Did God create evil?

[sheep wrecked]

I have heard a lot of discussion on this point. Some say that evil in this verse does not mean really mean "evil". What do you think?

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

[Mary]

(02-07-2009 04:52 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  I have heard a lot of discussion on this point. Some say that evil in this verse does not mean really mean "evil". What do you think?

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

I would like to know how to answer this. I will have a good look at Isaiah.

My atheist husband says that if God exists He is evil. People I know who have children with severe disability and illness, whose lives are difficult and miserable beyond bearing say how could a good God exist who allows this terrible life for me and my child?

This I do know - God is greater than evil and He will destroy evil.

[sheep wrecked]

(08-30-2009 02:39 AM)Mary Wrote:  

(02-07-2009 04:52 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  I have heard a lot of discussion on this point. Some say that evil in this verse does not mean really mean "evil". What do you think?

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

I would like to know how to answer this. I will have a good look at Isaiah.

My atheist husband says that if God exists He is evil. People I know who have children with severe disability and illness, whose lives are difficult and miserable beyond bearing say how could a good God exist who allows this terrible life for me and my child?

This I do know - God is greater than evil and He will destroy evil.

Yes, God is greater than evil and will destroy it eventually. That is a very good point

God created the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, which I think shows that He created evil for His purpose. Of course our human minds cannot understand why He would do this, but His ways are higher, for sure

Here is an interesting verse:

Exo 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

We have severely disabled kids as well. I have never viewed it as "unbearable" or that we all have a terrible life. The boys are happy and are oblivious to their disabilities. We live day to day in the grace and mercy of God. He sees us through every minute of every day. For those who do suffer, it is part of life. It is not God's fault, but man's sin that has caused all the pain and suffering in the world.

For those who blame God for not rescuing, not saving, not delivering those in such tragic circumstances, I have often asked - why should He? Why do we expect God to rescue us? He gave us so much in Christ and this world is for such a short time. Such a marvelous, awesome gift! To belong to Him is a joy, in spite of trials and pain, for we know that eternity will be without tears in Christ.

Suffering is just part of life. The Bible is full of people who suffered, yet they gave glory to God. I think a trouble free life would be a curse, for our dependence on God would never be tested. How faithful He is in those times when we feel all alone and in pain. The Psalms that David wrote are such a beautiful testimony of praise to God in spite of persecution that David went through. God is good, even in the bad times.

Joh 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

[Dredge]

Yes, but not directly. In Genesis 1 GOD saw all that He had created was good. In Genesis 3 evil entered creation with the temptation of mankind and their choice to disbelieve GOD. By giving mankind a choice GOD indirectly created evil which brought suffering and death into creation.

Other scripture where GOD gives mankind a choice:

Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live.

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

The king of Tyrus, in following scripture, is said to be referring to Satan because of the statement; Thou hast been in Eden the garden of GOD. This could be another indirect creation of evil by GOD. Verse 15 states he was created. Could this have happened between Genesis 1 and 3?

Ezekiel 28:12-19 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Since GOD created all there is;

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

and evil exists, the only conclusion would be GOD created evil.

[Izzy]

(08-30-2009 05:36 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  [quote='Mary' pid='3979' dateline='1251614382']
[quote='sheep wrecked' pid='1045' dateline='1234039974']
I have heard a lot of discussion on this point. Some say that evil in this verse does not mean really mean "evil". What do you think?


For those who blame God for not rescuing, not saving, not delivering those in such tragic circumstances, I have often asked - why should He? Why do we expect God to rescue us? He gave us so much in Christ and this world is for such a short time. Such a marvelous, awesome gift! To belong to Him is a joy, in spite of trials and pain, for we know that eternity will be without tears in Christ.

Suffering is just part of life. The Bible is full of people who suffered, yet they gave glory to God. I think a trouble free life would be a curse, for our dependence on God would never be tested. How faithful He is in those times when we feel all alone and in pain. The Psalms that David wrote are such a beautiful testimony of praise to God in spite of persecution that David went through. God is good, even in the bad times.
[/b][/color]
Joh 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

You have spoken alot of truth right here.

[YYZ Skinhead]

I assumed Lucifer created evil when he tried to play God.

[allenborder]

God created the evil, It's my point of view. You can see the after all god is god. He win against the all evil activity. I am strongly believe that god created the evil otherwise Evil can destroy the earth.

[Emjesown]

I am strongly believe that god created the evil otherwise Evil can destroy the earth.

You mean He created evil, THEREFORE He can keep it under controle?
And when the devil created it He could not?

I to have a problem with: I created evil, hard to understand.

When people experience problems, setbacks and misery they often say:"why me God"?
I say then: "Why not you"?
No one gets only blessings
I think sometimes evil and awfull things happening are the consequences of wrong choises, but sickness end dead are the consequences of sin that came into the world.

Emje

[Rose of Shushan]

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Since this is the verse we are discussing I wanted to share my own opinion on how I see this verse.
If we go back to the beginning of the chapter we see that God was addressing Cyrus

Isa 45:1 Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

As far as I know Zoroastrianism was the religion that Cyrus may have believed in.In that religion they believed that good and evil had distinct sources.Put very simply,they seemed to believe in two gods one which was supremely good and the other evil.The god of light Ahura Mazda was seen as supremely good and the god of evil, Ahraman was also known as the god of darkness.Seems to me that God through Isaiah was addressing Cyrus and thus addressing certain erroneous concepts and ideas that Cyrus may have had due to his religion.

The hebrew word for evil there is rah
taken from Strongs
From H7489; bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun: - adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease (-ure), distress, evil ([-favouredness], man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief (-vous), harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief, (-vous), misery, naught (-ty), noisome, + not please, sad (-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked (-ly, -ness, one), worse (-st) wretchedness, wrong. [Including feminine ra’ah; as adjective or noun.]

LXX related word(s)
G4191 poneros
G92 adikema
G93 adikia
G94 adikos
G95 adikos
G268 hamartolos
G714 arkeo

[Scotchman]

(02-07-2009 04:52 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  I have heard a lot of discussion on this point. Some say that evil in this verse does not mean really mean "evil". What do you think?

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

It means what it says. There are many verses to back this up so that there is no need to go further than this.

The Hebrew word here is Ra'ah and it means EVIL and Bad. Thats it. Where ever it is used, Rah is the Opposite of Tov which is Goodness.

They knew this when the Septuagint was written and they used the greek word KaKa/Kakos which means the same thing. EVIL and Wickedness.

Again Romans 9 and Isaiah 29, God creates the Wicked for His Glory.

And Finally,

Proverbs 16:4 * The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.