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Rose of Shushan · 12-06-2011, 11:54 PM

That's really well put Lois and really adds to what I was trying to get across to Mark! The parable you use explains it very well.

***Vic*** · (This post was last modified: 12-07-2011 10:24 AM by Vic.)

(12-06-2011 11:24 PM)Lois Wrote: Israel got to physically see Jesus, walk with Him and talk with Him every day.
Jesus only came to the house of Israel physically in the flesh.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
Mat 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
Mat 15:27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy FAITH: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

The rest of the world got Jesus through word(the testimony of Paul) and faith.

Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy FAITH: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

God can't go against His own word...
Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Mat 7:9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

That woman was not of the house of Israel but she sought God ,she asked Jesus and God honored her FAITH and His word by making her daughter whole.

Well said Lois! Sign0169

I was just reminded of Acts 3 where Peter shows the promise of Christ and salvation to Israel first and culminates it by saying

Act 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
Act 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

And also Acts 13 which shows the prophecy and promise through history to Israel and then Paul culminates the issue by saying:

Act 13:24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.
Act 13:25 And as John fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose.
Act 13:26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent. ...

Act 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
Act 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Act 13:49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

Mark_R · 12-09-2011, 03:15 AM

(12-07-2011 10:22 AM)Vic Wrote:
(12-06-2011 11:24 PM)Lois Wrote: Israel got to physically see Jesus, walk with Him and talk with Him every day.
Jesus only came to the house of Israel physically in the flesh.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
Mat 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
Mat 15:27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy FAITH: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

The rest of the world got Jesus through word(the testimony of Paul) and faith.

Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy FAITH: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

God can't go against His own word...
Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Mat 7:9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

That woman was not of the house of Israel but she sought God ,she asked Jesus and God honored her FAITH and His word by making her daughter whole.

Well said Lois! I was just reminded of Acts 3 where Peter shows the promise of Christ and salvation to Israel first and culminates it by saying

Act 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
Act 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

And also Acts 13 which shows the prophecy and promise through history to Israel and then Paul culminates the issue by saying:

Act 13:24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.
Act 13:25 And as John fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose.
Act 13:26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent. ...

Act 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
Act 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Act 13:49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

One of the problems here is your understanding of who Israel actually is. See, number one when Vic talk's about translation's being in error, you should really know that ALL English translations are in ERROR. It is absolutely impossible to accurately Translate Ancient Hebrew or Greek into English. And this is one of the biggest hang ups and deceptions of the Christian church. You all act like if it isn't in English then it's not correct. Understand where Christian doctrine even comes from , people!! These Apostles that you keep talking about like they were some how Christian, were Jews. And the ONLY scriptures they had was the Tanakh. And every single thing that any of that ever wrote or talked about, absolutely had to line up with the Tanakh. So, when the "Christian Church" try's to back up all their "doctrine", they all do it with the "new Testament". And that in it's self in wrong.
So, when you try to say we are not under the so called "old" law or covenant, or that some how we have a "option" to obey the Law, you are so incorrect. And it's totally your choice to continue in that erroneous decision. But, concidor these "Scriptures".

Exo 12:19 Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land.

Notice how a "stranger", (Hebrew it's "ger" which means stranger, alien, or sojourner) is included in the congregation (hebrew it's "edah", means family or crowd) Of Israel.

Exo_12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
Lev_19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Exo_12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
Exo_20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Lev_16:29 And this shall be a statute for ever unto you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, ye shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you:

Notice the words "FOR EVER". This happens alot in scripture. FOREVER and EVER, as well as ALWAYS. And it's usallay Said by GOD. So, you tell me, How long is forever anyway?

Lev_18:26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
Lev_24:22 Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God.
Num_15:15 One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD.
Num_15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.
Num_15:26 And it shall be forgiven all the congregation of the children of Israel, and the stranger that sojourneth among them; seeing all the people were in ignorance.
Num_15:29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.
Num_15:30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

This is the real deal right Here.
Deu 29:9 Keep therefore the words of this covenant, and do them, that ye may prosper in all that ye do.
Deu 29:10 Ye stand this day all of you before the LORD your God; your captains of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, with all the men of Israel,
Deu 29:11 Your little ones, your wives, and thy stranger that is in thy camp, from the hewer of thy wood unto the drawer of thy water:
Deu 29:12 That thou shouldest enter into covenant with the LORD thy God, and into his oath, which the LORD thy God maketh with thee this day:
Deu 29:13 That he may establish thee to day for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as he hath said unto thee, and as he hath sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.
Deu 29:14 Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath;
Deu 29:15 But with him that standeth here with us this day before the LORD our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day:
Deu 29:16 (For ye know how we have dwelt in the land of Egypt; and how we came through the nations which ye passed by;

Seriously?? You mean God actually made the Covenant with more then Just the "Israelite"?? That's a shocker!! Because in reality HE didn't, All that accept, and all that dwelt with them are considered a "ISRAELITE" just as if they were born one.

Deu_31:12 Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, [u]and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God, and observe to do all the words of this law: [/u]

Isa 56:1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
Isa 56:2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
Isa 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
Isa 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
Isa 56:8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

Noticed how the "stranger" and strangers sons, are linked to the GOD of ISRAEL and HIS COVENANT and HIS SABBATH. (and NO that is not the so called "Sunday, Christian sabbath")

Oh, and here is how a gentile, made a citizen of Israel walks through one of the gates in Revelations.
Eze_47:23 And it shall come to pass, that in what tribe the stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give him his inheritance, saith the Lord GOD.

See if you can wrap your minds around this concept?
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God
This is one of those places that the KJV, just totally gets the translation wrong, and is also where "Christians" can get twisted in their doctrines, if in fact they don't study it out correctly. Basically, because "fellowcitizens with the saints" is not really the meaning, it would more correctly and literally be closer to " fellow citizens with the set apart ones". And of course the "set apart Ones" are the Children of Israel.

And also to back up that claim here.
Isa 14:1 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob
Notice how the "strangers" shall be joined with them !! Not separate, and their own, like Christians seem to think they are.
Now does this make any sense??
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Yes it does make sense!! It means that this "secret" ,which is referred to in more then one place, is clearly that we who were NOT Israel are NOW Israel.

This is not tough to figure out unless of course your Doctrine isn't from the word. And how is it you can keep defending the Doctrine of your Church father's like say Emperor Constantine the Great. This is a direct qoute from "Constantine I and Christianity" , "

How could a Roman emperor have anything to do with an event that occurred three hundred years before he sat on the throne? Needless to say, Constantine had no part in the birth of Jesus. But he did play an important part in deciding when Jesus' birth would be celebrated through the centuries. To this day, no one knows for sure when Jesus was born, and there is no historical record of anyone celebrating the nativity until the fourth century.
Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus, better known as Constantine I or Constantine the Great, was born around the year A.D. 275 - almost three centuries after Jesus. He worshipped the pantheon of Roman gods as all his predecessors had done and especially the Roman sun god, Sol. However, as he was traveling to battle his most powerful rival in Italy, Maxentius, at the Tiber River in A.D. 312, he had a vision. In that vision, he reported seeing the cross of Christ superimposed on the sun with the words, in hoc signo vinces - "in this sign you shall conquer." After winning the battle, he became a strong champion of Christianity. The very next year, he met with Emperor Licinius, the ruler of the eastern provinces, to sign the Edict of Milan giving equal rights to all religious groups within the Roman Empire. He returned property seized from Christians, built a great number of churches, donated land, and convened the first Council of Nicaea in A.D. 325 to deal with false teaching within the church. Although he didn't completely leave his pagan roots and wasn't baptized until A.D. 337 on this deathbed, he did much to further the growth of the church.
Either as a means to unify his empire, or to make converting to Christianity easier, Constantine sought to blend Christian and pagan traditions. At that time, two prominent pagan winter festivals were celebrated. The first, starting on December 17 and lasting seven days, honored Saturn, the Roman god of agriculture. The second, starting on December 25 and lasting through January 1, commemorated the birth of Mithras, the Persian god of light. Constantine merged many of the traditions from these festivals with the Nativity story in the Bible and Christmas was born. From its beginning, Christmas was a holiday (or holy day), gifts were exchanged, families and friends gathered to feast, and a birth was celebrated; just like in the Roman and Persian festivities.

The first mention of December 25 as the date of Jesus' birth is found in an early Roman calendar from A.D. 336.

Just to keep all that in mind, you would all do your-self's well to study where your Doctrine and believes come from. Instead of blindly trusting someone else or placing your eternal lives in someone other then your very own hands.

Rose of Shushan · 12-09-2011, 10:14 PM

Mark I would love to reply to all that you wrote in the post above but I don't even know where to start! You have made so many points that you start off and not explain but instead just lump together that it's hard to know how to go about it.

It seems that you are very angry with christians and/or christianity for some reason and it's all spilling out in your post.
Maybe if you addressed the different posts in different threads that relate to the relevant subjects it might be easier to understand what it is you are trying to discuss.

**Lois** · 12-09-2011, 11:46 PM

To me it sounds like Mark is jealous of, and or offended by christians/christianity. He doesn't want to share his god with us.He is trying to misuse scripture to take God away from us by saying He(God) only came to Israel and that we are strangers to God.I'm glad that it is not up to you Mark..otherwise none of us would be saved but you.
BTW Mark..."Christian" is a general term.You are lumping everyone into one category of "Christian"."Christians" have many different beliefs, all of which are not truth or sound doctrine.
I personally do not believe in celebrating Christmas but I do NOT think it is sinful to celebrate Christmas.
Christmas is a CUSTOM.
Vic has a good article about Christmas here http://www.seekgod.ca/christmas.htm

Most people know that Dec 25th is not Jesus' date/day of birth. *sighs*
Mark you should really look around the site some more..read some of it.
You want to accuse Vicky and "Christians" of celebrating a "pagan holiday"..when Vic has already written an article about why she celebrates Christmas.
Mark,you do NOT know me or anyone else here and yet you want to proceed in telling us all what we believe.
I pray that you earnestly seek God and find Him. Mark.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Not just you,Mark..not just Israel..whosoever ..praise God!

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Not just you,Mark..not just Israel..whosoever ..praise God!

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Not just you,Mark..not just Israel..all ..praise God!

Like it or not,The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob is our God.He made Himself available to ALL through His Son Jesus!

Mark_R · 12-10-2011, 01:17 AM

(12-09-2011 11:46 PM)Lois Wrote: To me it sounds like Mark is jealous of, and or offended by christians/christianity. He doesn't want to share his god with us.He is trying to misuse scripture to take God away from us by saying He(God) only came to Israel and that we are strangers to God.I'm glad that it is not up to you Mark..otherwise none of us would be saved but you.
BTW Mark..."Christian" is a general term.You are lumping everyone into one category of "Christian"."Christians" have many different beliefs, all of which are not truth or sound doctrine.
I personally do not believe in celebrating Christmas but I do NOT think it is sinful to celebrate Christmas.
Christmas is a CUSTOM.
Vic has a good article about Christmas here http://www.seekgod.ca/christmas.htm

Most people know that Dec 25th is not Jesus' date/day of birth. *sighs*
Mark you should really look around the site some more..read some of it.
You want to accuse Vicky and "Christians" of celebrating a "pagan holiday"..when Vic has already written an article about why she celebrates Christmas.
Mark,you do NOT know me or anyone else here and yet you want to proceed in telling us all what we believe.
I pray that you earnestly seek God and find Him. Mark.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Not just you,Mark..not just Israel..whosoever ..praise God!

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Not just you,Mark..not just Israel..whosoever ..praise God!

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Not just you,Mark..not just Israel..all ..praise God!

Like it or not,The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob is our God.He made Himself available to ALL through His Son Jesus!

Lois
I never said you or Vic celebrated Christmas. I have no way of knowing that. At the same time for you to say it's ok to celebrate something that is such a major part of this world like Christmas, and it clearly being a Holiday of false Idol worship is also incorrect. And I also in no way shape or form want to say that you or anyone else has no place with the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob, that would be totally incorrect also. Again, at the same time for anyone to try to worship That God on Their terms rather then on HIS, is also a mistake and incorrect Doctrine.
And you are absolutely right Lois, when you say that I lumped all Christians altogether. And that was incorrect on my part and I apologize sincerely for that.
I'm not even going to try to justify that mistake. It was unfair of me.

Mary · 12-10-2011, 08:20 PM

For various reasons of late, I have neither the time nor the energy to get involved in discussions on the forum, but I have been reading this thread and the other posts you have made Mark, and the responses that have been made to you.

I hope this will come across with the same humility I feel when it happens, but as I read your posts, this verse portion came to mind: "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." and I believe that the Lord gave that to me to share with you and others. Of course, I think that phrase is just a pointer and He wants you, and all of us to look at what you are saying in light of the whole of Phillippians chapter 2.

As a starter, lets look at what follows from that portion:
"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."
So, (and I address this to all of us, including me, and not just you Mark: in your behaviour as a believer, as a person who has salvation in Christ, is what you do of your good pleasure or of His?

Then go back up to the beginning of the chapter, and notice the focus on Jesus Christ:
"If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
Fulfill ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Could you, Mark, go back over all you've posted, and ask yourself if your position leads you to confess that Jesus Christ is Lord? Is His name to you, the name above all names? And can the responses be considered in the same light?

**Lois** · 12-10-2011, 10:20 PM

Mark by saying this..

Quote:At the same time for you to say it's ok to celebrate something that is such a major part of this world like Christmas, and it clearly being a Holiday of false Idol worship is also incorrect

You are again lumping everyone into one category of being "false idol worshipers" when you do NOT know the intent of every person.

Mark_R · 12-10-2011, 10:21 PM

(12-10-2011 08:20 PM)Mary Wrote: For various reasons of late, I have neither the time nor the energy to get involved in discussions on the forum, but I have been reading this thread and the other posts you have made Mark, and the responses that have been made to you.

I hope this will come across with the same humility I feel when it happens, but as I read your posts, this verse portion came to mind: "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." and I believe that the Lord gave that to me to share with you and others. Of course, I think that phrase is just a pointer and He wants you, and all of us to look at what you are saying in light of the whole of Phillippians chapter 2.

As a starter, lets look at what follows from that portion:
"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."
So, (and I address this to all of us, including me, and not just you Mark: in your behaviour as a believer, as a person who has salvation in Christ, is what you do of your good pleasure or of His?

Then go back up to the beginning of the chapter, and notice the focus on Jesus Christ:
"If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
Fulfill ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Could you, Mark, go back over all you've posted, and ask yourself if your position leads you to confess that Jesus Christ is Lord? Is His name to you, the name above all names? And can the responses be considered in the same light?

Mary
You could not be more right and correct. And I have determined in fact to do as you have said. I did re-look at my post's and yes I do see exactly what you are saying. And yes regardless of how i may have been approached, you hit the whole point right on the money "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling". And in reality I most seriously and definitely do that very thing (or at least I work on it to the fullest) on a daily basis. And yes I truly do fall short at times. How ever, The Love and Thankfulness I have though, To my Savior and most High God, leads me very quickly to Return to HIM and HIS will and to check my motives and behavior.
Thank you for your input.

Mark_R · 12-10-2011, 10:32 PM

(12-10-2011 10:20 PM)Lois Wrote: Mark by saying this..

Quote:At the same time for you to say it's ok to celebrate something that is such a major part of this world like Christmas, and it clearly being a Holiday of false Idol worship is also incorrect
You are again lumping everyone into one category of being "false idol worshipers" when you do NOT know the intent of every person.

Lois
In this case, you are correct. I am lumping any and all Believers that celebrate Christmas. It's history and meaning are what they are, Idol worship of another god or religion. It appears nowhere in any Scripture and is completely a abomination to Our Creator to place a representative of that "tree" in HIS house and in ours. God is very serious about this type of thing and I believe that it truly offends HIM and belittles our reverence for what is truly Holy.
Now, that is my opinion, based on a massive amount of research and study and I'm sorry that my exception to worship a non- appointed Holiday or my opinion that putting that tree in our Houses of worship is a abomination to YHWH, but, that is my believe and i find way to much evidence to support that and, yes i feel very strongly about it and anything else that profanes the Name above all Names.