of a wage", "compensation", or appointed for such. And please note - they are not mentioned here:
1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Co 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.
1Co 12:15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co 12:16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co 12:17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
1Co 12:18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
1Co 12:19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
1Co 12:20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
1Co 12:21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
1Co 12:22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
1Co 12:23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
1Co 12:24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
1Co 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
1Co 12:26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
1Co 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
RE: Tithing - pastor_chris - 07-24-2009 08:49 PM
Sheep,
You are simply incorrect. There are references to ordination, compensation, and qualifications. You have a preconceived idea of this set in your mind. It sounds like HR teaching. Seriously this is the same thing they say to me on the other board.
At any rate I started a new thread on this subject. I have to go my son is 6 today and I am taking out to dinner with the fam. TTYL
RE: Tithing - Rose of Shushan - 07-24-2009 08:50 PM
Chris, noone is pointing things out to be mean just as brotherly correction.
I do admire that you havent run even when the going has got tough and are genuinely wanting to discuss things out.
But try not to get so defensive, we are not saying anything of the things here just because we feel like picking a fight as you say.
I feel Rick, Sheep and Vic are trying to open your eyes to certain things in love and anything which you may be taking negatively is not being done with any malintent on their parts either.As the scripture says
2Co 6:3 Giving no offense in anything, that the ministry be not blamed:
Going to post the rest of those verses because they seem very pertinent
2Co 6:4 But in all things presenting ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
2Co 6:5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labors, in watchings, in fastings;
2Co 6:6 By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Spirit, by love unfeigned,
2Co 6:7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armor of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
2Co 6:8 By honor and dishonor, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
2Co 6:9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
2Co 6:10 As sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.
RE: Tithing - pastor_chris - 07-24-2009 08:51 PM
Rose,
You are kind but this is not love
"What you have done in your posts Chris, is shown an overblown ego and self importance, and a desire to covet wordly things through tithes for what you feel you deserve being a pastor."
Its called condemnation.