Is Easter Pagan? - Printable Version
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RE: Is Easter Pagan? - sheep wrecked - 12-30-2010 03:07 PM
(12-29-2010 10:18 PM)Backpacker Wrote: Etymology is a fascinating subject and is a subject of great interest to me. You can't just look at two words, like "red" and "read" and say they come from the same root just because they have two consonant in common. You have to research the history of the words as they travel from one culture and language to another. Your example of bell and ball is very interesting, because bell and ball, along with bald and blue come from the same Proto Indo-European root "bhel."
Etymology is a fascinating topic. But you also have to aware that some sources will promulgate error based on what is considered "common" knowledge or understanding. If you are as studied as you represent yourself to be, you must know that taking a simple explanation that Ishtar is Ostara is a huge leap in the world etymology.
The very fact that those who study the ancient deities present zero connection to Ostara/Eostre is enough to question the validity of any "etymology" that connects them - as is shown in the quote from one of my sources on it.
My point about bell and ball is that you can connect any language in the world to known phonetic sounds from one language to another. If you consider that "scholarship", have at it.
I do find it interesting that you had mentioned the famous HR concept of not using the names of other gods [taking the Lord's Name in vain], yet you continue to use both "Easter" and "Ishtar" quite freely. Aren't you concerned?
As far as "trappings" - it is far too easy to say que sera sera when you have pointedly taken the position that those who celebrate Easter are actually involving themselves in paganism. Could you not view that as being a bit hypocritical?
RE: Is Easter Pagan? - Backpacker - 12-30-2010 03:36 PM
(12-30-2010 03:07 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: Etymology is a fascinating topic. But you also have to aware that some sources will promulgate error based on what is considered "common" knowledge or understanding. If you are as studied as you represent yourself to be, you must know that taking a simple explanation that Ishtar is Ostara is a huge leap in the world etymology.
You bring up some excellent points and questions. I agree that error is very easy when it comes to etymology, which is why it is very important to take into account all available data on any given word. This is not an exact science. As for the word Eostre and Easter;
Quote:Joseph Bosworth and T. Northcote Toller, An Anglo-Saxon Dictionary (1898), "Eástre, the goddess of the rising sun, whose festivities were in April. Hence used by Teutonic Christians for the rising of the sun of righteousness, the feast of the resurrection," noting Bede and Grimm, Deutsche mythologie 1855
Quote:O.E. Easterdæg, from Eastre (Northumbrian Eostre), from P.Gmc. *Austron, a goddess of fertility and spring, probably originally of sunrise whose feast was celebrated at the spring equinox, from *austra-, from PIE *aus- "to shine" (especially of the dawn). Bede says Anglo-Saxon Christians adopted her name and many of the celebratory practices for their Mass of Christ's resurrection. Ultimately related to east. Almost all neighboring languages use a variant of Latin Pasche to name this holiday. (Online Etymological Dictionary)
(12-30-2010 03:07 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: My point about bell and ball is that you can connect any language in the world to known phonetic sounds from one language to another. If you consider that "scholarship", have at it.
As I pointed out in my last post, no you cannot just willy nilly say this word is related to this word just because they have the same consonants. You must take into account the meaning of each word in each culture and language. I hope you at least agree that the science of etymology is a recognized science all scholars believe that English, German, French, Italian, etc. languages all stem from a Proto Indo-European language.
(12-30-2010 03:07 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: I do find it interesting that you had mentioned the famous HR concept of not using the names of other gods [taking the Lord's Name in vain], yet you continue to use both "Easter" and "Ishtar" quite freely. Aren't you concerned?
I have no problem using the names of other gods, in fact God himself mentioned the names of many of them. I have heard people use Exodus 23:13 to say you shouldn't speak the names of other gods, but in my opinion they have misunderstood the meaning of this verse. The word for mention is the verb זכר (ZKR) which means "remember," we are not to remember these gods.
(12-30-2010 03:07 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: As far as "trappings" - it is far too easy to say que sera sera when you have pointedly taken the position that those who celebrate Easter are actually involving themselves in paganism. Could you not view that as being a bit hypocritical?
Not at all. Here is how I look at it. I have been wrong before and will in all most likelihood be wrong again in the future. So, I may very be wrong in this issue so why should I say you are wrong when you could very well be right? We are all learning (at least I hope we are).
RE: Is Easter Pagan? - sheep wrecked - 12-31-2010 07:21 PM
(12-30-2010 03:36 PM)Backpacker Wrote: You bring up some excellent points and questions. I agree that error is very easy when it comes to etymology, which is why it is very important to take into account all available data on any given word. This is not an exact science. As for the word Eostre and Easter;
We can agree on the science of etymology. It’s fact. But words mean different concepts dependent on culture and nationality. You cannot force Ishtar to equal Eostre if there is no connection between the two. Ishtar was the goddess of war. She went to hell to get Tammuz. Just how does this even come close to some ethereal mythical non-existent German goddess that supposedly cavorted with bunnies? There is no evidence of a goddess by the name of Eostre. None, zilch, nada – no archaeology, no writings, nothing. Bede made her up > by his own admission! Then the Grimm brothers wrote fairy tales about her. Enter Hislop whose book is just one load of conjecture after another. He is the one who took gods and goddesses and started applying to them to unrelated myths and turned the history of these deities in a complete mess. Then CJ Koster and Lew White marketed it as truth and now we have masses of people all jumping on the band wagon shouting how pagan Easter is. Easter is the TIME of year aka Spring months.
Some quotes from those who have researched the facts:
Quote:“This was [Bede’s] attempted etymology of Easter – which is only called that in English of course. The problem is that as the Goddess in question, Eostre is completely unknown otherwise, … so this proposed etymology is probably spurious. In the 19th century a German antiquarian invented Osatra, as the German form, using Bede as his source.
Quote:“ It is equally valid, however, to suggest that the Anglo-Saxon “Estor-monath”simply meant “the month of opening”, or the “month of beginning”, and that Bede mistakenly connected it with a goddess who either never existed at all, or was never associated with a particular season, but merely, like Eos and Aurora, with the Dawn itself.” [Stations of the Sun, p.180]
Quote:]“Eostre is a very obscure Goddess, and uniquely Anglo-Saxon Heathen. She is not mentioned at all in the Norse corpus and only fleetingly in the Old English by Bede in De Temporum Rationale. Her material is so scant that some scholars have speculated she was not a Goddess at all, but that Eostre was merely a name for the holiday.”
Quote:“All we know from Bede was that she was worshipped sometime in April. Bede also mentions another Anglo-Saxon goddess, Hredhe, who was honoured in March, and for whom the month of March was named. If the heathen Anglo-Saxons actually did worship a goddess at the Vernal Equinox, then according to the only historical evidence we have it would have been Hredhe, not Eostre.”
Please read the article on my blog:
Exactly the point. Easter is of Germany. She has nothing to do with Ishtar. Ishtar does not mean "east" - it means "to lead".
Quote: I have no problem using the names of other gods, in fact God himself mentioned the names of many of them. I have heard people use Exodus 23:13 to say you shouldn't speak the names of other gods, but in my opinion they have misunderstood the meaning of this verse. The word for mention is the verb זכר (ZKR) which means "remember," we are not to remember these gods.
That does not agree with what you wrote in post #57:
"Whatever we call the day of the risen Lord, it is a celebration of the greatest miracle in the Bible. I have done my research on some of the customs and practices of Easter and for this reason we do not have an Easter Bunny or color eggs (for the same reason we don't celebrate All hallow's Eve by dressing up as witches and goblins). But I leave this up to each individual and would never preach you are wrong and I am right (because I have been wrong before ;). Also, I prefer to call it Resurrection Sunday instead of Easter as this is the name of a goddess and in Exodus 23:13 God says not to mention the names of other gods.
Quote:Not at all. Here is how I look at it. I have been wrong before and will in all most likelihood be wrong again in the future. So, I may very be wrong in this issue so why should I say you are wrong when you could very well be right? We are all learning (at least I hope we are).
Usually when someone says, "we are all learning" - it simply means > “you are welcome to your opinion [which is wrong], but I have the truth and you don't.”
RE: Is Easter Pagan? - sari83 - 04-05-2011 01:09 PM
For quite some time, I was troubled by the pagan connotations of Easter. In my mind, I began to wonder if the simple the fact that the sun rises in the east, explains why every year churches hold sunrise services on Easter. Just like the many other "white washed" practices of sun-worship the Roman Catholic Church "baptised" and converted to Christianity. Not to mention the bunnies and the eggs as a of representation fertility. All these things are perfectly fine in the "pagan" religion and worship of nature.
As I was studying the Scriptures one day I was pondering the possibility of Christ's Resurrection actually having taken place on the Sabbath. I discovered, "Sabbaton" is the Greek word that was translated into the "first day of the week."
Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
de 1161 Now
anistemi 450 when
-inserted word- 999 Jesus
anistemi 450 was risen
proi 4404 early
-inserted word- 999 the
protos 4413 first
-inserted word- 999 day
sabbaton 4521 of the week
"Now when (Jesus) was risen early first Sabbath"
Note: The counting of Sabbaths until Pentecost began after the Passover.
RE: Is Easter Pagan? - Vic - 04-06-2011 08:31 PM
Quote:sari83 >>>>I began to wonder if the simple the fact that the sun rises in the east, explains why every year churches hold sunrise services on Easter
Well, Sarah, if sunrise and worshipping the resurrection of Jesus Christ is pagan because of the possibly doing that at sunrise--which happens to come from the east, then I suppose you could connect the dots to say Jesus rising in the early hours of the day aka sunrise, was also a pagan thing? And the Mary's going to the tomb in the 'early hours' were also being pagan? Is sunrise, the sun or directions pagan? Doesn't God mention directions in His Word starting in Genesis?
Luk 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
Luk 24:2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
Luk 24:3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.
Mat 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
Mat 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
Mar 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
Mar 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
Mar 16:3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?
Easter is merely the fulfillment of the shadow of passover, and is the 'passover' for the new covenant. Jesus is our passover lamb. OT passover is still celebrated in Judaism by those who reject the new covenant. Jesus brought in the new covenant and said:
Luk 22:17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
Luk 22:18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
RE: Is Easter Pagan? - sari83 - 04-07-2011 12:30 AM
(04-06-2011 08:31 PM)Vic Wrote: Well, Sarah, if sunrise and worshipping the resurrection of Jesus Christ is pagan because of the possibly doing that at sunrise--which happens to come from the east, then I suppose you could connect the dots to say Jesus rising in the early hours of the day aka sunrise, was also a pagan thing? And the Mary's going to the tomb in the 'early hours' were also being pagan? Is sunrise, the sun or directions pagan? Doesn't God mention directions in His Word starting in Genesis?
I think you may have forgotten one of the important witnesses:
The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.
Look at the first part of the verse:
ho 3588 the
mia 3391 first (day, inserted word)
ho 3588 of the
sabbaton 4521 week (translated as sabbath about 60 times, and as week about 8 times)
(04-06-2011 08:31 PM)Vic Wrote: Easter is merely the fulfillment of the shadow of passover, and is the 'passover' for the new covenant. Jesus is our passover lamb. OT passover is still celebrated in Judaism by those who reject the new covenant. Jesus brought in the new covenant and said:[/b]
Are you saying Easter is the Lord's supper? Are we really comparing a big bunny and colored eggs to Passover? Is there even one scripture verse that commands a celebration called Easter? Is the Resurrection commanded as a celebration? Is is true that "Easter Sunday" celebrations didn't begin until around the 3rd century?
I do not celebrate Passover either. I am one of those people who prefers to esteem each day alike. I do know what Paul says about the Passover though, and I cannot find even one mention of anything that remotely resembles "Easter."
1 Cor 5:7-8
Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
RE: Is Easter Pagan? - Vic - 04-07-2011 10:51 AM
(04-07-2011 12:30 AM)sari83 Wrote: Are you saying Easter is the Lord's supper? Are we really comparing a big bunny and colored eggs to Passover? Is there even one scripture verse that commands a celebration called Easter? Is the Resurrection commanded as a celebration? Is is true that "Easter Sunday" celebrations didn't begin until around the 3rd century?
No Sarah, you are comparing a big bunny and easter eggs to passover and easter and what Christians---Jews and Gentiles celebrated- after Jesus rose from the dead. They didn't bring in the bunnies and candy. Although some ate eggs after their fasts etc. Passover of the OT was the shadow of what was fulfilled in Jesus Christ. The apostles set the example of gathering on the first day of the week ie resurrection sunday to celebrate our Passover, Jesus Christ being our passover Lamb, and our rest. Who are you to condemn even the apostles for celebrating the New covenant passover which was fulfilled in Jesus Christ?
I esteem each day the same, but also recognise the God given right to celebrate and recognise and proclaim Jesus Christ's birth, death and resurrection as believers are want to do. Do you have a Scripture that forbids the celebration of who Jesus Christ is and what He did for us, dying on the cross and rising again and sitting on the right hand of the Father? Do you have a Scripture that forbids the acknowledgement that He is the reason Christians can celebrate and proclaim Him as the awaited Savior who fulfilled prophecy from the OT?
The Greek word translated as Easter is pascha. Some say the word should only be translated as Passover and not Easter. The KJV is not alone in translating this word as Easter. The Tyndale 1525, Coverdale 1535, Cranmer's bible (The Great Bible) 1540, Matthew's Bible 1549, Bishop's Bible 1568, all preceding the KJB, Mace's New Testament 1729, and Martin Luther also translated this word as Easter in 1545, and the German Luther version of 1912 also reads Easter (Ostern). The German word for Passover is a completely different word.
The Oxford English dictionary tells us that "Easter is one of the great festivals of the Christian church, commemorating the resurrection of Christ, and corresponding to the Jewish Passover, the name of which (Easter) it bears in most of the European languages. Greek -paska; Hebrew - pe'sah; Latin - pascha; French - pagues; Italian - Pasqua; Spanish - pascua."
The reason for the distinction of easter and passover is because one is the shadow of things to come, and one is the fulfillment.
The word pascha is translated all other times in the KJB as passover, which refers to the annual Jewish feast of offering a lamb to God to commemorate their deliverance out of slavery in Egypt. That's the shadow of things to come.
After the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, this word is used only three times, >in Acts 12:4, once in 1 Corinthians 5:7, where we are told, "For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us." Tyndale's Bible says, "For Christ our Easter lamb is offered up for us." And then in Hebrews 11:28 where the KJV says regarding Moses: "Through faith he kept the passover" (referring of course to the time of the exodus).
The NT is referring to a post-Resurrection timeline in Acts 12:4 where the KJV has translated this Greek word as Easter.
It makes no sense at all to believe that Tyndale, Cranmer, Coverdale, Matthews, the Great Bible, and the Bishop's Bible were referring to a pagan deity of the spring called Eastre, of which there is absolutely no historical record in the first place, when they called Christ the passover or easter lamb.
It is likewise grammatically absurd to think Easter refers to a pagan deity in Acts 12:4 where it says, "intending after Easter to bring him forth unto the people". Try substituting another relgious leaders name of other faiths there and see how it sounds.
Eastre and Easter come from the word East, but they are not related to each other in meaning. The sun rises in the east, to bring the light of a new day, and we are told concerning Christ in Malachi 4:2, "But unto you that fear my name shall the SUN of righteousness arise with healing in his wings."
Our word EASTER is of Saxon origin and of precisely the same import with its German cognate OSTERN. The German word for Easter (Ostern) is derived from the old Teutonic form of auferstehen / auferstehung, that is - RESURRECTION." This is quoted from "Eusebius' Ecclesiastical History," translated in 1850 by C. F. Cruse, Hendrickson Publishers, p 437.
The passover was a type or shadow of the true lamb of God who delivers His people out of the bondage of sin. Yet in the Jewish passover, there is no type of the resurrection, only the death of the lamb. The main theme of the preaching in Acts is the resurrection of the lamb of God, Jesus Christ.
And yes, the Lord's supper, which Jesus celebrated with the apostles is very much part of the Easter celebration. Paul, clearly refers to the "passover meal" as "The Lord's Supper" in 1 Corinthians 11:20. It is no longer celebrated only once a year but can be celebrated as many times a year as we wish. See 1 Corinthians 11:26. But only once a year do we publicly celebrate the resurrection, and in English and many other languages, this event is called Easter.
The earliest recorded reference to Pascha is a homily from around 150AD. This is older than most known copies of the New Testament writings, and during the time the Gospels were being recorded. It is one of the earliest recorded celebrations by Christians in general, and directly tied both to the Gospel resurrection message and the Jewish Passover during which Christ was crucified. There is absolutely no connection to anything pagan involved. Christians had obviously been celebrating Easter before 150 A.D. or so, since Christian leaders met to discuss its proper date and not the fact of its observance. It was accepted by the first believers that the apostles themselves set the tradition and it was to be followed by all. It is a celebration of the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and the Salvation of mankind through repentance of sin.
You need to get over these myths brought about by your immersion in HR and time spent with nazarite.net and Followers of Yah etc aka heresies. I know, you keep saying you learned all this stuff by studying yourself, but that would mean you wouldn't have been in company with those in these HR/messianic groups and agreeing with them and learning from them.
How many times have you prayed facing east? Are you a pagan for doing so? Have you ever watched a sunset or sunrise and marvelled at the beauty and are reminded of Almighty God's handiwork, or thought of Christ in those times? You must be a pagan if you have, based on your determinations and 'logic'.
RE: Is Easter Pagan? - sari83 - 04-07-2011 12:57 PM
The disciples most certainly did not begin the custom of "Pascha" or the celebration of Christ's Resurrection on Sunday. File that under the Christian myths section. We know for a fact that the Council of Nicea in 325 AD established the date of Pascha as the first Sunday following the full moon of the spring equinox.
The information is available for anyone who owns an encyclopedia. The origins are clear, and personally, I'm not going to be in denial about these things. If a person chooses to sprinkle their church lawn with colored eggs, or get up at sunrise and pray facing the sun in commemoration of Christ's Resurrection, that's obviously their decision. He is alive and well today and everyday. He see and knows everything we do and the intentions of our hearts, and that's the meaure he will judge us by.
RE: Is Easter Pagan? - Rose of Shushan - 04-07-2011 01:38 PM
Quote:Are you saying Easter is the Lord's supper? Are we really comparing a big bunny and colored eggs to Passover?
Are you saying Easter is a big bunny and coloured eggs? It seems to me that you haven't been around Christians much since as a Christian I find the question rather shallow and offensive.While these items form part of some of christianity's celebration traditions they form such a minor part that it really is a question that I wouldn’t expect to hear from a fellow believer.
Sari noone is ordered to celebrate anything in the NT we are free to praise and esteem God in the way we wish.
The longer I have been out of M the more I see what a party pooper its beliefs have been.
Celebrating our Lord's resurrection and the brirth of our saviour are the two key celebrations which usually come under attack.
So many out there seem to want to block out these events which were the culmination of what the prophets foretold across the millennia.
As a child I remember feeling really sorry for the child of one of our neighours who were Jehovah witnesses.They don’t do any celebrations as you may know, not even birthdays or anything and it seemed to me so different to what God intends for us.
Celebrations were included in the Mosaic law and to me its natural that we may want to have periods of time and reflection when Passover/ easter time comes around.Its a time when families get together to celebrate and rejoice before God in diverse ways according to their custom..
Sari did you know that in many non English countries easter is called la Pascua and it comes from the word Passover.In Spanish they are the same word even though to an english speaking christian it will mean easter and to a jew Passover.
RE: Is Easter Pagan? - sari83 - 04-07-2011 02:34 PM
(04-07-2011 01:38 PM)Rose of Shushan Wrote:Quote:Are you saying Easter is the Lord's supper? Are we really comparing a big bunny and colored eggs to Passover?
Yes, I'm saying a huge part of Easter is the big bunny, colored eggs, and an event based on the spring equinox. It's a mixture of the pagan spring holiday and the true holiday celebrating Christ. Since, paganism is just simply any practice that came from or was part of a polytheistic religion. It's not difficult to conclude where these "extra" practices came from. And personally, I think due to the origins of the way Easter is celebrated by large, it undermines the true celebration of Christ, and the command of not being of the world. It's another attempt of humans to choose our own definitions of how we wish worship him. I have many Christian friends and attend a local bible study. Many of them are truly godly people and I truly enjoy their company. I acknowledge that I am just an imperfect person, and that I'll never be righteous through works. However, I am saddened that we have turned the narrow path Christ calls us to, and created one of ease. Where a Christian can dissolve right into the world around them and not be set-apart in all ways. "Pascha" is the true celebration of Christ's Resurrection. The early Christians and disciples did not celebrate Christ's Resurrection on Sunday, nor with bunnies or colored eggs. Pascha is similar to the original feast of Passover, but with the added dimension of Christ as the Passover lamb, and the spiritual understanding of everything the celebration truly means.