Is Jesus God, Son of God or both?

[aahavaa]

I have found that the phrase that Jesus is God means different things to different people. Modalism, oneness ,trinity etc etc. all come to mind. What do the scriptures really tell us about who Jesus was in relation to his Father.Is he God (father) himself taking on body of a man or is he Gods son who is the image of his father(much like we see sons being spitting image of their dads )
I am no theologian but the first option seems to me to be some sort of modalism and I feel more comfortable accepting the second option which is what I see when I read the scriptures.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[milordsheep]

He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;


Col 1:16 for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities--all things were created through him and for him.


Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.


Col 1:18 He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent.


Col 1:19 For in him all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell,


Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.



Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,


Phl 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,


Phl 2:7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.


Phl 2:8 And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross.


Phl 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name,


Phl 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,


Phl 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


From these two passages, among others, I come to the conclusion that Jesus is God in the flesh...the physical personification of the invisible God.

[Vic]

Great post Dan, love all those scriptures which proclaim our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I also like:
1Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

And when Thomas saw that it was Jesus who stood before Him after He was risen
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

And the apostles
Mat 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

There's so many that proclaim Him.

[sheep wrecked]

Although there are a ton of verses in the NT that say Jesus is God, one of my favorites is found in Isaiah - a beautiful prophecy of Christ ...

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

[blessedayers]

(12-10-2008 11:39 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  Although there are a ton of verses in the NT that say Jesus is God, one of my favorites is found in Isaiah - a beautiful prophecy of Christ ...

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Yes it is a beautiful passage...

When this subject comes up I also like to list the last word given us on the subject in rev. 22 for consideration.

[sheep wrecked]

(12-17-2008 11:09 AM)blessedayers Wrote:  Yes it is a beautiful passage...

When this subject comes up I also like to list the last word given us on the subject in rev. 22 for consideration.

Excellent passage showing that Jesus is God :icon_coolsign:

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Compare to God's Words in Isaiah which also states that God is the King and Redeemer, which we know is Jesus Christ:

Isa 44:6 Thus said the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

[DarkGlass1312]

The I AM passages in the gospel of John (or Lazarus, as I suspect the title is wrong) reference God telling Moses I AM THAT I AM. At the beginning of that gospel: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"
Jesus is God and the Son. It's hard to comprehend His divine attributes, so I suggest you just view Him as God.

[vicwilliam]

(01-02-2009 10:49 AM)DarkGlass1312 Wrote:  The I AM passages in the gospel of John (or Lazarus, as I suspect the title is wrong) reference God telling Moses I AM THAT I AM. At the beginning of that gospel: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"
Jesus is God and the Son. It's hard to comprehend His divine attributes, so I suggest you just view Him as God.

---

It always makes me very sad when people use one phrase "and the word was God" and build a whole Jesus is God theology. And conversely God the Father is Jesus.
Personaly I would be very,very, fearful to take God the Father's name in vain. It for me is like insulting God. And insulting our elder brother Christ, saying He is His Father.
If you use one phrase in Jn1:1 to justify "Jesus is God" how do you make any sense of v14
14 And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
When Jesus speaks in the very same gospel Jn 10:29-30
my Father, who hath given to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck out of the hand of my Father; 30 I and the Father are one.’
"I and the Father are one"
If Jesus is God (God the Father), would he not be mad, deranged to say this?
Can you read John 6:44 -66 and believe the passover - crucification chapters of , Chptrs 14-17 and truly then say "Jesus is God" Did Jesus pray to himself in Getheseme?
For those who still claim Jesus is God the Father.and not God the glorified Son perhaps a verse from Genesis may help you understand. Gen 2:23-25.
And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Was Adam Eve, or Eve Adam. Yet they were one flesh. In the beginning God created Adam. And Adam was with with Eve. And Adam and Eve were one. How one flesh.
God the Father and Christ are one in Spirit. One Spirit.
We are one with Adam of one flesh - Adam's flesh.
We at the resurrection will become one with God and His Son. How? By being made wholly of Spirit,
God the Father's Holy Spirit.

Romans 3:10-12.
vic.w the other vic.

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

[Vic]

vicwilliams
Since it is obvious you don't believe Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh---and you obviously reject or don't understand the Scriptures, allow me to share them with you.

Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

John 2:19-22 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21. But he spake of the temple of his body. 22. When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

Luk 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. ...
Joh 10:17 Therefore does my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No man takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

1Jn 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

Joh 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

Divinity of Christ

Phil 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

John 1:1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

"He that hath seen me hath seen the Father." John 14:9

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Mt 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

God himself

Luk 1:67 Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying: 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: ...76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

Genesis 22:7 -14

Provide> to cause to be seen, make up

John 1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

John 10:27-28 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand

29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30. I and my Father are one.

Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Phil 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

the likeness of > image of >>> in fashion > everything about a man is what Jesus was

He did not cease to be God while on earth. He was fully man and fully God.

1Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Some say Jesus denied his divinity

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one. Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. :8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Luke 3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, 22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

1John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

agree means >are> ie these three are one.

anti-trinitarians deny verse 7

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

born of water >> natural birth as a baby
Born of the Spirit is spirit. that is why the natural man cannot understand the things of God

Born of water and Blood>> the blood refers to the seed of life>> which comes from your Father, physically and spiritually overall it came from adam.

The blood came from adam that has a sin life.
Jesus Blood came from his Father> prophecy concerning the lineage

No one else could die for us. He did not have an earthly father. That is why he did not sin.

Jesus being only a man is a doctrine of devils. It was God himself who saved us, not a man. And that fulfills prophecy and aligns with the OT

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

godhead> theoetis= deity

Isa 48:16 "Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord GOD and His Spirit Have sent Me."

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Proverbs 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his Son's name, if thou canst tell?

Exodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even forever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. ...15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. 29 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.
30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

Here's some final thoughts on this:

2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Galatians 1:6-10 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 10. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.