Prayer Needed...

[Mark]

First, let me apologize in advance if I sound angry and bitter. I am. I'm getting frustrated. We went school shopping the other day to get our 2 boys some clothes. We are not fancy dressers. Walmart, Kmart, local thrift stores are where we shop.
We managed to get everything but shoes for my oldest who desperately needs them because he has grown out of his. So I told my wife that we should get them this weekend since school starts Monday. When she checked the bank account she told me they would have to wait because she had a $100 donation to her church that she promised this week. Now, I'm all for donating. IF you have it to donate and IF your family's needs are met first. This is the same thing we go around with in the tithing category. I'm really frustrated and I am angry. I don't understand why we have to go through this. So PLEASE pray for us. We need to get past this financial issue. The kids are always last and I'm tired of it. I'm not putting them on a pedestal, but they deserve to have new shoes if they need them. I guess I'll have to take a second job. Sorry, I told you I was feeling bitter. Anyway, thanks in advance for your prayers.

[Rose of Shushan]

Mark
my heart really goes out to you and your situation. Will certainly be keeping your family in prayer.Something is very wrong when donations are put before children's needs.Kids feet grow fast and the correct footwear is so important.My heart truly cries for your situation and I am not surprised you are feeling bitter.
praying!!

[heb13-13]

Mark,

I am praying for you, too. I feel bad for you and your family. Two cannot lead a family if they are not in agreement and this is one of those heart-wrenching situations that happens. Please don't let a root of bitterness take hold of you. Things will only get worse.

Your wife looks to the Pastor as her Authority. She is not looking at the truth of the scriptures.

I think you and she should go to the Pastor and talk to him about this. Expose this and make your views known. Surely, he would agree that you should be in charge of the family's finances. Tell him what the present situation is doing to your relationship with your wife and your kids. Surely, the health of your relationship with your wife will be more important than money to him. You need to know where he stands, unless you already do. But if your marriage is MORE important than money to the Pastor, then your wife needs to hear this from the Pastor's own lips. And then she needs to stop giving away your money. That's just a form of confiscation.

[sheep wrecked]

My heart goes out to you, Mark. I so totally understand the mind set behind the tithes and offerings in the pentecostal movement. The overwhelming and overbearing guilt trip has destroyed many. The belief that unless you tithe you will offend God, is so ingrained that it is like trying to take a pacifier from a baby.

I truly pray that God leads someone to show the truth to your wife and He removes the blinders. She is obviously committed to this doctrine and only the intervention of God is going to make a difference at this point.

I was thinking of this verse when you first posted this thread - and wondered how your wife can ignore the Scriptural principle that is stressed so heavily here:

1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.


I am praying for you ..........

[Mark]

Thank you all. I appreciate your support and encouragement. I don't know what I would do without it.
I hope that I haven't painted a bad picture of my wife to you all. She really is a wonderful woman. She has just been lead astray by the whole financial obligation thing. We have had money issues before this as well and that was our own fault. The tithing thing only hurt more than helped.
Again, thank you all. I know that God will intervene and help us. It's hard to wait sometimes. His time is not our time and His ways are not our ways. That's tough to accept when you really want something to change.
Have a great day and thanks again. Feeling a little better.

[sheep wrecked]

(08-30-2009 03:42 PM)Mark Wrote:  Thank you all. I appreciate your support and encouragement. I don't know what I would do without it.
I hope that I haven't painted a bad picture of my wife to you all. She really is a wonderful woman. She has just been lead astray by the whole financial obligation thing. We have had money issues before this as well and that was our own fault. The tithing thing only hurt more than helped.
Again, thank you all. I know that God will intervene and help us. It's hard to wait sometimes. His time is not our time and His ways are not our ways. That's tough to accept when you really want something to change.
Have a great day and thanks again. Feeling a little better.

God is good and He is faithful. You are so right ........ in His time.

[Mark]

(08-30-2009 09:51 AM)heb13-13 Wrote:  Mark,

I am praying for you, too. I feel bad for you and your family. Two cannot lead a family if they are not in agreement and this is one of those heart-wrenching situations that happens. Please don't let a root of bitterness take hold of you. Things will only get worse.

Your wife looks to the Pastor as her Authority. She is not looking at the truth of the scriptures.

I think you and she should go to the Pastor and talk to him about this. Expose this and make your views known. Surely, he would agree that you should be in charge of the family's finances. Tell him what the present situation is doing to your relationship with your wife and your kids. Surely, the health of your relationship with your wife will be more important than money to him. You need to know where he stands, unless you already do. But if your marriage is MORE important than money to the Pastor, then your wife needs to hear this from the Pastor's own lips. And then she needs to stop giving away your money. That's just a form of confiscation.

I wish itwould be that easy. It's not a single pastor that believes that, it's the entire organization. That is part of their doctrine. It would be like trying to convince them that speaking in tongues is not the sign that you have received the Holy Ghost. They are very firm in their beliefs and therefore would do nothing if I were to approach him on this issues.

[sheep wrecked]

(08-31-2009 01:33 PM)Mark Wrote:  

(08-30-2009 09:51 AM)heb13-13 Wrote:  I think you and she should go to the Pastor and talk to him about this. Expose this and make your views known. Surely, he would agree that you should be in charge of the family's finances. Tell him what the present situation is doing to your relationship with your wife and your kids. Surely, the health of your relationship with your wife will be more important than money to him. You need to know where he stands, unless you already do. But if your marriage is MORE important than money to the Pastor, then your wife needs to hear this from the Pastor's own lips. And then she needs to stop giving away your money. That's just a form of confiscation.

I wish itwould be that easy. It's not a single pastor that believes that, it's the entire organization. That is part of their doctrine. It would be like trying to convince them that speaking in tongues is not the sign that you have received the Holy Ghost. They are very firm in their beliefs and therefore would do nothing if I were to approach him on this issues.


There is no reasoning

I would have to agree, Mark. As with all cults, the doctrines prevail, regardless of what people think or say. From their perspective, you are in rebellion because you are questioning her position, which she believes is Biblical and in line with her spiritual authority, which is the church - both in her perspective and theirs. I would guess that she does not believe you have any spiritual authority over her because you disagree with the basic tenants of her belief system.

What women are encouraged to do in many charis/pente venues is to rebuke the demon of rebellion off their husbands and have them delivered them from satanic oppression - this is often done by proxie, so-to-speak. Tongues is a great avenue to achieve this, as is anointing the husbands clothing in some way to promote spiritual awareness. If, after time, the husband does not "come around" to the "truth", the women are often encouraged to divorce or else they place themselves in double jeopardy - firstly, because they did not have the faith that would cause their husbands to change which reflects on their own spirituality and may undergo some "persecution" from that end. Secondly, if the wife does not get divorced, she will be also seen as spiritually inept and a failure. I am a bit surprised that no one has approached you personally due to your withdrawal from the church.

As long as the wife continues to tithe and give abundant offerings, the church will likely support her, but there is always the danger of the above scenario. If she decides to stop giving or pull back in some way, they will turn on her like snakes. The tithe and "seed sowing" are so important in this movement that they over-rule everything else in order to "receive from God" financially, spiritually, socially, physically, emotionally, and relationally. When one steps back from that system, they become a blemish and an abomination to the system.

I don't mean to come off so negative. Every church is a law unto themselves/Sr Pastor, so the route they take can be from one extreme to the other. Just be prepared, because it could get nasty at some point.

[Mark]

I don't mean to come off so negative. Every church is a law unto themselves/Sr Pastor, so the route they take can be from one extreme to the other. Just be prepared, because it could get nasty at some point.

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I don't take that as negative. I heard stories from pastors when I was attending that church where the wives were encouraged to leave the husband due to his "lack of faith" or "backsliding". I am actually surprised that no one from the church has wanted to sit down with both of us. Right now, the time is not good for them as there are only 4 people left in the congregation. I wonder if God is decreasing their number because He doesn't want to see them grow if they are preaching "another gospel". Not being cynical here, just viewing things from a new perspective.
Thank you for your input. I am being aware of things. Currently, my wife seems quite happy which is good. Neither of us are stepping on either's spiritual toes. Just letting God move the way he wants us to.

[Vic]

(09-01-2009 06:51 AM)Mark Wrote:  I don't take that as negative. I heard stories from pastors when I was attending that church where the wives were encouraged to leave the husband due to his "lack of faith" or "backsliding". I am actually surprised that no one from the church has wanted to sit down with both of us. Right now, the time is not good for them as there are only 4 people left in the congregation. I wonder if God is decreasing their number because He doesn't want to see them grow if they are preaching "another gospel". Not being cynical here, just viewing things from a new perspective.
Thank you for your input. I am being aware of things. Currently, my wife seems quite happy which is good. Neither of us are stepping on either's spiritual toes. Just letting God move the way he wants us to.

Hi Mark,

I have a habit of analysing things--seems like part of what I do. So, when something sounds a little off, it bugs me until I state something about it. So Mark, please bear with my 'bug'. I know you have been going through such a tough time these months and I see where you are growing in Christ, and using the Scriptures as your standard and I am absolutely thrilled by all of that.

Now here's the thing nagging me. You said "Currently, my wife seems quite happy which is good. Neither of us are stepping on either's spiritual toes. Just letting God move the way he wants us to."

But that isn't accurate to me, based on the things you have said. Your wife is controlling the bank account for the tithe which impacted your children getting needed shoes, plus the other obligations you have mentioned previously as having difficulty meeting. Therefore, her spiritual beliefs are stepping on your toes and your childrens unshoed toes.

Forgive me, I don't want to intrude. But isn't it true that it is because of your wife's spiritual/religious beliefs that you are being placed in a secondary spiritual position in your home and with your wife and children. Isn't it because of your wife imposing her church beliefs above yours, that your children have had to continue in that church, even though you have determined it not where you belong? And not where they really belong?

If you were able to find a solid Bible teaching church fellowship, wouldn't you be going and taking them there too?

I realise that you are working at keeping the peace and praying for your wife to have her eyes opened to the spiritual truths, just as you have. Maybe I am just saying what you already know. But, I guess I needed to say it....must be the weather.