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RE: What's the True Name of God? - zeke25 - 07-19-2010 04:47 PM
It's not necessary or advisable to paste your whole teaching here. We are very familiar with every nuance of teachings regarding knowing the name of God. There is no version or translation that has the "true name of God". It is hidden from us and will not be revealed until the age to come.
To know His Name, is to know HIM - His character, reputation, authority. Jesus taught us to call Him Father. The NT calls Him Father. That is truth.
The Scriptures for this are found in the article:
http://www.seekgod.ca/htname.htm
ps: It is a Hebrew Roots teaching and has been promoted by them almost singlehandedly, which is why it is in this section.
You can back down on the extra large print, please - it really makes it hard to read and feels like yelling
[/quote]
SW,
No, my teaching is not an HR teaching. It is from the Bible and I am not an advocate for the heretical HRM. I have been to the website above and found that the information there is not only inadequate, but false and heretical: the author has bought into the lie of the enemy of our soul and needs to be set free.
And for you SW is Proverbs 18:13 KJV, "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him."
Do not judge me with your hypocritical attitude. My font is big because I need the visual aid of being able to see what I write. Excuse me for being visually challenged. I hope you stay healthy enough that you will not become a victim of your accusations and cruel judgments.
Zeke25
RE: What's the True Name of God? - truth pick - 07-19-2010 07:21 PM
(07-19-2010 04:47 PM)zeke25 Wrote: No, my teaching is not an HR teaching. It is from the Bible and I am not an advocate for the heretical HRM. I have been to the website above and found that the information there is not only inadequate, but false and heretical: the author has bought into the lie of the enemy of our soul and needs to be set free.
Hi!
Wow - you really have me curious! what is it about that article that is false anyway? I have been posting it around awhole lot. Can you pick out a couple of things that the author wrote that you disagree with?
Thanx!
I hope the size is better for your eyes
RE: What's the True Name of God? - zeke25 - 07-19-2010 08:47 PM
Hi!
Wow - you really have me curious! what is it about that article that is false anyway? I have been posting it around awhole lot. Can you pick out a couple of things that the author wrote that you disagree with?
Thanx!
I hope the size is better for your eyes
[/quote]
Thank you for the font.
Posted MON 7-19-10
First, it is the approach and attitude taken by the author. He is seeking to discredit the whole idea that God's name is important. And since God's name is used 6 to 7 thousand times in the OT, that would reveal that God doesn't agree with this author's assessment. In fact, it is very important to God if one knows His name. The author further attempts to discredit God's name by the title of his article. He just throws up a bunch of names; thereby implying that it is just a bunch of baloney. A sincere researcher will look for the real pearl. The motivation to seek His name must come from the heart, not the brain.
Next, go to the 5th paragraph in which he lists 8 names, beginning with Jao. He gives credit to ancient Greek writers for transcribing the Hebrew Divine Name, showing their English pronunciation. Don't forget he called God's name a Hebrew name. But first, let's look at all the J's. These ancient Greek writers must have been psychic. The letter J was not even in the English language until circa 1634 AD. How did those ancient Greek writers know and accomplish all of this? The original KJV of the Bible had no J's in it at all. The pronunciation of Jesus is a rather recent phenomena. What in the world was He called before English speaking people discovered the J? What did the KJ translators call Him? Now let's go back to the bogus claim that he is only talking about the "Hebrew" name of God. God gave us one name to call Him by forever. But wait, now must I learn this name in multiple languages? Give me a break. God's name is His name.
During the last Olympics in China, did you notice, amid the ramble of endless Chinese syllables suddenly you might hear "Jim Smith". Why? Because Jim Smith was getting ready to compete and the Chinese didn't translate his name. When George Bush would go to a Spanish speaking country, would they address him as Jorge? Of course not. When Mikhail Gorbachev came to America did we start calling him Michael or Mikey? Of course not. Etc. Neither should God's name be translated. It is the same in Hebrew as it is in English as it is in Swahili.
Let's skip down to where this author has listed some supposed names numbered 1 thru 9. I will copy and paste from that point for a little bit:
"9. Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh as I AM WHO I AM
I believe that much of this name confusion originated, due to the fact that English speaking people do not fully understand the meaning of the Hebrew word shem, which is often times translated as name in our English Bibles. I would like to discuss the Hebrew meaning of the word shem, found in Exodus 3:15, where God Almighty stated this:
"This is My Name forever"
The word shemiy, which is from the root word shem (H8034), is often translated into English as name. The word shem, has a much deeper meaning than just name in the Hebrew language. Shem can also mean likeness, authority, character, renown, report, memorial, mark, fame, rank, majesty, and a representation of who someone is.
.
.
.
When God Almighty said to Moses I AM WHO I AM (Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh), He was describing who He was, is, and will be. He is the Eternal, without beginning or end."
That is the end of the copy and paste. Mighty shoddy work for a researcher who thinks he might enlighten others. What in the world is he really saying here? I am not quite sure, but let me take my best guess. It looks like he is saying that God said, "This is My Name forever" and that this forever name is "I AM WHO I AM". Huh? That is not what God said at all. At least my King James and the other dozen or so translations I have do not say this.
I'll stop here, because I have said enough and it is getting too long. Besides, the point has been made: this author has no credibility.
zeke25
RE: What's the True Name of God? - Rose of Shushan - 07-19-2010 09:23 PM
Quote:That is the end of the copy and paste. Mighty shoddy work for a researcher who thinks he might enlighten others. What in the world is he really saying here? I am not quite sure, but let me take my best guess. It looks like he is saying that God said, "This is My Name forever" and that this forever name is "I AM WHO I AM". Huh? That is not what God said at all. At least my King James and the other dozen or so translations I have do not say this.
I have been following this thread but didn't comment since I wasn't really sure what your point was zeke.
However I had looked up both Exodus 3:14 and 3:15 to see what all the fuss was about and to see if I could see what you were trying to get at.
I have checked the verses in various translations and they do funnily enough seem to say what you think theyre not saying.
Let's look at the KJV
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Exo 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
It certainly seems from there that Moses is to say to the Children of Israel that "I am/ I will be" was the name or the response that Moses was to give to the people when they asked what God's name was.
We cannot get away from the fact that whatever Bible we use it says ehiyeh sent me.I am no hebrew scholar but the Hebrew there doesn't say YHVH but aleph heh yud heh pronounced yehiyeh and in modern hebrew,as far as I know means I will be.
This is how I see it and do not see why you are so incensed with the writer of that article.
What do you say it means then and why is the KJV and the Hebrew text wrong?
RE: What's the True Name of God? - zeke25 - 07-20-2010 12:50 AM
Dear Rose of Shushan,
Thank you for weighing in. You are an administrator. I request that this thread, at least since I joined it on 7/17/10, be moved to its proper place under "Christianity". It is an affront to Christ for this discussion to be taking place under the heretical HRM section. God takes His name very seriously. I would have started it there myself, but was informed that as a newbie I cannot start a thread until I have made 50 posts. But then the instructions request that I start a thread to introduce myself. Ambiguous? Actually, I tried to start a thread on this subject, but it was removed because I broke the rules.
Furthermore, I was invited, more than once to refrain from posting the full teaching I have prepared. If I were to post it, the answer to your question is there. It is not my fault. I have offered.
I don't even know you, but I do not blame you for not knowing the answer to your own question. If you had been taught all your Christian walk that one plus one equals three, then you would believe it, even it I handed you one candy bar and then added another candy bar and told you to total the number. You would say three. Then I would show you an example of what three candy bars looked like by giving you one more. You would still be in confusion and refuse to believe the truth.
Where is God's name in Exodus 3:15? I will tell you plainly - it is not there. Should it be there? Of course it should be there. It has been hidden from you. Can you find where it is supposed to be in verse 15? Once you find it then you will know what His forever name is that He wants you to know.
Yes, I am angry with the writer of this article of many false names for the Self-existing One. S/he presents a teaching and misinforms you. At best, the misinformation is due to sloppy study habits. At worst, it is purposeful deception.
Do you even really know what Exodus 3:15 says? Let's look at it again. Exodus 3:15 KJV, "And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations."
Now let's insert God's name in its rightful place.
Exodus 3:15 KJV, "And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, [ יהוה ] God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations." And there it is. Right where it is supposed to be. The name that is His name forever. It has been hidden from you in two ways. One, it was translated as LORD. Two, you have been repeatedly misinformed by everyone who ever taught you that His forever name is I AM. God never said that! Do you know that the King James translators were required to lie about God's name, and many other names? Those scholars knew what His name was and they were required to lie and not tell you. I have proof of this in my teaching. But at least two people in this forum do not think that you or others in this forum has the mental stamina to read and understand this teaching; that is why I have been encouraged not to give it.
What did God say in Exodus 3:14? Oops, I can't tell you. I don't want to tax your mental capabilities.
I've written too much. Not my sentiment, but the sentiment of other administrators.BTW, I think that God's true children, that love our Father with all their heart, can endure the entire teaching and be enlightened by the Holy Ghost while doing so. But those who desire a fast food religion will not be interested and they will never know what has really been said in Exodus 3:14. The proof of this is that they haven’t known, until now, what Exodus 3:15 has said. And BTW again, the Scriptures can guide us to the proper pronunciation of His forever name.
If I haven't offended you, then post again. I will tell you what has really been said in Exodus 3:14, even though teachings have come out for years and claimed that two candy bars are really three. Not!
In Christ,
Zeke25
RE: What's the True Name of God? - Mary - 07-20-2010 05:40 AM
[/size]
Hi Zeke,
I have great empathy for anyone with any form of disability, and respect your need for larger print, but impairment/disability is no excuse for bad manners, and accusing someone of not being understanding when they do not know is unfair. It is commonly known that using large print or capitals is "shouting" when communicating by computer, so it would have been good manners to explain your reasons in your intro. You could also have respectfully asked us to answer you in larger print.
Regarding starting threads, the rules are clear, and being picky about being able to start an intro thread as a newbie is just being hypercritical.
So as they so aptly say hear in Aussie, pull your head in. You can make your point without throwing all your "stuff" around.
RE: What's the True Name of God? - Mary - 07-20-2010 08:20 AM
When I read your "teaching", a word came to mind: "confusion".
I googled some of your phrases and found an article by 'remantofyhwh.com' which is very similar to what you are saying. Are you the author of the article, or have you taken your "teaching" from it?
Please take a good look at 1 Corinthians 14: 1-33
Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, everyone of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
These verses are applicable to language, and as a response to your "teaching" I find verse 9; So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air." particularly apt.
The respectful translation of YHWH to My Lord, or the Lord, and the translation of the Hebrew word meaning saviour to Jesus, meaning saviour, is not the result of some conspiracy to keep us from understanding and knowing God.
I think you are in danger of making a god out of God's name.
RE: What's the True Name of God? - Rose of Shushan - 07-20-2010 10:43 AM
Quote:Where is God's name in Exodus 3:15? I will tell you plainly - it is not there. Should it be there? Of course it should be there. It has been hidden from you. Can you find where it is supposed to be in verse 15? Once you find it then you will know what His forever name is that He wants you to know.
The word YHVH is there in the hebrew text, the Hebrew reads
Vayomer od Elohim el Moshe, koh tomar al bnei Israel YHVH elohei avoteichem elohei Abraham elohei Yitzhak elohei Yakov shlachani aleichem.
So it is there.As you well know (or should know),,the tetragrammaton isn't translated literally by many Bibles.Since we don't know the vowel points that would make for awkward transliteration too.
However you haven't addressed the point I was trying to make to you that verse 14 has ehiyeh sent me to you.What do you say about that?
Quote:Now let's insert God's name in its rightful place.
Exodus 3:15 KJV, "And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, [ יהוה ] God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations." And there it is. Right where it is supposed to be. The name that is His name forever. It has been hidden from you in two ways. One, it was translated as LORD. Two, you have been repeatedly misinformed by everyone who ever taught you that His forever name is I AM. God never said that!
Well what you've done up there is substitute the Hebrew YHVH for Lord.Big deal LOL..different Bibles have different ways of translating it as I wrote above already.
As to being misinformed on whether his name is I am , well who has misinformed us? The Hebrew has ehiyeh we can't get around that.It does not say YHVH schlachani aleichem but ehiyeh schlachani aleichem.
Are you saying someone tampered with the Hebrew?
I do wish you would quit the obfuscation and get to the points.
You wrote
Quote:Do you know that the King James translators were required to lie about God's name, and many other names? Those scholars knew what His name was and they were required to lie and not tell you. I have proof of this in my teaching.Again the King James or other Bibles translate YHVH as they see fit but this doesn’t get us round verse 14 not having YHVH.It is not a "problem" of the King James translators but of the Hebrew text.
RE: What's the True Name of God? - truth pick - 07-20-2010 11:12 AM
I am a bit confused myself. So I went back and looked at the article. This is what the King James Verison has in it's preface - which you can find online as well:
Quote:Those who promote this conspiratorial concept might be interested to know that there is actually a translation code that was followed by the King James translators, as well as other modern translators, so that English readers can actually understand how the Hebrew is relative to the English translation, which is universal usage in most versions. It is as follows:
Elohiym is rendered as God
El is rendered as God
Elah is rendered as God
Eloah is rendered as God
Adonay is rendered as Lord
Adonay YHWH is rendered as Lord GOD
YHWH is rendered as LORD
YHWH Elohiym is rendered as LORD God
Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh as I AM WHO I AM
I don't think it was a conspiracy really
Afterall, the King James version is in English oh, and I think the reason that the article is in the Hebrew Roots section is because this is a major sacred name teaching inthat movement. My understanding for the article was to disprove the use of a specific spelling or pronunciation.
So ..... can you please show us in the OT where the Name of God is clearly stated - like how it's pronounced?
RE: What's the True Name of God? - Vic - 07-20-2010 07:00 PM
(07-20-2010 12:50 AM)zeke25 Wrote: [size=large]Dear Rose of Shushan,
Thank you for weighing in. You are an administrator. I request that this thread, at least since I joined it on 7/17/10, be moved to its proper place under "Christianity". It is an affront to Christ for this discussion to be taking place under the heretical HRM section.
Zeke as a new member you are being more than a little overbearing. You appear to think you are hear to teach everyone when in fact there is no proof you know anything about what you are refuting. For you to be allowed to post a 14 part article---even long time members would not be allowed to do such a thing---would be considered spamming. The forum isnt a platform to merely come and disseminate your writings.
The proper place for this topic is just exactly where it is because not only is it relative to HR, HR crosses over into Christianity. So it affects all believers.
[qupte]God takes His name very seriously. I would have started it there myself, but was informed that as a newbie I cannot start a thread until I have made 50 posts. But then the instructions request that I start a thread to introduce myself. Ambiguous? Actually, I tried to start a thread on this subject, but it was removed because I broke the rules.
[/quote]The issue of starting threads and even the issue of starting one to introduce yourself is discussed right in the rules so there is no confusion or contradiction. Your attitude reeks of arrogance and contempt for the rules that had to be put in place because of just such attitudes. There were none for many months when the forum was started. If you have not read them--read them. It's required so you do not break them.
http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=560
http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=229
Quote:Furthermore, I was invited, more than once to refrain from posting the full teaching I have prepared. If I were to post it, the answer to your question is there. It is not my fault. I have offered.
You do not need a thesis to answer the few questions and specific points people are directing towards you. If you cannot answer just say so. It has nothing to do with telling you in polite way that you are not going to be posting your articles in their entirety. If you want to address a few points fine.
Quote:Yes, I am angry with the writer of this article of many false names for the Self-existing One. S/he presents a teaching and misinforms you. At best, the misinformation is due to sloppy study habits. At worst, it is purposeful deception.
So far all you have managed to do is make derogatory and false statements concerning the author of that article. So far all you have presented has been refuted by actual language issues etc. Do not continue in the vein of arrogant putdowns. You have proven nothing except admitting you have an agenda--which doesn't really impress. You want to have a discussion--discuss by specific points. Buit don't come here and continue the way you have been doing.
...
Quote:were required to lie and not tell you. I have proof of this in my teaching. But at least two people in this forum do not think that you or others in this forum has the mental stamina to read and understand this teaching; that is why I have been encouraged not to give it.
Zeke, no one said people didnt have the mental stamina to read and understand. I have many lengthy research articles that thousands read and understand. The issue was that you have come on here and were starting to present a 14 section posting??? and expect people to just lap it up because you wrote it and it is "correct". You obviously think you have the only truth on the matter...and thats called being gnostic.
You were being given an out without breaking the rules, by being told people would not want to read it. That's also just common on forums--people don't want books. They want to discuss. And when it is necessary to refute someone we might do lengthy posts because it usually doctrinally related. But that isnt something a newb has earned.
Quote:What did God say in Exodus 3:14? Oops, I can't tell you. I don't want to tax your mental capabilities.
Do not continue to demean members and readers. You say anything like this again and it will not go well at all.
Quote:BTW, I think that God's true children, that love our Father with all their heart, can endure the entire teaching and be enlightened by the Holy Ghost while doing so. But those who desire a fast food religion will not be interested and they will never know what has really been said in Exodus 3:14. The proof of this is that they haven’t known, until now, what Exodus 3:15 has said. And BTW again, the Scriptures can guide us to the proper pronunciation of His forever name.
So far you are being proven wrong on your interpretation. It has nothing to do with needing to be enlightened by you. It has to do with understanding the Scriptures and since you want to use language issues--understanding those things also. All I see that you have proven is that you think you are the only one to know anything and it is obvious you aren't really here to discuss anything unless everyone agrees with you. And so far you appear to be wrong.
Quote:If I haven't offended you, then post again. I will tell you what has really been said in Exodus 3:14, even though teachings have come out for years and claimed that two candy bars are really three. Not!
I would recommend that you reply individually to each poster who has commented and answer what has been asked of you directly and stop hedging and being indignant that you are not going to be allowed to post your article writings here. Instead keep on point with what is being asked of you.
