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What is God's Learning Channel?
07-07-2009, 10:44 PM
Post: #21
RE: What is God's Learning Channel?
(07-07-2009 10:01 AM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  [quote='grafted' pid='2991' dateline='1246956035']

Why can't it lead someone to Christ, is he limited?
There are plenty of bad experiences that lead people to Christ, neither of those moments or events being Christian themselves in nature.
How does a person come from Satanism or Witchcraft to Christ?

Quote:Christ is not limited. The Scriptures tell us that faith and salvation come through the Word of God - which is the true Gospel. A person does not come to Christ "through" satanism or witchcraft". They find Christ "outside" of it. Would you use the practices of satanism or witchcraft to preach the Gospel?

God said that deception causes people to "fall away" from the Gospel. It does NOT lead people to Him. HRM is deception. It is leading people away from Christ into denying Him and converting to Judaism. HRM reject Christs because it rejects the New Covenant.

Did I ever state that it wasn't through the word of God that brought people to him, or did I state that people from bad practices have bad experiences that make them turn in that direction?


Quote:I have been bounced from the HRM Beit HaDerek(sp) room before, and they remove the dots after the initial teaching, usually just before they start the 5 minute update, or as I have openly called it in there, the KOOLAID moment.

Quote:I am curious why you bother. Apparently you believe that HRM can preach the Gospel, so why warn anyone of the false teachings?Foot

Since you are missing totally what I am even talking about, and have appointed yourself my judge, would you care to appoint a sentence as well?

Mat 10:34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
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07-08-2009, 07:09 AM
Post: #22
RE: What is God's Learning Channel?

I have been reading a few of those links and had to honestly giggle over the mention of FFOZ. Earlier this year a local HRM gave me the hard sell, including pointing to his large library of books on the subject, and the FFOZ courses; when someone tries to hard-sell me anything instant alarm bells start going off.

I spoke with him again during this Spring and his first words were "Are you keeping Torah", "NO".... haven't heard from him since; color me amused.

Mat 10:34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
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07-08-2009, 12:26 PM
Post: #23
RE: What is God's Learning Channel?
(07-07-2009 09:57 PM)Emjesown Wrote:  I hear how it almost and in some cases did detroy them spiritually and emotionally.


May i be honest here for a moment.

Why do i keep trying to defend messianics?
I do realise itts a leftover from the brainwash, but i can t get rif of the last chain (or 2 mabey)
I hate it but i can loos myself totally from it.
Despite i read alot of theyre false teachings and errors, a part of me still
believes we have to back to the roots of our faith.
Not back to Moses, don t get me wrong.
I find it dfficult to decie how far back i must go.
I call it back to before rcc.
I am really troubled , the brainwash i got ,was strong it seems.

EMJE

Dancegirl2 Hi Emje,

Glad you shared where you are at. Friend

Emje, being back to the roots of our faith is simply believing totally and completely that it is about Jesus Christ. About a relationship with Him. About serving Him, and being obedient to Him. That obedience is found within the NT specifically. Because it fufilled the old. Reading

The carrot of some special thing held out by HR, or some special practice or some special knowledge which is based in gnostic concepts--is not what it's about. The simplicity of the gospel Emje.6788

And the promise of understanding for all who belong to Christ. Things which we are 'freely given' by God Himself.
47b20s0

1 Corinthians 2:9-16 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 10. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Emje, it's about total dependence on God to give us the understanding, the faith and the desire to run the race. It is not about the outward appearance or rituals and traditions advocated by HR/messianics. No

Every single one of us is called out from the things of the world--culture, possessions, traditions etc. It is fully about Him, and serving Him and having our whole being focused on that. Loving Him with all our hearts, minds and souls--our very being. Smiley-happy065

Thats the things of Christ--the things we read in the NT and OT. That's the 'root' of our faith. Christ. We don't need all these extra trappings. Your defense of messianics/hr knowing the error, cannot bring honor to Christ. You know that though, which is why you struggle. Th_57cb9f3e

When we are free in Christ, Emje, we are free indeed.
1500435

Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Heb 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Heb 12:12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
Heb 12:13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.



Smiley-happy093

Vic
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3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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07-08-2009, 01:07 PM
Post: #24
RE: What is God's Learning Channel?
(07-08-2009 12:26 PM)Vic Wrote:  [quote='Emjesown' pid='3006' dateline='1247018234']
I hear how it almost and in some cases did detroy them spiritually and emotionally.


May i be honest here for a moment.

Why do i keep trying to defend messianics?
I do realise itts a leftover from the brainwash, but i can t get rif of the last chain (or 2 mabey)
I hate it but i can loos myself totally from it.
Despite i read alot of theyre false teachings and errors, a part of me still
believes we have to back to the roots of our faith.
Not back to Moses, don t get me wrong.
I find it dfficult to decie how far back i must go.
I call it back to before rcc.
I am really troubled , the brainwash i got ,was strong it seems.

EMJE

Hi EMJE,

Thank you for sharing your struggle and ditto to everything Vic said.

You listened to man's words and were brainwashed (in your words). The only thing that can wash our brainwashed mind is God's Words.

You only need to go as far back as the Root of Jesse. Go back to Him and you will be fine.

Isa 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Rom 15:12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

EMJE,

The only thing I know is to give God's Word. It is truly the lamp to our feet and light to our path. Psalm 119:105 Everything else is darkness.

His Word leads us out of darkness. Rom 15:12b says "in Him shall the Gentiles trust."

I have friends that have been trying to get me to obey the "Royal Law" (James), observe "Biblical Feasts" and the Sabbath.

But my Bible says that my Lord Jesus is my continual "Feast" and He is my Sabbath.

I am sure your Bible says the same thing. Smile

1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Pro 15:15 All the days of the afflicted are evil: but he that is of a merry heart hath a continual feast. (We have a merry heart, BECAUSE we have a continual FEAST)

Let Him be your Feast and your Sabbath (Rest).

Jer 12:5 If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? and if in the land of peace, wherein thou trustedst, they wearied thee, then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan?
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07-08-2009, 11:27 PM
Post: #25
RE: What is God's Learning Channel?
(07-07-2009 10:44 PM)grafted Wrote:  Did I ever state that it wasn't through the word of God that brought people to him, or did I state that people from bad practices have bad experiences that make them turn in that direction?

What you implied is that false teaching can bring people to Christ. It can't.


Quote:Since you are missing totally what I am even talking about, and have appointed yourself my judge, would you care to appoint a sentence as well?

grafted, you defend God's channel as a means for people to come to Christ through Messianic teachers no matter that they teach false doctrine. Then you state that you got on paltalk and confronted Chumney on his false doctrine, but it's ok for him to go on God's Channel and preach the same stuff and get people to come to Christ through the same false teachings. Which is it? You are being double minded. Snapoutofit
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07-09-2009, 01:08 AM
Post: #26
RE: What is God's Learning Channel?
(07-08-2009 11:27 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  [quote='grafted' pid='3007' dateline='1247021042']

Did I ever state that it wasn't through the word of God that brought people to him, or did I state that people from bad practices have bad experiences that make them turn in that direction?

What you implied is that false teaching can bring people to Christ. It can't.

I spelled out clearly what I implied just above your response.

Quote:Since you are missing totally what I am even talking about, and have appointed yourself my judge, would you care to appoint a sentence as well?

Quote:grafted, you defend God's channel as a means for people to come to Christ through Messianic teachers no matter that they teach false doctrine. Then you state that you got on paltalk and confronted Chumney on his false doctrine, but it's ok for him to go on God's Channel and preach the same stuff and get people to come to Christ through the same false teachings. Which is it? You are being double minded. Snapoutofit

Yes I defend GLC as a medium for which people are turned to Christ. It happens on a daily basis, globally, and it isn't the only medium out there, but because it maintains an eclectic selection of programmers and guest you believe it therefor must be bad? Why don't you let God be the judge of that, it is his place.

I am by no means, shade, or color a sycophant of GLC, and openly question a few of their guest, their backgrounds, and their message--which is Why I posted a list of a few of their Messi/HRM programmers here (Cortez, Scott, Chumney, Booker, etc,) so that not only myself but others could learn about them, whether their message was good or not.

Like Eddie's (5 minute update, aka KOOLAID hour,) I have entertained myself on occasion with going in his room to directly confront him over preaching fear and false doctrine, i.e. "this is the worst economic situation America has been in, and believers need to prepare for the collapse of the system". Anyone with any education knows better, and finds what he states to be not only a direct lie, but also the fevor of which people will blindly follow him to be disturbing.
I've called him out in his room several times, and on his first live GLC appearance I had a prayer partner hand Tommy a direct message with my name all over it, challenging him to defend his fear speech, with a summary of the historical evidence that directly refuted. She didn't read it to him on air, but I haven't heard him go down the same path since.
No Sheep, this isn't calling him to the carpet for his HRM doctrine, but as previously mentioned, and mentioned again, his 5 minute update nonsense.
Someone more learned than me on the matter might be called, or lead to call him to the carpet for his HRM message; i've seen a few due it in the past, but my main prompting was to go after him for preaching falsehood and fear based upon the economical situation, a fear he was using to further his own personal cause = evil.

As for people coming to, being brought to, lead to, Christ because of a bad experience with anything, everything, nothing, something, then I will not question it, nor hold it against them. They made it to Christ, the past is gone, and neither you or I are fit to be their judge.

There is no double mindedness in what I've stated. There are a few points which brought up a personal curiosity, for which Vic provided nice links for, and which I've read part of them with a mix of reflective humor and shocked surprise.

Mat 10:34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
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07-09-2009, 02:00 PM
Post: #27
RE: What is God's Learning Channel?
Quote:No Sheep, this isn't calling him to the carpet for his HRM doctrine, but as previously mentioned, and mentioned again, his 5 minute update nonsense.
Someone more learned than me on the matter might be called, or lead to call him to the carpet for his HRM message; i've seen a few due it in the past, but my main prompting was to go after him for preaching falsehood and fear based upon the economical situation, a fear he was using to further his own personal cause = evil.

Grafted,
then your issue with Eddie is not his doctrine but his scaremongering updates, is that it?



Quote:Why do i keep trying to defend messianics?
I do realise itts a leftover from the brainwash, but i can t get rif of the last chain (or 2 mabey)
I hate it but i can loos myself totally from it.
Despite i read alot of theyre false teachings and errors, a part of me still
believes we have to back to the roots of our faith.
Not back to Moses, don t get me wrong.
I find it dfficult to decie how far back i must go.
I call it back to before rcc.
I am really troubled , the brainwash i got ,was strong it seems.

Emje, you only need go as far back as Jesus Christ.To go back to OT practices is to go back to a defunct covenant and from what I see here, you are aware of the differences.
In my experiences in MJ and Hebrew roots not once have I heard the stories and experiences of the ones that went before us in the OT being given practical spiritual application in our lives. It has all been about getting us to observe rituals and rabbinic concepts under the guise of observing God's commandments. It has all been about the letter of the law, although when questioned they arent observing that either for the most part.
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07-10-2009, 12:06 AM
Post: #28
RE: What is God's Learning Channel?
(07-09-2009 02:00 PM)Rose of Shushan Wrote:  
Quote:No Sheep, this isn't calling him to the carpet for his HRM doctrine, but as previously mentioned, and mentioned again, his 5 minute update nonsense.
Someone more learned than me on the matter might be called, or lead to call him to the carpet for his HRM message; i've seen a few due it in the past, but my main prompting was to go after him for preaching falsehood and fear based upon the economical situation, a fear he was using to further his own personal cause = evil.

Grafted,
then your issue with Eddie is not his doctrine but his scaremongering updates, is that it?

[/color][/b]

Correct, I am not qualified nor have felt called to nor compelled to go against his HRM speeches; I am not qualified at this time for that task, though others are. His economical scare tactics I was qualified to go after him, and did. He didn't reply to my email about his error, (tried to keep it biblical,) and so I went out openly against him.

Mat 10:34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
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07-10-2009, 11:48 AM
Post: #29
RE: What is God's Learning Channel?
(07-10-2009 12:06 AM)grafted Wrote:  
(07-09-2009 02:00 PM)Rose of Shushan Wrote:  
Quote:No Sheep, this isn't calling him to the carpet for his HRM doctrine, but as previously mentioned, and mentioned again, his 5 minute update nonsense.
Someone more learned than me on the matter might be called, or lead to call him to the carpet for his HRM message; i've seen a few due it in the past, but my main prompting was to go after him for preaching falsehood and fear based upon the economical situation, a fear he was using to further his own personal cause = evil.

Grafted,
then your issue with Eddie is not his doctrine but his scaremongering updates, is that it?

[/color][/b]

Correct, I am not qualified nor have felt called to nor compelled to go against his HRM speeches; I am not qualified at this time for that task, though others are. His economical scare tactics I was qualified to go after him, and did. He didn't reply to my email about his error, (tried to keep it biblical,) and so I went out openly against him.

I think what you are missing grafted, is that we are qualified concerning Hebrew Roots teachings and have easily shown his and the other HR teachers, kabbalistic, talmudic, two house, another gospel and another Jesus and other contrary to Scripture beliefs. 7863

You don't seem to either grasp that or don't believe we know anything about it. Th_emotionsshrug

Trust me. We do. We know the arguments and can, and have refuted them all over this forum, and my website and Sheep's blog. 5522

It seems to me that if you don't feel qualified to refute those HR teachings, and don't understand why they are wrong, the prudent and Biblical thing to do would be not to stand and promote them as presenting the gospel or as sound, but actually listen to what is being said to you concerning the errors of the teachings. Both factually and scripturally. Th_ththink

I've spent 10 years learning about HR and them, and refuting it, grafted. It's not of Christ.
15249

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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07-10-2009, 04:16 PM
Post: #30
RE: What is God's Learning Channel?
I am not doubting you, but I would like to see more sources showing the same. If you can provide them that would excellent, and would shorten my Google searching.

Mat 10:34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
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