Is Easter Pagan? - Printable Version
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RE: Is Easter Pagan? - sari83 - 04-21-2011 12:49 PM
(04-21-2011 12:00 AM)Vic Wrote: One more thought. Sarah you said you use your logic and your analytical mind to determine what's right--which actually means it's not about what the Holy Spirit teaches or provides. However, analyse this.
I respect the fact that this is your site, Vic. I don't want to bbe argumentative, but you asked me to analyze this statment, and so I will.
I see where you were going with this analogy. Except, I didn't say eggs and paint were evil. Eggs are a natural occurrance. Dyes which were orginally from fruits and vegetables are also natural occurring substances. Painted eggs are not a natural occurance, though. Pagans were inspired to color eggs as part of their religious practices. Who inspired them?
Sunrises and sunsets are also a beautiful natural occurance. Am I guilty for watching them, absolutely not. However, for example, if it was a pagan practice to spin three times in a circle at dusk in honor of the God Set, (silly analogy, but superstition is silly, isn't it?) Then somewhere down the line I decide I want copy these precise motions, yes that would be pagan. The holy spirit would not inspire someone to repeat practices that were invented from the inspiration of worshipping a false god.
RE: Is Easter Pagan? - Vic - 04-21-2011 07:08 PM
Quote:Eggs are a natural occurrance. Dyes which were orginally from fruits and vegetables are also natural occurring substances....I decide I want copy these precise motions, yes that would be pagan. The holy spirit would not inspire someone to repeat practices that were invented from the inspiration of worshipping a false god.
Sarah putting two natural things together is not pagan. Putting dye on something is not pagan. God had Israel dye things. Look it up. If I dye cotton, which is not naturally anything but white, I am not entering into a pagan practice am I? If dye is added to a food, is it a pagan practice? If you boil an egg with onion skins and it turns color---is that a pagan practice?
If you face east and watch a sunrise and enjoy it, you are participating in a pagan practice based on your logic.
If you pray facing east, you are participating in a pagan practice. Doesn't matter the intent of who you pray to, it's that action of facing east and prayer, and just as you said, it's the pagan ritual...
Eggs have to be evil Sarah, according to your statements. Because people of the world aren't sacrificing to pagan gods with eggs or bunnies in stores or other places that have them, and neither are Christians. So it has to be the eggs, which pagans even today view in a religious manner and the paint that must also be evil and pagan. Because it cannot simply be the mindset behind the use of something of God's creation can it? And it cannot be the mindset behind things that God allowed to be invented and used, and which also Israel used, such as dye.
Paint originally came from iron oxide. It was used for cave paintings. The egyptians developed colors for paint, which for them carried a religious significance and they believed that it had magical and healing properties and so then they painted their walls of their homes. So if you use color, in your clothes, in your furniture, paint your walls, we can only assume, now that you know this information, you are thinking what they thought. Must be magic. Therefore, to avoid being viewed as a pagan or worshipping false gods, you need to dismantle your life and go with black or white. But wait, goth's and satanists use black. But cults like druids wear white, and those are all paint colors anyway....might need to go back to skins like God made Adam and Eve, but....might be a problem there because all animals are used somewhere for pagan worship. I sense a quandry for you.
Clement of Alexandria thought Christians should not dye any clothes from their natural fibre, because the heathen dyed their clothes bright colors for their festivals to Bacchus and such. Got anything in your wardrobe that's dyed and not simply in it's natural state?
Btw you missed answering these questions, and since this appears to be your area of expertise, I would really appreciate if you could provide the data so I could pursue research on these occurences. I had asked you this:
DO you know any Christians worshipping a bunny or egg or who are involved in using them to worship or give sacrifice to a false god? How about To sacrifice a bunny to God? IN all my years I have never seen a bunny in a church, being worshipped, sacrificed or otherwise.
RE: Is Easter Pagan? - Mary - 04-21-2011 07:15 PM
I have just seen, with my son, on Australian kids TV "news" programme an explanation of the Easter holiday. It was very simple, and did bring up the 'pagan' spring celebration, but also focussed on the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.YAY! lots of little kids who never hear that message just did!
RE: Is Easter Pagan? - Vic - 04-21-2011 07:49 PM
I found this most interesting statement concerning Passover and the first passover lamb. From a Jewish rabbi in Israel, talking about how the sages teach that the lamb was worshipped by the Egyptians. Yet the Jews were commanded to take a lamb on the 10th day and keep it another 4 days, with the Egyptians being well aware that the Jews intended to sacrifice their deity on the 14th day. "By sacrificing the lamb, the Jews denied the idol worship of the Egyptians and all peoples."
How about that. They took something that was viewed as a deity but was a false god and idol and sacrificed it to Almighty God, showing that there were no other gods and that they weren't going to be part of idol worship.
So, since the whole shpiel about pagans and eggs and bunnies and their empty superstitions is what Christians are accused of being involved in, it is about the same issue....Even if someone saw the practice of a pagan making a colored egg to/for a non-existant god at some point, by painting an egg to represent the Gospel of Jesus Christ, showing there are no other gods and Christians won't accept following idols....hey. Great analogy and example of it being about God for those who love God.
RE: Is Easter Pagan? - sari83 - 04-21-2011 11:35 PM
(04-21-2011 07:08 PM)Vic Wrote: Sarah putting two natural things together is not pagan. Putting dye on something is not pagan. God had Israel dye things. Look it up. If I dye cotton, which is not naturally anything but white, I am not entering into a pagan practice am I? If dye is added to a food, is it a pagan practice? If you boil an egg with onion skins and it turns color---is that a pagan practice?
Sacrificing.... of course not.
Worshipping something as an idol is showing reverance, time, love, affection to the object/thing. I would dare say the Easter Bunny becomes a pretty big focus for some during Easter. It's even given the supernatural power of being able to visit every home on the Eve on Easter. People are free to worship Christ in spirit and truth. Being compelled every year to paint eggs and portray stories of mythological creatures as reality... I don't know...Can we find deep spiritual meanings in these practices?
Well, I was thinking earlier before I read your reply, if you don't see any harm in these things, who am I to try to convince your otherwise.
RE: Is Easter Pagan? - Vic - 04-22-2011 12:54 AM
(04-21-2011 11:35 PM)sari83 Wrote:(04-21-2011 07:08 PM)Vic Wrote: Sarah putting two natural things together is not pagan. Putting dye on something is not pagan. God had Israel dye things. Look it up. If I dye cotton, which is not naturally anything but white, I am not entering into a pagan practice am I? If dye is added to a food, is it a pagan practice? If you boil an egg with onion skins and it turns color---is that a pagan practice?
It would be great if you answered those first questions.
Sarah, absolutely NO ONE is forced or compelled to paint eggs or portray stories of mythological creatures as reality. What those of the world determine is their choice. What customs are observed in the world are their choice. There are no other gods, but God. And to say otherwise is to deny the Scriptures and Truth.
Hab 2:18 What profiteth the graven image that the maker thereof hath graven it; the molten image, and a teacher of lies, that the maker of his work trusteth therein, to make dumb idols?
Hab 2:19 Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, Arise, it shall teach! Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in the midst of it.
Hab 2:20 But the LORD is in his holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him.
Psa 115:1 Not unto us, O LORD, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, and for thy truth's sake.
Psa 115:2 Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their God?
Psa 115:3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
Psa 115:4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.
Psa 115:5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:
Psa 115:6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:
Psa 115:7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.
Psa 115:8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.
Psa 135:18 They that make them are like unto them: so is every one that trusteth in them.
Would you suggest Christians boycott all places in the world that show an image of a cartoon bunny or easter eggs, let alone sell bunnies or chicks or colored eggs at easter? How about if they decide they just won't purchase those items. Many don't. It's a choice. A total free choice.
You have totally missed everything I have said. I have no interest in those things. Did you catch that. I have no interest in them. Don't even buy chocolate eggs or bunnies. Don't color eggs. But. I will not allow the false accusation aimed at Christians that do find a freedom to eat a chocolate or color eggs in a way that proclaims Jesus Christ or whatever uses they have for those things; to be accused of worshipping or participating in a pagan practice related to the worship of a non existent god. Christians worship God. THey follow Jesus Christ and we are to have the mind of Christ--about all things. If Christians want to make a celebration alongside the most incredible event in history, the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and the gift of salvation for all mankind, and make it also a time for family and children to learn these things through simple games or activities, that is something believers have the freedom to do. It's totally a God given choice because Christians know, just as Paul said, there are no idols aka gods to give sacrifice to.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
You have spent most of the time in this discussion focusing on paganism, not Christ. You have spent all this time accusing Christians of being pagan. Paganism abounds in the world, all around believers, Sarah. Probably it was never so real as to those who lived during the time of Christ and after, with the Romans and Greeks and their paganism. But Christians proclaimed and pointed to Christ in all they did. Even with painted eggs.
You need to understand, it's not what the world does around us, or what tools of the world we are able to use to share Christ, it's what Christ is to us, that He is the purpose, focus and reason for all that we do.
Col 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
IF someone said that the easter bunny was Christ---then you would have me taking that blasphemy down. NO different than those claiming the images of the zodiac are Christ. It's totally false and needs to be addressed as such.
1Co 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
1Co 8:7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
You might wish to read my article http://www.seekgod.ca/idols.htm
RE: Is Easter Pagan? - Rose of Shushan - 04-22-2011 09:22 AM
Quote:I would dare say the Easter Bunny becomes a pretty big focus for some during Easter. It's even given the supernatural power of being able to visit every home on the Eve on Easter.
Please LOL..Sari now I think you're either pulling our legs or have the bunny confused with a santa claus who supposedly visits the home of kids down a chimney or something.
RE: Is Easter Pagan? - Rose of Shushan - 04-22-2011 09:44 AM
Quote:Worshipping something as an idol is showing reverance, time, love, affection to the object/thing.So when I give time to look after my son with immense love and affection am I worshipping him? Or when I spend a lot of time and care crocheting a beautiful garment and then admiring it I am worshipping it? Your definition of worship sounds a bit off.
There are many cultures that use eggs in their celebrationss and worship of God as Vic so well explained in some of her posts and its logical that one might use things that God created ie eggs and dyes to make things.
I am reminded of the custom amongst some sephardi to decorate eggs at Passover(and shabbat or for special occasions).The process is indistinguishable from the way some people decorate their easter eggs.If you don't believe me check out this link they look very pretty
There have also been customs of decorating eggs for Purim.I wil paste from the following link http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/241/Q3/
where a reader enquires about the origins of a custom of paining eggs on Lag B'omer and is worried it may be pagan.The reply went as follows
I asked your question to Rabbi Eliezar Demari of Jerusalem. (His parents came to Israel from Yemen in 1949.) Rabbi Demari said that in Yemen, the Jews painted eggs in honor of Purim. They sent these eggs to friends as mishloach manot gifts and ate them at the festive Purim meal.
The Jewish community in Yemen was isolated for centuries, and they can trace many of their customs back to the time of the First Temple, so it's clear that they didn't adopt this practice from any other culture.
Rabbi Demari also noted that it's conceivable that egg-painting was a custom among European Jews, and that they stopped doing so when it was adopted by other religions.
We see the same concept regarding a stone altar: Although Abraham, Isaac and Jacob made stone altars, the Torah later forbade making them because the pagans had begun making stone altars for idol worship. Thus, we see that a "kosher" custom gets spoiled when it becomes a pagan custom.
Isn't that interesting? So now we have a chicken and egg(pun intended ) situation.
Could it be that christians borrowed some of the eggy customs from jews?
It may be or it may not..not everyone uses eggs in the same way and they do give a lot of leeway in what can be done with them.Its just natural that people are going to use them in part of their respective celebrations.
RE: Is Easter Pagan? - Vic - 04-22-2011 04:05 PM
(04-22-2011 09:44 AM)Rose of Shushan Wrote:Quote:Worshipping something as an idol is showing reverance, time, love, affection to the object/thing.So when I give time to look after my son with immense love and affection am I worshipping him? Or when I spend a lot of time and care crocheting a beautiful garment and then admiring it I am worshipping it? Your definition of worship sounds a bit off.
Great information! It would not be a stretch at all to think that Christians got the eggy custom from their Jewish heritage since many were Jews, and merely used it as a way to share the Truth of Jesus who was the awaited Messiah. I was noticing that some say that the eggs are used in many Jewish celebrations and that the colored eggs can represent the rainbow and God's promise to Noah to not destroy the world by flood again.(they use all the colors of the rainbow to dye them and give a basket of them as gifts to friends).
I was thinking one of the things that has always stayed with me about services on Good Friday and then Easter Sunday, is the holiness and seriousness of Friday, including in the hymns that are sung. The total awareness of the cross and what took place. And then how on Sunday the absolute joy in the words of the resurrection songs and the understanding of who Christ is and what He did. I think as Christians, it is with great wonder and thankfulness that we have been allowed that understanding, to not only grasp the sacrifice of Jesus dying on the cross, but the amazing Truth in the words, He IS Risen! Praise God!
Mat 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
Mat 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
Mat 28:7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.
Mat 28:8 And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
Mat 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.
Mat 28:10 Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me.
Joh 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
Joh 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
RE: Is Easter Pagan? - Vic - 04-22-2011 04:52 PM
To clarify what worshipping something including God means and, is defined as in the Scriptures:
Exo 34:14 For thou shalt worship H7812 no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
The Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon > http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=07812
Strong's Number: 7812 hx#
Original Word Word Origin
hx# a primitive root
Parts of Speech
1)to bow down
a)(Qal) to bow down
b)(Hiphil) to depress (fig)
1.to bow down, prostrate oneself 1c
d)before superior in homage 1c
e)before God in worship 1c
f)before false gods 1c
KJV (172) - bow, 31; bow down, 18; crouch, 1; fall down, 3; misc, 3; obeisance, 9; reverence, 5; stoop, 1; themselves, 2; worship, 99;
The Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon is Brown, Driver, Briggs, Gesenius Lexicon; this is keyed to the "Theological Word Book of the Old Testament." These files are considered public domain.
1) to bow down
1a) (Qal) to bow down
1b) (Hiphil) to depress (figuratively)
1c1) to bow down, prostrate oneself
1c1a) before superior in homage
1c1b) before God in worship
1c1c) before false gods
1c1d) before angel
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2360
Strong's > worship
A primitive root; to depress, that is, prostrate (especially reflexively in homage to royalty or God): - bow (self) down, crouch, fall down (flat), humbly beseech, do (make) obeisance, do reverence, make to stoop, worship.
Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship G4352 the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Strong's >worship G4352
From G4314 and probably a derivative of G2965 (meaning to kiss, like a dog licking his master’s hand); to fawn or crouch to, that is, (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore): - worship.
Psa 89:7 God is greatly to be feared H6206 in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence H3372 of all them that are about him.
1) to fear, revere, be afraid
1a1) to fear, be afraid
1a2) to stand in awe of, be awed
1a3) to fear, reverence, honour, respect
1b1) to be fearful, be dreadful, be feared
1b2) to cause astonishment and awe, be held in awe
1b3) to inspire reverence or godly fear or awe
1c) (Piel) to make afraid, terrify
2) (TWOT) to shoot, pour
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number: 907, 908
1) to tremble, dread, fear, oppress, prevail, break, be terrified, cause to tremble
1a1) to cause to tremble, terrify
1b2) to tremble, feel dread
1b) (Niphal) to be awesome, be terrible
1c1) to regard or treat with awe, regard or treat as awful
1c2) to inspire with awe, terrify
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: a primitive root
Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence G127 and godly fear:G2124
Perhaps from G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492 (through the idea of downcast eyes); bashfulness, that is, (towards men), modesty or (towards God) awe: - reverence, shamefacedness.
godly fear: G2124
From G2126; properly caution, that is, (religiously) reverence (piety); by implication dread (concretely): - fear (-ed).
I know of no Christian that bows down and worships a bunny or chicks or colored eggs. Unless, there are churches who do bow down, give revernce or fear/dread to bunnies in their services and believe them to be God, And I am thinking if there are some, that means they aren't a christian chuch to begin with. So unless there is some provable documentation to the contrary, the false accusation and myth of Christians worshipping bunnies or chicks or preparing colored eggs as part of that false worship, is totally busted.