Oneness Pentecostals

[Vic]

Oneness Pentecostals broke from the Assemblies of God about 1917 or 1919. There have been organizational splits since then, over various doctrinal beliefs. Basic beliefs include:

* Believe that no one but Oneness Pentecostals are saved.

* Are different than other pentecostal groups.

* Believe that those who believe in the trinity concept are worshipping three separate gods, and consequently don't believe that Jesus Christ was Himself the Lord God Almighty. Oneness believers, along with groups like Jehovah's Witnesses, The Way International, and The Church of God International, completely reject the doctrine of the Trinity and claim that it is pagan in origin.

* Oneness do not believe that others believe Jesus Christ and live for Him

*Believe that tongues are the necesary sign of salvation which is like the beliefs of other pentecostal and charismatic groups.

*Deny the pre-existence of Christ

*Believe Jesus was Himself the Father, as was the Holy Spirit

*Believe that baptism in Jesus' name is necessary in order to be saved.

*Believe adherents must tithe to the pastor/church regardless, and to not do so, violates the Scriptures.

* Dress code and behavior are regimented and vary slightly by church and pastor.

I thought we would start here, discuss the points individually and Biblically and then add any further doctrine as necessary, and discuss it Biblically. So get your Bibles out people.

[Vic]

* Believe that no one but Oneness Pentecostals are saved.

Having known Jesus Christ as my Savior and Lord for over 35 years, I have confidence that I am saved and hold to the promise of eternal life because of Christ, and live by faith in Him. I am sure there are many more who would confess the same.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Romans 1:1-6 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2. (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3. Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4. And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: 5. By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: 6. Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

Romans 3:22-26 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24. Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25. Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26. To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

[sheep wrecked]

(02-19-2009 05:12 PM)Vic Wrote:  * Believe that no one but Oneness Pentecostals are saved.

Just adding a few of my favorite scripts on the subject

Rom 8:15 For you have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but you have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Gal 4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Rom 10:8 But what said it? The word is near you, even in your mouth, and in your heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believes to righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made to salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture said, Whoever believes on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich to all that call on him.
Rom 10:13 For whoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child you have known the holy scriptures, which are able to make you wise to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 16:27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled. 28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do yourself no harm: for we are all here. 29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved, and your house.

[Vic]

* Believe that those who believe in the trinity concept are worshipping three separate gods, and consequently don't believe that Jesus Christ was Himself the Lord God Almighty. Oneness believers, along with groups like Jehovah's Witnesses, The Way International, and The Church of God International, many in Hebrew Roots, completely reject the doctrine of the Trinity and claim that it is pagan in origin.

* Oneness do not believe that others believe Jesus Christ and live for Him

*Deny the pre-existence of Christ

*Believe Jesus was Himself the Father, as was the Holy Spirit

These all have to do with knowing the Jesus of the Scriptures.

There is only One God. When we speak of God being three persons, it is not as three people like we would see. God is Spirit and exists eternally in three distinct persons. Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh; the Son of God, His Only begotten Son; and the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, sent by the Father...and by Jesus.

Oneness groups do not believe that Jesus existed as the Son of God from all eternity. Since they deny that there are three eternal persons in the Godhead, the only sense in which Jesus could have existed prior to His human birth is either as God the Father or as an idea in the Father's mind.

If one peruses the Scriptures we see many places where Jesus is spoken of as existing with God, not as God the Father. That is, prior to walking on the earth. It clearly, according to the Scriptures, is not an idea in God's mind.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2. The same was in the beginning with God. 3. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: ...

An idea would not have walked the earth and been rejected by others. John 3:13, 31; 6:33, 38, 41, 46, 51, 57-58; 8:42; 13:3; 16:27-28 show that He preexisted with the Father. Also:

Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 1:15, 31 show John the Baptist referring to Christ's preexistance. Jesus also made reference to the same thing in John 6:62

Joh 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

Proverbs 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his Son's name, if thou canst tell?

Hebrews 1:5-10 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6. And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. 7. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 8. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 10. And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:...Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? ...

Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Psa 2:12 ss the Son,t he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Psa 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. 7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

1 John 1:1-3 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2. (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us) 3. That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.]/b]

Ephesians 3:9-11 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which [b]from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10. To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11. According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;

Colossians 1:12-20 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13. Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14. In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15. Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16. For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17. And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20. And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Philippians 2:5-11 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6. Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7. But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8. And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10. That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11. And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. .

And when Thomas saw that it was Jesus who stood before Him after He was risen.

Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

And the apostles.
Mat 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Taking a closer look at the Scriptures we can see the following that counters the Oneness claim that Jesus is the Father and the Son, by looking at the verses that speak of Him. There is not one where it is proclaimed that Jesus is the Father. However, we can see by a careful scrutiny of the teachings of the New Testament, that such a significant doctrine is not found, but rather, we see:
* Jesus is never once explicitly called "Father"
* He is explicitly referred to as "the Son" of God, Son of man, ect., over 200 times.
*the Father is referred to as distinct from Jesus the Son throughout the New Testament over 200 times.
*Over 50 times, Jesus the Son and the Father are compared within the same verse

Compare also to God's Words in Isaiah which also states that God is the King and Redeemer, which we know is Jesus Christ: .

Isa 44:6 Thus said the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

John 2:19-22 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21. But he spake of the temple of his body. 22. When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

Luk 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. ...
17 Therefore does my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.[b]

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as [b]Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

1Jn 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

Joh 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin. .

More on the Divinity of Christ.

Phil 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:6. Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7. But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8. And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10. That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11. And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

"He that hath seen me hath seen the Father." John 14:9

Mt 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven..

God Himself.

Luk 1:67 Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying: 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: ...76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

Genesis 22:7 -14.

Provide> to cause to be seen, make up.

John 1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand

29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30. I and my Father are one.

Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Phil 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. .

the likeness of > image of >>> in fashion > everything about a man is what Jesus was

He did not cease to be God while on earth. He was fully man and fully God. .

1Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. .

Some say Jesus denied his divinity.

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Exodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

1 Corinthians 10:4-5 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5. But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. :8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Luke 3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, 22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

1John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one..

agree means >are> ie these three are one. anti-trinitarians deny verse 7.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. .

born of water >> natural birth as a baby
Born of the Spirit is spirit. that is why the natural man cannot understand the things of God.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. .

godhead> theoetis= deity .

Isa 48:16 "Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord GOD and His Spirit Have sent Me."

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. ...15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. 29 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.
30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

[Vic]

*Believe that baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of sins is necessary in order to be saved.

Perusing the Scriptures again, we see that the New Testament speaks of:
*salvation by faith alone at least 60 times. One might ask why such an action so necessary to salvation is omitted in the Scriptures.

*"for the remission of sins," in Acts 2:38, is also used to describe John the Baptist's baptism (Luke 3:3; Mark 1:4), but no one suggests that his baptism literally washed away people's sins. The question would have to be, why would they need to later be rebaptized?ie as in Acts 19:1-6. The word "for" in the Greek can mean "with a view toward," for we know that the Jews baptized people "for" such things as "freedom," "God's justice," etc.

* In Jesus name in the Scriptures is referring to doing something in the authority of or for the sake of. It is not a magic formula or mantra. When we do things in the name of Jesus we do it for His glory. It is not unlike people claiming to come or go in Jesus name. As a representative of Him.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[Vic]

*Believe that tongues are the necesary sign of salvation which is like the beliefs of other pentecostal and charismatic groups.


For many, tongues is the foundation of their beliefs. Not being saved by God's grace, but exhibiting tongues. It becomes the evidence of the Holy Spirit and those that don't speak tongues don't have the Holy Spirit. Contrary to what Paul wrote in Corinthians, that tongues(known languages) were for a sign or witness to unbelievers, many covet tongues and claim it as a sign of being saved, and also claim it is a private prayer language, which gives an elitiist mentality. Those who don't have "the gift" of tongues are not saved, and the proof is found by them in:

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Many also take the accounts of the original receiving of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2:4; 10:46; 19:6; as the foundation of this belief. What seems to be missed is that always the persons who heard the tongues, understood they were sharing Christ and glorifying God. How would they know if they could not understand what was said?

If tongues as the evidence of the Holy Spirit and being saved were so--why do we not have verses say, We are saved by God's grace and speaking in tongues? Or even Romans 8:9 stating, Now if Any man have not the Spirit of Christ [ and speaking of tongues,] he is none of his.

Many become so caught up in "seeking the Holy Spirit" and seeking tongues, begging God to give them, what Scripturally was a gift, dispersed as God saw fit.

There is no Biblical precedent to seeking for the receiving of the Holy Spirit. All gifts are freely given by God to those who belong to Jesus Christ, in order to edify the church and tongues is the only gift of the Holy Spirit for witness to non-believers.

By begging God to give the Holy Spirit aka tongues, they are missing what the Scriptures say concerning salvation. They believe they are not saved without this event taking place in their lives.

Yet, we see in the Scriptures, salvation isn't based on our desiring to speak in tongues. We are saved completely and only through God's grace. Salvation is a free gift and there is nothing we can do to make it happen, other than believe who Jesus Christ is, and by faith we repent and turn to Him. And that faith comes from Him.

Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

There is no Scripture that upholds the idea that if one just believes enough and confesses enough, the ultimate outcome will be receiving the Holy Spirit as some sort of prize with tongues as the proof.

Throughout the New Testament we see that faith and sanctification are the result of having the Holy Spirit. They are not the basis of receiving the Holy Spirit. We have no righteousness in ourselves. It is fully and completely because of Christ, who gives us the faith, and the righeousness is His.

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

2 Thessalonians 2:13-17 13. But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14. Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. ... 16. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, 17. Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

The historical record of Acts 2 , showed the fulfillment of prophecy, and presented what took place at that time. But as events progressed, we see there is no mention of that event in the lives of believers, yet we know they were obedient to Christ and lived for Him.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Simply put, just because something occurred does not mean it always must occur or that it is a doctrine we are to adhere, when it is not presented as a doctrine. If it were a Biblical truth that ALL must seek for the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues in order to be saved, why is there no Scripture that states just that? There are many Scriptures that speak of salvation and what it is and how it is obtained. But not one that has tongues as requirement of salvation, or evidence for 'receiving" the Holy Spirit meaning one is saved.

As an aside, the apostles did not beg or plead for the Holy Spirit and the evidence of speaking in tongues. They waited as Jesus instructed. They were not seeking a sign. It is highly doubtful they knew they were going to speak in other languages in order to proclaim the truth of the Gospel to the Jews who had gathered from every nation. Nor did they continue to speak in that manner, or there would be hisorical record of it taking place.

The question is, if one entertains the belief about the Holy Spirit and tongues, where in the Acts or any other Scripture do we see individuals seeking for the Holy Spirit and expecting to receive tongues as the sign that He has come?

1 John 5:10-13 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

[Mark]

Good morning and Happy Mother's Day,

Okay, this is a tough day for me and I guess I am feeling down. Without going into a lot of details, let me just say that my father died when I was 5 and my mother never remarried so she was both parents to me and we were very very close. She passed away from Alzheimers in 2005. I kn ow it's been nearly 4 years now and I am almost 45 years old but I am missing her today. My wife's mom died in 2003 from cancer and it also affected her much like my mom's passing did me.
The reason I am putting this thread under this topic is because we both attended a Oneness Pentecostal church during the time our mothers passed away. She still attends, I have since left.
As this topic's posts states, Oneness Pentecostals believe that Acts 2:38 is the only way one can be saved. (baptised by immersion, filled with the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in tongues, etc.) Neither of our moms were saved this way. Her mother believed in Jesus as did mine. Neither attended a church regularly. When they passed away, my wife and I both struggled with the fact that they were unsaved and were not going to heaven. We sought council from out pastor and he told us that everyone has a choice in life to obey the Gospel and that God does not change his plan of salvation. I flat out asked if he believed that our mothers would not go to heaven and he said that is what the scripture says. I have noticed over the years that when a non-Oneness person asked if their loved ones would make it to heaven even though they did not get saved according to Acts 2:38, not a single Oneness pastor would give them a straight yea or neigh. It was always "we can only hope that God has mercy on them" or "we leave it to God to decide".
Anyway, since all of that, I do no believe that Acts 2:38 is the way to salvation. I still struggle a little now and then because it has been engrained in my mind. So on days like today, I begin to think of my mom and still have the question in the back of my mind. Will she be in heaven?
Sorry for the long-winded post. Just feeling a little blue today. I hope everyone has a great day.

God Bless

[LindaR]

(05-10-2009 10:29 AM)Mark Wrote:  Good morning and Happy Mother's Day,

Okay, this is a tough day for me and I guess I am feeling down. Without going into a lot of details, let me just say that my father died when I was 5 and my mother never remarried so she was both parents to me and we were very very close. She passed away from Alzheimers in 2005. I kn ow it's been nearly 4 years now and I am almost 45 years old but I am missing her today. My wife's mom died in 2003 from cancer and it also affected her much like my mom's passing did me.
The reason I am putting this thread under this topic is because we both attended a Oneness Pentecostal church during the time our mothers passed away. She still attends, I have since left.
As this topic's posts states, Oneness Pentecostals believe that Acts 2:38 is the only way one can be saved. (baptised by immersion, filled with the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in tongues, etc.) Neither of our moms were saved this way. Her mother believed in Jesus as did mine. Neither attended a church regularly. When they passed away, my wife and I both struggled with the fact that they were unsaved and were not going to heaven. We sought council from out pastor and he told us that everyone has a choice in life to obey the Gospel and that God does not change his plan of salvation. I flat out asked if he believed that our mothers would not go to heaven and he said that is what the scripture says. I have noticed over the years that when a non-Oneness person asked if their loved ones would make it to heaven even though they did not get saved according to Acts 2:38, not a single Oneness pastor would give them a straight yea or neigh. It was always "we can only hope that God has mercy on them" or "we leave it to God to decide".
Anyway, since all of that, I do no believe that Acts 2:38 is the way to salvation. I still struggle a little now and then because it has been engrained in my mind. So on days like today, I begin to think of my mom and still have the question in the back of my mind. Will she be in heaven?
Sorry for the long-winded post. Just feeling a little blue today. I hope everyone has a great day.

God Bless

Although my mother passed away in 2001 from Alzheimers, she was not saved (neither was my Dad, who passed away in 1998 from cancer). I can understand your loss and I know it must be hard, especially knowing today is Mother's Day.

Salvation, according to Scriptures, is the free gift of God's eternal blessing through the atonement of Jesus Christ. It is offered to all who will believe on Christ. It is through faith ALONE and grace ALONE, not by any admixture of grace and law, faith and works. (Ephesians 2:8-9) I'm really not that familiar with Oneness Pentecostalism...but what I do know, they add works to salvation (baptismal regeneration...in the name of Jesus only and the evidence is "speaking in tongues"). I worked with a Oneness (she called herself Apostolic Pentecostal) Pentecostal. She had very long hair, wore long skirts and no jewelry (not even a wedding band). She would continually ask me for the time...they consider watches as jewelry. She was a very nice person...but she would always try and teach me the Acts 2:38 stuff.

For assurance of your mom and mom-in-law's salvation, go to the Scriptures...not to the Oneness Pentecostal preachers. Seek out the Truth in the Scriptures, not from man's interpretation. If your moms trusted in Christ alone for salvation, be assured that they are both in heaven.

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life,[b] and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. [b](1 John 5:10-13)

God bless you Bro Mark!

[Mark]

Hello Linda,

Thank you so much for your encouragement and the scriptures. That helps a lot. I guess I was just needing a little truth to counter the thoughts that were coming against me this morning. I appreciate that very much. I hope you have a great day. Thanks again.

God bless you!

Mark

[Rose of Shushan]

Hi Mark!
thank you so much for the Mother's day greetings..I wish all the mothers here too the same!
However I am so sorry for the loss of your mum and can understand how you must be feeling today.(hugs).That Acts 2:38 thing sounds sounds so way off! I have never been baptised as an adult,knowing only the Catholic baptism when a baby.I have never spoken in tongues and I don't attend any church so I am in the same boat as your mother was.Yet according to Scripture because we both trust in Jesus, we are both saved.So be comforted dear brother that she is with Jesus now rejoicing in His love!!
I leave you with this Scripture:

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
2Co 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight)
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.