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General questions for former Messianics - SheitlQueen - 06-29-2009 11:23 PM
For those in this thread that were originally attracted to the Messianic movement, and then left:
if you don't mind me asking, what attracted you to it in the first place, and why did you decide
it is a false movement?
[mod note: I added these questions from SheitlQueen from the another thread
]Did you indeed really feel like you were closer to Jesus
and 1st century Christianity by doing so? Or was it the
attraction of the "Jewish" practices they do? I've always
felt it was the latter myself.
RE: Greetings from Mississippi! - Emjesown - 06-30-2009 10:42 AM
(06-29-2009 11:23 PM)SheitlQueen Wrote: For those in this thread that were originally attracted to the Messianic movement, and then left:
if you don't mind me asking, what attracted you to it in the first place, and why did you decide
it is a false movement?
In my adventure called believe, i had "something"with israel, and i liked the music and i danced Israeli folklore.
These things made me say yes to messianic movement, speccially since i discovered that most churches and congregations followed the rcc in a way.
I left the rcc when i was 18.
I left the messianic movement in oct 2008, but was already doubting alot since 1 year before that.
I don t think the messianic movement as a whole is false.
Jews who accept Yeshua, are messianic believers....they make THE messianic movement.
Christians who join this mov. call themselves also messianic.
And since accepters op Messiah, are called messianic, i don t have a problem with that.
The problems is in the fact that they have wierd idea's and teachings.
Torah Torah.....back to Moses camp,,,,,live like the Israelites live etc.
Back then i believed it all and embraced it all, loved it.
But same way i would leave evangelicals because of false teachings, i left the messianics because of fals teachings.
I am grathfull tho for all the knowledge on the OT i learned.
I still love hebraic coloured music....i still listen to some teachings....
when i became messianic , christians left me
When i left the messianics, they ignore me
Now i have some christians friends on the internet, and 2 messianic believers as friends.
From most of them i get alot of resistence....openly ridiculed even.
Christians still look at me strangely, they think i don t know what i believe now.
So its lonely.
What i still have after all this?
I am a re-born child of the most high,
i have Jesus as Saviour,
God as Father,
the hope for a new earth
the assurence to belong to God's family.
Still looking for answers , stil have questions.
Ans still bothered by the brainwash in the messianic movement.
Did 'n t want to make this such along post, sorry
EMJE
RE: Greetings from Mississippi! - SheitlQueen - 06-30-2009 01:52 PM
(06-30-2009 10:42 AM)Emjesown Wrote: In my adventure called believe, i had "something"with israel, and i liked the music and i danced Israeli folklore.So was it some of the cultural things, rather than ideology, that
These things made me say yes to messianic movement
first attracted you to the movement?
Quote: but was already doubting a lot since 1 year before thatWhat sorts of doubts did you have?
Quote:The problems is in the fact that they have wierd idea's and teachingsSuch as?
Quote:Torah Torah.....back to Moses camp,,,,,live like the Israelites live etc.Can you clarify?
Quote: i left the messianics because of fals teachings.False teachings such as?
Quote:I still love hebraic coloured music....i still listen to some teachings....It does seem quite strange that the two groups do not
when i became messianic , christians left me
When i left the messianics, they ignore me
seem to "get along".
Quote:Did 'n t want to make this such along post, sorry
Oh, it is not too long at all. Thank you very much for your response.
RE: Greetings from Mississippi! - Emjesown - 06-30-2009 02:51 PM
(06-30-2009 01:52 PM)SheitlQueen Wrote:(06-30-2009 10:42 AM)Emjesown Wrote: In my adventure called believe, i had "something"with israel, and i liked the music and i danced Israeli folklore.So was it some of the cultural things, rather than ideology, that
These things made me say yes to messianic movement
first attracted you to the movement?
It was a start, but people in the messianic movement convinced me that we had to go back, since i already felt the need to skip reformation and rcc, that made sence to me.
I did not realise back then, that they would bring me back to Moses.
Quote: but was already doubting a lot since 1 year before thatWhat sorts of doubts did you have?
Quote:[color]I dunno, a gut feeling, after warth i think God warnt me, put questions in my head, sort off.[/color]Such as?
The problems is in the fact that they have wierd idea's and teachings
Quote:Second exodus, the idea that we all have to come to one place and from theyre God would bring us into the wilderness and protect and feed us.Can you clarify?
Third temple and re-installing animal sacrefices.
James(Jesus brother) was the heir to the davidic kingdom.
He should be the follow up from Jesus.
Torah Torah.....back to Moses camp,,,,,live like the Israelites live etc.
Every service, every study lead to that direction, live like an Israelite.
Feasts, food, cloth,build a sukka and live in it 8 days,some even slaughtered a lam with pesach in theyr own garden.
Quote: i left the messianics because of fals teachings.False teachings such as?
Christians can t be saved...hebrew lessons where they translated to support theyre idea's of tanack.
Quote:I still love hebraic coloured music....i still listen to some teachings....It does seem quite strange that the two groups do not
when i became messianic , christians left me
When i left the messianics, they ignore me
seem to "get along".
Not so strange since one group promotes the law and live by it and the other group promotes grace meaning no more laws.
Quote:Did 'n t want to make this such along post, sorry
Oh, it is not too long at all. Thank you very much for your response.
oh one more thing
After struggling a year, with doubts and all, i went on my knees and asked God to help me.
What is the truth?
And i asked:
God taken away everything that was not yours, what i learned.
Make me forget all the bad stuff and help me to understand the good stuff.
And He did,,,,so honestly i forgot alot.
I really had to think hard to answer you .
EMJE
RE: General questions for former Messianics - Strefanash - 06-30-2009 05:19 PM
I would go back, back before the Reformation, which i regard as the most obscene fist fight over doctrine in history; back before the Catholic Church, which in its errror provoked the fist fight which the Protestants were only too wiling to join, thus showing the bankruptcy of both sides who were willing to mass murder and persecute in the name of the Love of God.
But I would not go back to Moses. I would go back to the faith of Abraham, ie a personal relationship with Hashem, one man and his God.
After all Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him righteousness. The promise of the New Covenant is that the Holy Spirit will lead me to such repentance as I can believe God also
As I may have already said here if the Hebrew Rootists go back to Moses and not Abraham and his faith they have forsaken their Hebrew Roots not reconected to them
QUOTE: Not so strange since one group promotes the law and live by it and the other group promotes grace meaning no more laws.
Stref: I hold that both sides here are wrong. those that promote the law do not live by for it is impossible, as St Paul spelt out clearly in Romans ansd Galatians; and those who promote grace usually only promote lawlessness, for they dont know what grace is. the law is not abolished but grace is not a principle, it is a name for personal intervention by God the Spirit Himself.
the trouble is that those who react against "cheap grace" usually end up being legalists.
If we try to keep the Law we will perish, if we do not try to keep the Law we wil perish. So the question is crucial: which Spirit, if any, are we in a personal relationship with
RE: General questions for former Messianics - sheep wrecked - 07-02-2009 06:17 PM
(06-29-2009 11:23 PM)SheitlQueen Wrote: For those in this thread that were originally attracted to the Messianic movement, and then left:
if you don't mind me asking, what attracted you to it in the first place
I was attracted to the Hebraic understanding. I thot that if I found Jewish converts to Jesus Christ, they could help me understand the Bible better. Unfortunately, I never did meet a Jewish believer, but I sure ran into a whole lot of wanna bees
Quote:and why did you decide
it is a false movement?
I got shown the error of taking practices from another religion and trying to adapt it to a "new" one. The rejection of Christianity is so blatantly ugly and perverse, not to mention the complete disrespect for the Jews.
I discovered that everything that is taught in Messy is based on lies, stolen "goods", horrible behavior, and completely rejects the NT. Once I was faced with the reality of what I was doing, I started dumping [literally] all the stuff I had, realizing that it was all fake.
The great thing is that God had mercy on me and has allowed me to be able to expose the Messy movement. And that has been a real joy, in spite of the constant mud slinging aimed in my direction by diehard Messianics
Quote:Did you indeed really feel like you were closer to Jesus
and 1st century Christianity by doing so?
At the time I felt like it would make me more spiritual, but after coming out I realized that it really had nothing to do with Jesus. Life in Christ is very simple. Sometimes we learn the hard way. I sure did
Quote:Or was it the
attraction of the "Jewish" practices they do?
That became the carrot for me. In order to totally understand Hebraically, one has to embrace the Jewishness. They are one and the same. So the Jewish practices, which I was told were constant from Mt Sinai, became a reality for my life.
There were many challenges being a gentile diving into the Jewish world. It became frustrating for me because I could not access what was necessary to live a correct halacha. For awhile, in the height of my kashrut life style, I ended up getting kosher meat from a Chasidic Rabbi in town. I would go to his synagogue where he had meat shipped in from Iowa that was Rabbinically butchered. One time he asked me why, as a gentile, I would take on the burden of Torah. I looked at him and smiled, saying that I did it because I loved Ha Shem. He just shook his head at me. I will never forget that. I should have listened to him
RE: General questions for former Messianics - Strefanash - 07-02-2009 07:21 PM
I was never a member of the HR movement, but my legalism is in part a conviction that christianity is a Jewish religion, that we are obliged to keep the Law as I thought the Jews were. I felt that to belive in grace was to repudiate the Law, and that as God gave the Law of Moses so it was binding on us.
Hence I may have been a sucker for HR if I had heard of it or it had been around 30 years ago when i was converted.
As to why it is false movement? I reject it because legalism is false. It is an abuse of Law not use.
So to me my rejection of HR is largely my rejection of church denominations all over: legalism and the counterfeit gospel that it is
RE: General questions for former Messianics - karebear - 08-09-2009 06:18 PM
I am new here and am pretty sure that I've already been asked to leave, but I'm open minded to learn and so have continued reading posts.
I am very sorry that so many have had such bad experiences with HR. I am involved in a HR ministry that is not extreme as is being described.
I think that what i have been led to is balanced and does not take on legalism of any kind. Observing sabbath and feast days are a personal choice. I personally believe in a saturday sabbath after God dealt with me on that subject and then made it possible for me to keep it when at first it seemed impossible (because of my career), but as far as the feast days I understand them to be educational and prophetic and I can just learn about them or I can participate if I want to. It is not something that I am being told to do. I understand that anything we do has to be from a willing heart and a desire to love The Lord or it is a waste of time, cause it will not please God. I will not/cannot do something just because I am told to do it, It has to be because i believe God wants me to do it and because i want to give that from my heart.
Hearing stories of animal sacrifice is just plain scary and if i ever saw such a thing i would instantly know that i was in the wrong church! Nothing about the HR teaching i have recieved is weird or creepy or gives a feeling of bondage.
I love to share my newfound knowlege with my friends but i dont tell them they have to do it. I was and am a beleiver and i know God loved me a blessed me all my life before HR and he will keep me.
We always with any teaching have to discern what is true and throw out the rest, cause there is no earthly teacher who has it all correct, and we should not look to men because they always will fail.
RE: General questions for former Messianics - sheep wrecked - 08-09-2009 06:36 PM
(08-09-2009 06:18 PM)karebear Wrote: I am new here and am pretty sure that I've already been asked to leave, but I'm open minded to learn and so have continued reading posts.
I am very sorry that so many have had such bad experiences with HR. I am involved in a HR ministry that is not extreme as is being described.
I think that what i have been led to is balanced and does not take on legalism of any kind. Observing sabbath and feast days are a personal choice. I personally believe in a saturday sabbath after God dealt with me on that subject and then made it possible for me to keep it when at first it seemed impossible (because of my career), but as far as the feast days I understand them to be educational and prophetic and I can just learn about them or I can participate if I want to. It is not something that I am being told to do. I understand that anything we do has to be from a willing heart and a desire to love The Lord or it is a waste of time, cause it will not please God. I will not/cannot do something just because I am told to do it, It has to be because i believe God wants me to do it and because i want to give that from my heart.
Hearing stories of animal sacrifice is just plain scary and if i ever saw such a thing i would instantly know that i was in the wrong church! Nothing about the HR teaching i have recieved is weird or creepy or gives a feeling of bondage.
I love to share my newfound knowlege with my friends but i dont tell them they have to do it. I was and am a beleiver and i know God loved me a blessed me all my life before HR and he will keep me.
We always with any teaching have to discern what is true and throw out the rest, cause there is no earthly teacher who has it all correct, and we should not look to men because they always will fail.
Hi Karebear,
I think that your new-found "knowledge" is a bit of a "high" for you, as it was for me once. That should probably be your red flag that all is not as "kosher" as it appears.
Discernment is not "keeping what is true and throwing out the rest". It is actually recognizing the evil and accepting that it taints whatever good there is, making it useless. As Paul wrote "a little leaven works its way through the whole loaf".
Rather than answer all of your points, which are recycled over and over again on every Messianic website and ministry out there, including El Shaddai - let me show why the HR movement is wrong right out of the gate.
The Messianic Hebrew Roots movement denies the New Covenant. The old and new covenants are distinct and different from each other. There are some similarities, but a simple reading of the text - both old and new - it is clearly obvious they are completely different based on different promises [the new is better].
On the one hand, the old covenant or Torah is based on the Levitical sacrificial system whereby atonement was gained by the shed blood of animals. On the other hand, the new covenant was bought, redeemed, blood shed through Jesus Christ for all sin, once and for all.
Therein lies the problem with HR. As much as you would like it to be "your new-found knowledge", you have actually bought back into a system that was broken and replaced. In other words, all that you have been taught denies Jesus Christ. That is the bottom line.
After spending the last 8 1/2 years with the HR movement and part of that time within the ranks of the "faithful and practicing", I assure you that what you are taught is incorrect, no matter how sincere or how nice or how "different" you think it is. A horse of another color is still a horse.
It is also obvious that you would like to "teach" us the truth about HR, after only being the movement for, what did you say, one month?
RE: General questions for former Messianics - Vic - 08-09-2009 06:39 PM
(08-09-2009 06:18 PM)karebear Wrote: I am new here and am pretty sure that I've already been asked to leave, but I'm open minded to learn and so have continued reading posts.
That's really enough of that type of talk karebear. If you were going to be banned you would be given fair warning. You have been given unofficial warning so far, ie. regarding your first 3 posts. It's not adding up on your warning info. Yet.
