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RE: Can we lose Salvation? - finney - 05-14-2009 12:55 PM
So Paul when he told the Galatians that "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ." didn't know what he was talking about? After all, there's only one, right? Guess what he was talking to them about? It was the gospel of Christ versus its admixture with the law of obediance to reward or disobediance to punishment. Jesus talked about the gospel of the kingdom and Paul talks about the gospel of Christ. Eleven times he uses that term and never once mentions the gospel of the kingdom. Jesus, speaking to Israel (I am not come but to the lost sheep of Israel), either mentions or is said to be preaching the gospel of the kingdom four times. Are there two gospels as in two different means of salvation? No. Are there differences in how and to whom the gospel is preached and applied? This one is yes and no. Is there a difference between the gospel of "repent" and the gospel of "believe?" Yes.
You who need to do to stay saved do whatever it is you need to stay saved. Our place in the kingdom (the physical one) is determined by what we do or don't do in regards to our growth into Christ, but that is not salvation; salvation is a free gift that God does not change His mind about. You have to "rightly divide the word" so you don't get confused twixt the two.
RE: Can we lose Salvation? - sheep wrecked - 05-14-2009 02:36 PM
(05-14-2009 12:55 PM)finney Wrote: So Paul when he told the Galatians that "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ." didn't know what he was talking about? After all, there's only one, right? Guess what he was talking to them about? It was the gospel of Christ versus its admixture with the law of obediance to reward or disobediance to punishment.
Actually, Paul speaks of another gospel in 2 Corinthians as well:
2Co 11:4 For if he that comes preaches another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if you receive another spirit, which you have not received, or another gospel, which you have not accepted, you might well bear with him.
Here, Paul shows us that another Gospel is not the Spirit of Christ, and therefore one is accursed for believing it. This is also mentioned in Galatians:
Gal 1:6 I marvel that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ to another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel to you than that you have received, let him be accursed.
If one is "accursed", one is damned, they have fallen from the true Gospel of Christ - which is what the Galatians had believed at first.
Quote:Jesus talked about the gospel of the kingdom and Paul talks about the gospel of Christ. Eleven times he uses that term and never once mentions the gospel of the kingdom. Jesus, speaking to Israel (I am not come but to the lost sheep of Israel), either mentions or is said to be preaching the gospel of the kingdom four times. Are there two gospels as in two different means of salvation? No. Are there differences in how and to whom the gospel is preached and applied? This one is yes and no. Is there a difference between the gospel of "repent" and the gospel of "believe?" Yes.
There is no difference between the Gospel of the Kingdom and the Gospel of Christ - they are one in the same. Gospel means the Good News of Salvation.
There is no difference in how the Gospel is preached and applied.
Rom 10:9 That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believes to righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made to salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture said, Whoever believes on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich to all that call on him.
Rom 10:13 For whoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Quote:You who need to do to stay saved do whatever it is you need to stay saved. Our place in the kingdom (the physical one) is determined by what we do or don't do in regards to our growth into Christ, but that is not salvation; salvation is a free gift that God does not change His mind about. You have to "rightly divide the word" so you don't get confused twixt the two.There is no "physical" Kingdom of God. We do not, cannot enter Heaven with physical bodies. Upon Christ's return we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye to an incorruptible body - which is spiritual, not mortal.
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 However, that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither does corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
You are right, God does not change His mind about salvation, it's man that does. How many scripts shall I provide for you?
How about this one - Paul is speaking to *believers*:
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Gal 5:15 But if you bite and devour one another, take heed that you be not consumed one of another.
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that you cannot do the things that you would.
Gal 5:18 But if you be led of the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, jealousies, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Contentions, murders, drunkenness, revelings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
RE: Can we lose Salvation? - finney - 05-14-2009 05:09 PM
We can't go to Heaven with a physical body? Jesus did and he's comin' back with the same physical body he left with. I know you now. Goodbye
RE: Can we lose Salvation? - sheep wrecked - 05-14-2009 05:23 PM
(05-14-2009 05:09 PM)finney Wrote: We can't go to Heaven with a physical body? Jesus did and he's comin' back with the same physical body he left with. I know you now. Goodbye
Jesus did not go to Heaven in a physical body. If one's looks at Rev 1, it's clear that His body now is not a physical human body:
Rev 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 1:13 And in the middle of the seven candlesticks one like to the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the breasts with a golden girdle.
Rev 1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
Rev 1:15 And his feet like to fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two edged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shines in his strength.
Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand on me, saying to me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Rev 1:18 I am he that lives, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for ever more, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Also, you need to look again at 1 Cor 15:
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
RE: Can we lose Salvation? - sheep wrecked - 05-15-2009 10:51 AM
More verses showing that Jesus does not have a human body:
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, see, in the middle of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the middle of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he does judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a clothing dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him on white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treads the wine press of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he has on his clothing and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
RE: Can we lose Salvation? - MBT - 08-25-2009 11:00 PM
Original Question:
Can we Lose Salvation?
Thought I would add this to the discussion. It is from Vic's site.
______________________________________________________________
"God's power will save you, keep you saved, and enable you to live a victorious Christian life. "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, Who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it" (1 Corinthians 10:13)."
______________________________________________________________
Some other questions to ponder:
1. If I lose salvation how can I be born again, again?
2. If I don't bear fruit, How much bearing do I need to do to maintain it?
3. If I sin does that disqualify me from the book of life or do I have an advocate to fight for me?
4. What does Romans 7 say?
Romans 7
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
2I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
..and something I like from 1 John
________________________
1 John 2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
_______________________________________
I am scared to death to say I can lose my salvation but I am terrified at the prospect of assuming to much.
_______________________________________
Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
If I am wrong be gentle.
Galatians 6:1
Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
RE: Can we lose Salvation? - sheep wrecked - 08-26-2009 12:18 PM
(08-25-2009 11:00 PM)MBT Wrote: Original Question:
Can we Lose Salvation?
Thought I would add this to the discussion. It is from Vic's site.
______________________________________________________________
"God's power will save you, keep you saved, and enable you to live a victorious Christian life. "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, Who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it" (1 Corinthians 10:13)."
______________________________________________________________
Some other questions to ponder:
1. If I lose salvation how can I be born again, again?
2. If I don't bear fruit, How much bearing do I need to do to maintain it?
3. If I sin does that disqualify me from the book of life or do I have an advocate to fight for me?
4. What does Romans 7 say?
Romans 7
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
2I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
..and something I like from 1 John
________________________
1 John 2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
_______________________________________
I am scared to death to say I can lose my salvation but I am terrified at the prospect of assuming to much.
_______________________________________
Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
If I am wrong be gentle.
Galatians 6:1
Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
Hi MBT!
Losing one's salvation is a purposeful thing where one is essentially rejecting God. It is a failure to love God and have a relationship with him. Those who love Him and serve Him with all their hearts will not be lost. We should not be concerned about losing our salvation, but whether or not we are committed to the Lord and are willing to lay down our lives for Him, take up our cross, and reach out to the lost and hurting in the love and Name of Jesus Christ. If our hearts yearn for the Lord and seek after Him, then worrying about our salvation is a moot point - in my opinion
You had mentioned bearing fruit. It is not based on the "amount", but fruit of the Spirit is all goodness, righteousness, and truth [Eph 9:5] It is not up to us to bear fruit, but for the Holy Spirit to bring it forth in us. When one is submitted to the correction, chastening, renewal and transformation of the Holy Spirit, He will change us into the image of Christ - we are new creatures
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Sinning does not blot one out of the Book of Life, if we confess our sins, they are forgiven. We all sin and fall short of the Glory of God. It is willful disobedience or rebellion for specific sins that are done to gratify the flesh or in direct opposition to God. Again, if one is serving God with all their heart, and desiring to do His will, one is secure in Him.
Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
RE: Can we lose Salvation? - MBT - 08-26-2009 03:42 PM
Thanks Sheep! Great answer.
cya
RE: Can we lose Salvation? - Vic - 08-26-2009 03:43 PM
I think in a sense people are saying the same thing. If we belong to Christ...live it. Then we bear fruit.
If someone doesn't bear fruit, Jesus said they would be cut off from Him. He said that every branch IN HIM that beareth not fruit is taken away.
Joh 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Joh 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
I think this is in direct relation to the parable of the sower and seeds falling on the different ground. Romans 11 also speaks of being cutoff for unbelief but a change of heart belief--and God can graft them in again.
Mat 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
Mat 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. [no belief]
Mat 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. [believed but turned away]
Mat 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. [believed but becomes unfruitful]
Mat 13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
What does Jesus say about those who become unfruitful?
Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
We saw how some disciples--those who followed and believed Christ--turned away from Christ, and followed Him no more:
Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Joh 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Joh 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Luk 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
We have the witness of the Scriptures of those who remained faithful and obedient and those who did not. The ones in the wilderness, and many examples.
To me, as I said in my FAQS about Once save always saved:
Q. What are your views on 'Once Saved, Always Saved'?
A. That too often the wrong questions are being asked, and people argue and debate erroneously. There's an old saying which states that he who asks the questions controls the outcome. Many are asking that question because they or someone they know is living to the flesh. They want assurance that if they say they confess Christ or have in the past, that they will still go to heaven regardless how they behave or what they do.
I prefer to ask, " why, if a person claims to love Jesus Christ, aren't they serving Him, and growing in grace and knowledge of Him? Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments. He also said to pick up our cross daily or we are not worthy to serve Him."
The question that needs to be asked: Why are people sowing to the flesh and worried about whether they can still get into heaven? Rather than obeying the person of Jesus Christ, they are bringing dishonor to Him by making the claim they also love or live for Him or have in the past.
It's all very simple. It's about Christ. About serving Him. Loving Him. Obeying Him. It's not about sowing to the flesh. And in the end, Facing Christ will either be a joyous event or a shameful experience.
Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
Romans 6:6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
The reality of behavior for those who belong to Jesus Christ is answered by Christ Himself and His apostles:
John14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.[/b]
John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
*11 John 15:3-8
*14 Romans 6:19-23
*12 Matthew 10:32,33,38
*15 Romans 8:1-17
*13 1 John 2:28
*16 2 Corinthians 5:16-21
I suppose in the end, the question is...can someone who claims to know Christ deliberately and knowingly enter into the the things of the flesh and have fruit that shows their condition as being not of Christ...can that person actually belong to Christ in the first place?
2 Corinthians 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2 Peter 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Many Scriptures come to mind. While we at times will be tested and put through all manner of trials, some of which we will fail and some we will walk in faith and trust. In the end, God knows who are His. That's what really matters.
We're to be about our Lord's business, not wondering what we can get away with and still 'be saved'.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
RE: Can we lose Salvation? - Izzy - 09-05-2009 03:38 PM
Interesting discussion points!
Let me ask this...if you believe you can't lose your salvation does that mean you are in the pre-destination/Reformed theology group? And if you believe you can, that you're aligning with the free-will folks?
BTW: This is not a "trick" question. I've been finding out in discussions that there are folks more heavily invested in some of these areas than what I formerly realized.