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RE: Attending Church-The Body Of Christ - Vic - 07-27-2009 06:08 PM
(07-27-2009 05:21 PM)pastor_chris Wrote: The church IS the Body of Christ whether you like it or not.
Vic,
An internet community is not a body of believers. There is no accountability, no church leadership, and there is no way to measure whether or not you are producing fruit. The apostles would be horrifed at the thought that people would reject the assemblying together of the saints to correspond on the internet. This is false teaching.
Actually Chris, they would be thrilled that believers encourage one another and are brought together-aka assembling-- because of unity of the Holy Spirit. To talk, and fellowship and share Jesus Christ. And to hold one another accountable if that is an issue--if the person is receptive. Key ingredient to that issue.
We are assembling Chris. Spiritually, emotionally and physically--just not with our bodies. Just not how you do--except wait--you are here with us.
Apparently you want believers to equip-but you don't see them ever being equipped-because once they are equipped---they do get to that point IF they have been equipped properly don't they?--and do the things God calls them to do.
The church is this:
G1577
ἐκκλησία
ekklēsia
Thayer Definition:
1) a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly
1a) an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating
1b) the assembly of the Israelites
1c) any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously
1d) in a Christian sense
1d1) an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
1d2) a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order’s sake
1d3) those who anywhere, in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body
1d4) the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth
1d5) the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564
Citing in TDNT: 3:501, 394
Here's strongs:
G1577
ἐκκλησία
ekklēsia
ek-klay-see'-ah
From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church.
This website and forum are a meeting place Chris. And it doesn't get much more public than this. I have govt people from all over the world checking it out, I have people from all over the world reading, liking or hating it. God has kept it going for over 10 yrs Chris. I have never promoted it since the initial launch of it.
We even have pastors on here dialoguing to edify the brethren.
Paul and Peter were in prison and shared Christ and the believers grew almost before their eyes---and they didn't even get to church. Many just met in homes, caves, and eventually hideaways...yet they remained faithful to Christ. 
As far as fruit Chris, the posters themselves have shown the fruit of growing in Christ and dependence on Him which is what we are all to point to. THe fruit of anyone is only truly known by God. If we go by whatever measure you have for 'fruit'--and we weighed it to what you have presented while on this forum---I think you might be disappointed in your crop. God does the growth, and the increase Chris. Not us. He just wants us obedient to HIM.You have missed something if you do not understand that the internet has made evangelism, witnessing, encouraging and edifying one another possible 24/7. That's better availability than you can give your group of 50-60 on any given week. My stats tell me God is using this medium to reach others for Christ. That's what it's about Chris. The internet has communities all over the world---secular and religious. Take a look at how many ministries you admire and see if they use the internet to connect to others and reach others for Christ. Even the Southern Baptist convention has it's own website--and shares the Gospel to nameless readers, without ever having to be in physical contact with them.
Our light is to be on a hill for all to see, as God sees fit, not according to what someone else thinks it should be. But what HE wants it to be. As was pointed out to you, many fellowship outside this forum and website. You just seemed to miss that information.
Matthew 5:11-16 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. 13. Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. 14. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
RE: Attending Church-The Body Of Christ - Strefanash - 07-28-2009 01:53 AM
I am afraid that I have not regularly attended (unles you count my going to the Local Russian Orthodox Church at Christmas and Easter as being regular :D ) for more than twenty five years.
I have a close and small circle of christian friends i talk to, which is fellowship enough for me.
As for church attendance I think that we tend to hold a ritualized and sacramental view of it - if we are not "going to church" on sunday and even during the week we are disobeying God. I think that we wil tend to have remnants of catholic ritualised thought in us as it is in the cultural background and much of it will creep in as assumption
But, my own uneasiness notwithstanding, I suspect this is a wrong view of church.
Then there is a practical realiity. I would be cut to pieces by them, because for all their talk of love they do not accept people who are different, and I am different, have been all my life. So their religion is worthless, thus it is not fellowship i am forsaking.
THen of course it is for their protection also. I might get nasty if crossed by some religionist, chiefly as I have never allowed myself freedom of thought and f eel obliged to believe anything a christian who I identify as being a christian says to me, hence the anger when they come out with something i either know is wrong or which i strongly disagree with. This is particularly the case when i am face to face with them . . .
as I have enver seen the love of God in any church I decided not to add heartbreak to heartbreak and gave up looking.
But the Holy Spirit is with me and the discussion one on one continues.
Besides, church is so boring, withether it be some dead ritual of an old style church or the pagan ranting of a pentecostal style cult.
You might say there are some churhces out there that are even what I might call commonly decent, but i am not going to hold my breath and look for them.
They have nothing to offer me and until i can repent of my contempt for them I have nothing to offer them.
So i keep away and do something spiritual on a sunday morning, namely continue to pray, something which requires no ritual or group to do.
I know this is jaundiced, but it is the way it is with me
QUESTION:
Is the church the body of christ, or was the image of the body used as a metaphor to illustrate the imperative for harmonious co operation between diverse people within it? Or is this a false dichotomy?
The thing is when i hear the term "body of christ in this sense I pick up that many, many of such actually make the church the focus of their worship and faith, given that we all tend to undercut the sole mediatorship of christ and trust in our pastors or christian "friends" rather than in God himself. I know I have done this
RE: Attending Church-The Body Of Christ - sheep wrecked - 07-28-2009 02:35 PM
(07-28-2009 01:53 AM)Strefanash Wrote: QUESTION:
Is the church the body of christ, or was the image of the body used as a metaphor to illustrate the imperative for harmonious co operation between diverse people within it? Or is this a false dichotomy?
The thing is when i hear the term "body of christ in this sense I pick up that many, many of such actually make the church the focus of their worship and faith, given that we all tend to undercut the sole mediatorship of christ and trust in our pastors or christian "friends" rather than in God himself. I know I have done this
The body of Christ is not a physical entity, although it can be when believers "gather", however that is done. The body of Christ is spiritually united in Christ which means all true believers are brothers and sisters in the Lord with people of all nations, tribes, and tongues
RE: Attending Church-The Body Of Christ - Strefanash - 07-28-2009 04:00 PM
(07-28-2009 02:35 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:(07-28-2009 01:53 AM)Strefanash Wrote: QUESTION:
Is the church the body of christ, or was the image of the body used as a metaphor to illustrate the imperative for harmonious co operation between diverse people within it? Or is this a false dichotomy?
The thing is when i hear the term "body of christ in this sense I pick up that many, many of such actually make the church the focus of their worship and faith, given that we all tend to undercut the sole mediatorship of christ and trust in our pastors or christian "friends" rather than in God himself. I know I have done this
The body of Christ is not a physical entity, although it can be when believers "gather", however that is done. The body of Christ is spiritually united in Christ which means all true believers are brothers and sisters in the Lord with people of all nations, tribes, and tongues
I was not asking of the Body of christ were physical, but whether, in the sense it is made of , if there is any such thing at all.
RE: Attending Church-The Body Of Christ - Vic - 07-29-2009 11:44 AM
(07-28-2009 04:00 PM)Strefanash Wrote:(07-28-2009 02:35 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:(07-28-2009 01:53 AM)Strefanash Wrote: QUESTION:
Is the church the body of christ, or was the image of the body used as a metaphor to illustrate the imperative for harmonious co operation between diverse people within it? Or is this a false dichotomy?
The thing is when i hear the term "body of christ in this sense I pick up that many, many of such actually make the church the focus of their worship and faith, given that we all tend to undercut the sole mediatorship of christ and trust in our pastors or christian "friends" rather than in God himself. I know I have done this
The body of Christ is not a physical entity, although it can be when believers "gather", however that is done. The body of Christ is spiritually united in Christ which means all true believers are brothers and sisters in the Lord with people of all nations, tribes, and tongues
I was not asking of the Body of christ were physical, but whether, in the sense it is made of , if there is any such thing at all.
I am not sure what you are meaning Stref. Paul wrote that Jesus is the Head of the body. If you are thinking in terms is it just metaphor or analogy? or? These are some of the Scriptures which reference the concept. I believe it is descriptive of our relationship to one another and to Christ. The ekklesia or church is concerning all those who are of Christ, and it shows that relationship as being as bound together and intricate as a physical body and, with Him being the head. Without the Head (Christ), the Body doesn't work...or exist. I don't know if that says it any better or not.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 2:19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
RE: Attending Church-The Body Of Christ - sheep wrecked - 01-29-2010 05:16 PM
(01-29-2010 09:35 AM)Scotchman Wrote: We have been mistaught.
This seems to be a mantra these days. The church may have some issues, but lumping it all as a bad experience or a "cult" is just over the top. It sounds so Michael Rood
Quote:Just because we stopped attending the local cult Kirk!
The word "kirk" is not a cult word. It's etymology actually goes back to the word "Kurios" in the Greek which means Lord. In other words, the word church/kirk simply indicates "the Lords".
Quote: People forget that Church Buildings did not exist for the Early Believers. They were an adaptation borrowed from the temples of tthe pagans.
God also "adapted" from the pagans when He gave the instructions for the Temple. I am beginning to think that "pagan" is your favorite word
Let me ask you a question [which you consistently refuse to answer]: If you worship the Lord in your home, you are in a pagan building - do you have a problem with that?
Quote:Trust me, I don't think we are hear because we hate church.
You have stated that churches are a cult. Do you not hate cults?
Quote:I think this has happened because churches have become laodicea and we are forced otu or can not stand listing to heresy from the pulpits while the true beleivers of God's Word are the ones outcast and shunned,
If a church today is Laodicean - which is pretty much a charismatic concept - then it was a believing church that is lukewarm. So you are bit inconsistent with your theories. If the church is a cult, it cannot be Laodicean.
Quote:My family has revisited bad churches hoping that they changed with new leadership. My son witnessed to a youth group once that obviously contained unsaved kids who needed to hear the Gospel. RESULT: the pastor was upset and threatened to call the cops! REASON: Because we felt that some of these kids might not be saved even though there was absolutely NO evidence that they might even MAYE be. The kids WANTED my son to tell them and instead the pastor confiscated his handouts and ended it all.
Perhaps there was an issue with the attitude or presentation. Speaking the truth in love can be difficult. In a church setting, usually protocol is to make sure that what you present is acceptable and in order. I am not saying that your son instigated anything, but sometimes zeal can be seen as an interruption of the order that was set down.
Quote:There is no blessing or commandment to listen to heretics.
In fact, God command such to be Stoned under the Law.
I know I am wasting my breath, but here goes. Where is this in scripture? Heretics are a NT concept having to do with presenting false theology.
Quote:It is also easier to lie about one's beliefs in a physical church, but with letters, you words are recorded for a long time.
It's just as easy to lie in writing as it is in speaking, unless one is not human
RE: Attending Church-The Body Of Christ - sheep wrecked - 01-29-2010 07:37 PM
(01-29-2010 06:16 PM)Scotchman Wrote:Quote:he word "kirk" is not a cult word. It's etymology actually goes back to the word "Kurios" in the Greek which means Lord. In other words, the word church/kirk simply indicates "the Lords".
Actually no, Here it is.
KIRK
Etymology: Middle English (northern dial.), from Old Norse kirkja, from Old English cirice
It means Circle and refered to the druid religious temples similar to those like Stonehenge.
Have a blessed Weekend.
You didn't go back far enough - from a Greek forum with contributions from chairs of departments internationally, and actual peer reviewed scholars:
church, from
Middle English chirche,
from Anglo Saxon, circe,
from Greek kyriakon the Lord's house,
from kyriakos concerning a master or lord,
from kyrios master, lord,
from kyros power, authority;
akin to Sanskrit sura mighty, bold,
Old Irish caur, cur, hero,
confir Kirk.
http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-greek/2006-January/037386.html
The myth is that it refers to the Druids and stonehedge. Again, it a subversive threat against the body of Christ.
RE: Attending Church-The Body Of Christ - YYZ Skinhead - 01-29-2010 10:22 PM
(01-29-2010 07:37 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: You didn't go back far enough - from a Greek forum with contributions from chairs of departments internationally, and actual peer reviewed scholars:
church, from
Middle English chirche,
from Anglo Saxon, circe,
from Greek kyriakon the Lord's house,
from kyriakos concerning a master or lord,
from kyrios master, lord,
from kyros power, authority;
akin to Sanskrit sura mighty, bold,
Old Irish caur, cur, hero,
confir Kirk.
http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-greek/2006-January/037386.html
Kirk is the Scottish Gaelic word for church and has the same etymology. The Church of Scotland is called "The Kirk". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirk
RE: Attending Church-The Body Of Christ - Scotchman - 01-29-2010 10:41 PM
(01-29-2010 07:37 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: The myth is that it refers to the Druids and stonehenge. Again, it a subversive threat against the body of Christ.
Your Comment about Subversion is again accusational and without any backing at all.
But I WILL concede the etymology. That was interesting. I had not gone back further Thank you.
But you really need to stop attacking. And as I PMd you yesterday. You were the first one I noticed who was bundling up my posts into your replies and bulking up the discussion needlessly. That is not profitable.
I concede the etymology and the mistake was mine in straying from the sound Scriptural footing I was on.
My Scriptural points still Stand.
Thank you.
RE: Attending Church-The Body Of Christ - sheep wrecked - 01-29-2010 11:43 PM
(01-29-2010 10:41 PM)Scotchman Wrote: Your Comment about Subversion is again accusational and without any backing at all.
But you really need to stop attacking. And as I PMd you yesterday. You were the first one I noticed who was bundling up my posts into your replies and bulking up the discussion needlessly. That is not profitable.
Your PM to me was about including all of the text in the response. Sometimes I include it all, sometimes I delete parts out. It depends on necessity. It is necessary to quote the whole thing at times and definitely the mods here have no problem with that at all. Some people prefer that their whole post is quoted so they are not taken out of context. It's not a big deal, really. We aim to please.
The subversive word was not an attack against you, but against those who came up with the myth of druids and stonehedge being the pagan origins of the word church. It is simply untrue and an attack against the church aka the body of Christ.