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Christian Identity
07-26-2009, 12:30 AM (This post was last modified: 07-26-2009 11:23 PM by sheep wrecked.)
Post: #1
Christian Identity
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*********************

I understand anti-semitism but what is meant by
"Christian Identity"

Barley
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07-26-2009, 11:18 PM (This post was last modified: 07-26-2009 11:24 PM by sheep wrecked.)
Post: #2
RE: Christian Identity
This is from Vic's website - explaining what Christian Identity is:

The full article can be seen here:
http://www.seekgod.ca/britisrael.htm

Quote:British Israelism spawned the Christian Identity movement, which was incorporated in Los Angeles in 1948. Spawned from it are the Posse Comitatus, Aryan Nations, The Christian Patriot branch, The Committee of the States, the Unorganized Militia and other white supremacy swill.

“…Wesley Swift's Church of Jesus Christ Christian was initially a racist sect which became Christian Identity. The central belief in Identity doctrine is the existence of two races on earth: a godly white race descended from Adam and a satanic race fathered by Satan. Swift, a Klan leader and preacher at Amy Semple McPherson's Foursquare Church in Los Angles, was never able to make much of a success out of his doctrine, but it attracted several people who became central to what was later named "Christian Identity": San Jacinto Capt, William Potter Gale and Richard Girnt Butler."

"Capt was a California Klan leader and a believer in British Israelism, a doctrine which holds that the Israelites of the Bible are not the Jews, but rather Aryan/Anglo-Saxons. Gale was a stock-broker and former Army officer who briefly served on Gen. MacArthur's staff in the Philippines. Gale in turn recruited Butler to Swift's church during the 1950's. In 1970, Swift died, triggering a dispute between Gale and Butler. Ultimately, Butler assumed control and moved the church to Idaho, where he renamed it Aryan Nations - Church of Jesus Christ Christian.” 69.

Along with Charles Parham, William Branham, reportedly also KKK, taught the “two seed” theory. "Now remember, Satan's son was Cain..." "Now remember that Eve got pregnant by Satan, and in the same day..." 70.

The "two seed" theory can be found in a number of variations, however it, “…is the central tenet of Identity doctrine and the basic justification for Christian Patriots' racism and anti-Semitism. The essence of the "two seed" theory is that there are two races on earth: one godly and one satanic.”

“According to the racist and anti-Semitic "two seed" theory, the white "Adamic" peoples descended from the union of Adam and Eve. But there was also another race beginning with Cain whose father was not Adam, but Satan -- who mated with Eve in the guise of a serpent. The descendants of Cain became known as the Jews. The Adamic peoples became the Aryans or Anglo-Saxons. The Pre-Adamic (non-white) races were not human at all, but descendants of the "beasts of the fields" described in Genesis, without souls and no more than cattle in the eyes of their Aryan betters. All three races could interbreed, but the non-Adamic blood acted like a poison to exterminate the Aryan race. In the eyes of white supremacists, race-mixing became a Satanic plot to exterminate God's chosen people, the white race.”

“By the "two seed" theory, Jesus was not a Jew, but an Aryan. The Adamic (Aryan) people were the lost tribes of Israel, fled to northern Europe and later became the Christian nations. There are many corollaries to the "two seed" theory which provide justification for racists to claim God's favor…”71

Obviously these teachings are totally against the Word of God. From the Pamphlet, Signs of the Supernatural, a quote from a1961 Voice, the magazine of the Full Gospel Business Men International, which said, “…'In Bible Days, there were men of God who were Prophets and Seers. But in all the Sacred records, none of these had a greater ministry than that of William Branham.”

We are not suggesting that Pentecostals, Charismatics or any of the other groups we've mentioned in general are in agreement with these false teachings.

We must ask, however, How could those in leadership in the founding Pentecostal, Charismatic and Full Gospel Business Men movements, those mentioned in “Shepherds in Disguise,” and those throughout these articles approve of such as this? Were or are they in agreement? How can these be embraced by any who love the Lord Jesus Christ? How can any embrace the Roots and subsequent movements of any of these groups that have been built on the teachings of those discussed ? How can there be a unity of all denominations based on these foundations and beliefs? This cannot be what Paul spoke of in

1 Corinthians 1:10

“Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.”

The false teachings mentioned above and the failure to love one another is evident. Our evaluation must be based on the Word of God. Jesus’ own words are clear as to what it means if someone does not keep His Words or love “ his brother.”

1 John 3:10-11

“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.”

Jesus said in John 13: 34-35 “A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.”

Jesus said in John 15:14 “Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.”

There is no Scripture that would allow us to embrace or build on the aforementioned foundations of heresy. Many obviously will have no idea of the facts of Charles Parham, British Israelism and so on. However, there are those who appear to have obscured these facts.

Psalm 97:10 “Ye that love the Lord, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked.”
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07-30-2009, 10:22 PM
Post: #3
RE: Christian Identity
If someone asked me about Christian identity I would have referenced the new person I am/we are in the process of becoming more like Christ. You know, new creature – new identity. Now I see it can mean something drastically different, bitter and mean-spirited.

There are so many Christian-sounding labels to identify various fringe groups or what I would consider people with extremist doctrines I’m feeling cautious about commenting on much. I was briefly on a site I quickly considered to be a picture of phariseeism – opinionated and judgmental, yet I initially thought we had beliefs in common. It was my first so-called Christian forum experience. What an eye-opener that was! I do, however, believe it was a reminder to not neglect the “basics”:

If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God...
Romans 8:16
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07-31-2009, 08:50 AM
Post: #4
RE: Christian Identity
(07-30-2009 10:22 PM)Izzy Wrote:  If someone asked me about Christian identity I would have referenced the new person I am/we are in the process of becoming more like Christ. You know, new creature – new identity. Now I see it can mean something drastically different, bitter and mean-spirited.

There are so many Christian-sounding labels to identify various fringe groups or what I would consider people with extremist doctrines I’m feeling cautious about commenting on much. I was briefly on a site I quickly considered to be a picture of phariseeism – opinionated and judgmental, yet I initially thought we had beliefs in common. It was my first so-called Christian forum experience. What an eye-opener that was! I do, however, believe it was a reminder to not neglect the “basics”:

If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

Hi Izzy,

It can be really disheartening to see all the things under the label of Christian that are not of Christ. And even have the name of Jesus, and not of Christ. My first forum experience was a also an eye opener and disaster all at once. It made me realise how easily people can masquerade as being sound in the faith. Yet, even if it takes some time, it the fruit always shows. 10171

I find the christian identity sickening, aside from the obvious reasons, in that there are those who say, 'see, look at those christians', when they don't belong to Christ at all. To have the hate for others they have, says they don't love God. No

Anyway, glad you were able to get logged on again and post.
Icon_tea

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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11-07-2009, 02:07 PM
Post: #5
RE: Christian Identity
(07-31-2009 08:50 AM)Vic Wrote:  
(07-30-2009 10:22 PM)Izzy Wrote:  If someone asked me about Christian identity I would have referenced the new person I am/we are in the process of becoming more like Christ. You know, new creature – new identity. Now I see it can mean something drastically different, bitter and mean-spirited.

There are so many Christian-sounding labels to identify various fringe groups or what I would consider people with extremist doctrines I’m feeling cautious about commenting on much. I was briefly on a site I quickly considered to be a picture of phariseeism – opinionated and judgmental, yet I initially thought we had beliefs in common. It was my first so-called Christian forum experience. What an eye-opener that was! I do, however, believe it was a reminder to not neglect the “basics”:

If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

Hi Izzy,

It can be really disheartening to see all the things under the label of Christian that are not of Christ. And even have the name of Jesus, and not of Christ. My first forum experience was a also an eye opener and disaster all at once. It made me realise how easily people can masquerade as being sound in the faith. Yet, even if it takes some time, it the fruit always shows. 10171

I find the christian identity sickening, aside from the obvious reasons, in that there are those who say, 'see, look at those christians', when they don't belong to Christ at all. To have the hate for others they have, says they don't love God. No

Anyway, glad you were able to get logged on again and post.
Icon_tea

Thanks Izzy and thanks Vicki,

This is another interesting topic. I would have to say that I agree with what you stated here Vic. The Lord has been ministering to me for some time about the title "Christian". At one point the Lord actually told me to stop calling myself a Christian and stop asking others if they were Christians. He also told me to start asking people if they love Jesus. That's where I got that question and why I ask it. As you can probably imagine, in the many times I have asked that question, "Do you love Jesus?", I have heard many various answers from professing Christians. Answers like: I've been going to such and such church for 20 years. or, My dad has been a deacon in such and such church for as long as I can remember. or even, I accepted Jesus when I was 12 years old. Often my response is, "Yes, but do you love Jesus?" I have even met many professing Christians that will not say they love Jesus and they sometimes get angry that I ask and repeat my question. Then there are sometimes when I get that wonderful and joyful response, "yes, I love Jesus with all my heart."

I have also asked the Lord how He wants me to answer when asked if I am a Christian, or who I am in Christ. He has given me several different response to voice, like: I'm God's servant. or, I'm a lover of Jesus. or simply, I love Jesus.

I would have to agree that I find it a bit sickening myself, that a true lover of Jesus Christ cannot call his or herself a Christian without being associated with those professing Christians that hate their neighbors. It is as though they have made the word Christian a dirty word to many. When in truth, Christ Himself is a most wonderful word and name.

Love ya,
Chris
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11-26-2009, 08:46 PM
Post: #6
RE: Christian Identity
Intriguingly, at least one sect of the Ku Klux Klan (Christian Identity) uses the name "YAHshua" for their messiah. They claim "Yahshua" is Jesus Christ. "Yahshua" isn't the Jesus Christ of the Bible. There are a gazillion articles on this site that prove that "YAHshua" is not the name of Jesus Christ.

http://www DOT kkkk DOT net/doctrinalstatements.htm I didn't want to post a direct link to a Klan site on this site. Yuk

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11-26-2009, 11:11 PM
Post: #7
RE: Christian Identity
(11-26-2009 08:46 PM)YYZ Skinhead Wrote:  Intriguingly, at least one sect of the Ku Klux Klan (Christian Identity) uses the name "YAHshua" for their messiah. They claim "Yahshua" is Jesus Christ. "Yahshua" isn't the Jesus Christ of the Bible. There are a gazillion articles on this site that prove that "YAHshua" is not the name of Jesus Christ.

http://www DOT kkkk DOT net/doctrinalstatements.htm I didn't want to post a direct link to a Klan site on this site. Yuk

Well it seems like the question I should naturally ask you is, By what name do you use when you're referring to Jesus Christ?

Whether I say "Jesus", "YaShua" or "Yeshua", in my mind and heart I am referring to one Lord and savior, and His name is Jesus Christ. Even if I call Him friend, I'm just sure that Jesus Christ knows that I am talking about Him, or if I call Him my brother, I'm just sure that Jesus still knows that I am still talking about Him. Bottom line, however I spell His name or speak it, He always knows what is in my heart and mind, and that I am not talking about some pagan god, don't ya think.

Love ya,
Chris
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11-27-2009, 10:01 AM
Post: #8
RE: Christian Identity
(11-26-2009 11:11 PM)rancherforChrist Wrote:  
(11-26-2009 08:46 PM)YYZ Skinhead Wrote:  Intriguingly, at least one sect of the Ku Klux Klan (Christian Identity) uses the name "YAHshua" for their messiah. They claim "Yahshua" is Jesus Christ. "Yahshua" isn't the Jesus Christ of the Bible. There are a gazillion articles on this site that prove that "YAHshua" is not the name of Jesus Christ.

http://www DOT kkkk DOT net/doctrinalstatements.htm I didn't want to post a direct link to a Klan site on this site. Yuk

Well it seems like the question I should naturally ask you is, By what name do you use when you're referring to Jesus Christ?

Whether I say "Jesus", "YaShua" or "Yeshua", in my mind and heart I am referring to one Lord and savior, and His name is Jesus Christ. Even if I call Him friend, I'm just sure that Jesus Christ knows that I am talking about Him, or if I call Him my brother, I'm just sure that Jesus still knows that I am still talking about Him. Bottom line, however I spell His name or speak it, He always knows what is in my heart and mind, and that I am not talking about some pagan god, don't ya think.

Love ya,
Chris

Chris, the word Yahshua or yashua--are made up names. Those who use them invariably reject the Jesus of the Bible for another Jesus and another gospel. Many also claim it is the 'real' name for Jesus, when it is not--and is not found in the Scriptures anywhere--although that is also one of many claims. Yeshua is the actual Hebrew. The concept of calling Jesus by whatever you can come up with is not correct. There is a name that every knee will bow to, under the heavens and earth and in English, that is Jesus.

Further, it seems a little less than honoring to refer to Jesus as 'brother'. Some would say that is accurate, but how He views us is one thing and how we are to view Him comes from understanding who He is.

He is Almighty God manifest in the flesh- the Son of God; He is Lord of lords and King of kings...He is divine..not just a bro'--lower case, or friend, lower case. Do you believe Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh, Chris?


Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. 6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS....

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


Btw, I am a little behind in answering your other posts, but will be answering.

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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11-27-2009, 02:24 PM (This post was last modified: 11-27-2009 02:27 PM by rancherforChrist.)
Post: #9
RE: Christian Identity
Chris, the word Yahshua or yashua--are made up names. Those who use them invariably reject the Jesus of the Bible for another Jesus and another gospel. Many also claim it is the 'real' name for Jesus, when it is not--and is not found in the Scriptures anywhere--although that is also one of many claims. Yeshua is the actual Hebrew. The concept of calling Jesus by whatever you can come up with is not correct. There is a name that every knee will bow to, under the heavens and earth and in English, that is Jesus.

Further, it seems a little less than honoring to refer to Jesus as 'brother'. Some would say that is accurate, but how He views us is one thing and how we are to view Him comes from understanding who He is.

He is Almighty God manifest in the flesh- the Son of God; He is Lord of lords and King of kings...He is divine..not just a bro'--lower case, or friend, lower case. Do you believe Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh, Chris?


Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. 6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS....

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


Btw, I am a little behind in answering your other posts, but will be answering.
[/quote]

Hi Vicki,

I'm not trying to minimize or diminish God's greatness nor His Son Jesus. What I am trying to do is minimize the legalism of this and other issues.

Does it minimize you by calling you by a made up name like Vic? Or does it diminish or lessen your value as a person for me to call you sister. I understand that it might in your eyes or the eyes of others, but to me, it doesn't change that I love and care about you. If you were to tell me that you didn't want to be called Vic anymore or that you didn't want to be called sister anymore, then I would stop. Jesus hasn't told me to stop calling Him Yashua, or Yeshua or Jesus or even brother. If He does, then I will stop. My point is, not to get legalistic about the names of God or about anything else. A name, what I or anyone calls Him is not for anyone else to say. My relationship with the Lord is just, my relationship with the Lord. He also has a voice, and He already has all Liberty to say whatever He wants to me, including, "don't this, or don't say that".

A few years ago I had a sister in Christ speak a profound word from the Lord to me. She said, "Chris, whose walk is this?" I said, "It's my walk." She said, "Exactly", and then she turned and walked away.

God is still exalted in my heart, and I still praise Him with mouth, and I still worship Him with my life. That doesn't change for me because of what someone else believes about a name. Think about what you said about it feeling less honoring to call Jesus "brother". Isn't it just possible that I feel comfortable enough in my relationship with Jesus to call Him brother? I mean, He did say that He is my brother and that I am joint heir with Him. Haven't you ever called the Father "Daddy", and then felt the love and warmth of His embrace because He liked it? I have, and I'm not going to change anything about my relationship with God because it doesn't feel ok to someone else or because they don't believe the same things I do. Your walk with the Lord is your walk with the Lord, and my walk is my walk.

I appreciate your sharing, because I really do like your input. I've noticed that many people make this walk about one person being right and another wrong. I don't view it that way. I believe that each person that truly loves the Lord, is at a particular place in their walk with Him. We all grow and mature at a different rate. I'm not going to try to fit someone else into any mold. The Lord has been teaching me to try to encourage and love each one, right where they are. I'll admit that I still don't do a perfect job at that, but I do try consistently. Likewise, I'm not going to be pressed into someone else's mold of what my relationship with God is supposed to look like.

I hope that all makes sense to you. Thanks for sharing.

Love ya,
Chris
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11-27-2009, 04:07 PM (This post was last modified: 11-27-2009 04:27 PM by Mary.)
Post: #10
RE: Christian Identity
"I'm not trying to minimize or diminish God's greatness nor His Son Jesus. What I am trying to do is minimize the legalism of this and other issues."

Do you mean then that anything that prescribes order, respect and honour for God is legalism?
Over the years I have come to understand that people who level the accusation of Legalism at others actually define legalism as: "if it stops me from doing what I want to do, it's legalism".

Phillipians 2: 9 - 12
"Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."
"Does it minimize you by calling you by a made up name like Vic? Or does it diminish or lessen your value as a person for me to call you sister."

I can't speak for Vic, but for myself. My screen name is not my real name (unlike Vic) but that is my choice, for privacy, and protection. Sister is a very honourable term, and I feel very uncomfortable to be called sister by someone who does not know me, or to call someone sister who I do not know. I cannot instantly call any Christian woman I meet "sister" - I first get to know them and they get to know me, and even then it is not a word I would toss out casually or use in a general way, and I feel very uneasy to have someone call me sister when we do not even know each other. If I feel that my name and other's names are to be honoured, how much more the name of Jesus Christ and God, the Father? He is the King, He is Lord. In His presence I feel unable to speak at all, let alone toss out casual or made up names of my choosing.

Phillipians 4:23 "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen."
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