(06-28-2010 05:25 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: (06-28-2010 04:43 PM)truthbetold Wrote: where is the first person of the trinity found in the bible? they are many many verses i can gave you, every book of the OT give reference to The father but they may not say The word father it self but God or The Lord or Almighty same thing.
The phrase "first person of the trinity" does not appear in the text. The phrase or term was conceived by man to delegate to God a particular line of thought because the Godhead is a mystery.
Quote:i do not see how your verse that you quote peove Jesus became the son in certain time if you were to read john 3;16 The term begotten in greek is genos driven from gignesthai/ginomai and genno from gennasthai and it deals not with begetting but with existence.
The implication is that Jesus became the only Begotten Son, so therefore His role as Son was to come to earth to be the Savior. There are no texts that show His Sonship before He was born a baby. Only the prophecy, which is why He was called the son of David in the OT.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelled among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
He was begotten of the Father.
G3439 - begotten
μονογενής
monogenēs
Thayer Definition:
1) single of its kind, only
1a) used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)
1b) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God
Part of Speech: adjective
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G3441 and G1096
G1096
γίνομαι
ginomai
Thayer Definition:
1) to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
2) to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen
2a) of events
3) to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage
3a) of men appearing in public
4) to be made, finished
4a) of miracles, to be performed, wrought
5) to become, be made
Part of Speech: verb
Quote:if we joh 3:17 an match it up with john 6;38-41 the son was sent to this world and Jesus says for i have came down from heaven but not to do my own will.
i tend to see jesus alwasy being the Son and that explains why the verse says the Son was sent to this world so he had to exist prior to the incarnation as being the son and jesus said i came from down from heaven not do my own will shows his relationship with The Father that he not the one and same person as in the Jesus is the father but jesus has a father.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
Joh 1:18 No man has seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.
Jesus was distinct - God, yet manifest in the flesh. The Sonship was His earthly body - a position that He took to be the pure, blameless, and sinless sacrifice for sin.
The implication is that Jesus became the only Begotten Son, so therefore His role as Son was to come to earth to be the Savior. There are no texts that show His Sonship before He was born a baby. Only the prophecy, which is why He was called the son of David in the OT
i disagree again john 17:5 Jesus own words show that he consider God his father before the world was.
Sheep again the terms deal with existences and monogenes is a relational term match John 3:16 with Genesis 17;19-21 for God Covenant would be monogenes son isaac, not with his first born ishmael and Jesus is the only son of God that would be given for the New covenant even thou we are considers sons of God to.
Jesus is the only begotten in relational terms to appear on stage as the Son of God to be the only redeemer not that this is when he gain his title as Son.
Jesus was distinct - God, yet manifest in the flesh. The Sonship was His earthly body - a position that He took to be the pure, blameless, and sinless sacrifice for sin.
let me ask you this ok how do you think God refer to jesus before his birth?
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