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Two House Theology
09-08-2009, 03:24 PM (This post was last modified: 09-08-2009 03:25 PM by SheitlQueen.)
Post: #1
Two House Theology
Does anyone here see any scriptural basis for the "two house theology"
(at least I think that is the proper terminology) where gentiles are
claiming they are "Hebrews" or "Ephramites"-descendents of one of
the lost 10 tribes. How they have decided that they are "Hebrews"
is beyond me.

Personally, I think it is just a desire on their part to belong to
a covenant that is not theirs....a wannabe Jew, if you wish.

There is a local radio show made up of a group of these people,
and they make it a point never to call themselves gentiles, and
always refer to themselves as "Hebrews". They seem to think
this makes them no longer gentile, but an "Israelite", as if it
bestows upon them some special status and favor.

They have, of course, absolutely no evidence that any of this is
true; and to claim to be a member of a lost tribe that was dispersed
so many years ago is impossible.
To me, in essence, that either makes them liars or wishful thinkers.
Or perhaps, a little crazy.

Comments?
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09-08-2009, 05:27 PM
Post: #2
RE: Two House Theology
(09-08-2009 03:24 PM)SheitlQueen Wrote:  Does anyone here see any scriptural basis for the "two house theology"
(at least I think that is the proper terminology) where gentiles are
claiming they are "Hebrews" or "Ephramites"-descendents of one of
the lost 10 tribes. How they have decided that they are "Hebrews"
is beyond me.

Personally, I think it is just a desire on their part to belong to
a covenant that is not theirs....a wannabe Jew, if you wish.

There is a local radio show made up of a group of these people,
and they make it a point never to call themselves gentiles, and
always refer to themselves as "Hebrews". They seem to think
this makes them no longer gentile, but an "Israelite", as if it
bestows upon them some special status and favor.

They have, of course, absolutely no evidence that any of this is
true; and to claim to be a member of a lost tribe that was dispersed
so many years ago is impossible.
To me, in essence, that either makes them liars or wishful thinkers.
Or perhaps, a little crazy.

Comments?

Two house is a popular teaching/doctrine/movement of the Messianic Hebrew Roots movement. Essentially, they believe that all those who are Messianic and observe Torah are really Jewish aka Ephraimites, or part of the lost tribes of Israel. It is just another offshoot of British Israelism which states that the lost tribes settled in Britain.

Hebert W Armstrong promoted this teaching in his denomination, the WorldWide Church of God in the USA, which kept the Sabbath and some of the feasts. From there it found it's way into Hebrew Roots with a slightly different twist.

Two House believes that at some point the House of Judah [Jews] and the House of Israel [Ephraimites] will be joined together in brotherhood [make the House of Judah jealous by their Torah observance] and this will usher in the Messiah [second return as understood by Messianics].

I am also aware that Yair Davidy of Israel teaches Two House - he is a Jewish man whose books have been promoted by some in Hebrew Roots - he is not Messianic, but has been an advocate of Two House for many years.

The Two House movement seems to be picking up speed with the greater interest in Israel by Christians who want to be connected with "God's Chosen People". Many in the Two House movement are seeking to make aliyah to Israel under false pretenses - purchasing conversions, or converting to Judaism falsely, by avoiding recantation of Jesus. These people are desperate to get to Israel and claim their part of the land, having persuaded themselves that they are "Ephraimites". Another part of this is the second exodus, headed by Monte Judah out of Norman, OK who believes he is Moses and will lead these "Ephraimites" to Israel when The Almighty directs him. There is an indication that many have sold their homes and left their jobs to join him in OK, believing in this Exodus and that they are in fact part of the lost tribes of Israel.
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09-09-2009, 05:59 PM
Post: #3
RE: Two House Theology
I honestly don't know what to make of it, but last time I looked it wasn't a necessity for salvation, so ultimately it doesn't compute.

As for people claiming they are of one of the two houses, I would simply ask them for viable, scientific proof, by a reputable establishment. I would want to check the DNA markers against those already listed/published to make sure they are not using those of another, or of myself, and if they are, bring the hammer of the law down on their skulls and introduce them to a jail.

Mat 10:34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
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09-09-2009, 06:07 PM (This post was last modified: 09-09-2009 06:10 PM by sheep wrecked.)
Post: #4
RE: Two House Theology
(09-09-2009 05:59 PM)grafted Wrote:  I honestly don't know what to make of it, but last time I looked it wasn't a necessity for salvation, so ultimately it doesn't compute.

As for people claiming they are of one of the two houses, I would simply ask them for viable, scientific proof, by a reputable establishment. I would want to check the DNA markers against those already listed/published to make sure they are not using those of another, or of myself, and if they are, bring the hammer of the law down on their skulls and introduce them to a jail.

It's not a legal issue - it's a spiritual one. They have been corrupted and are in delusion. Jail will not help. I get letters weekly from convicts who are deep into HR and Two House. They are being "converted" by the likes of Michael Rood who have found a new venue to personally go in and promote their scam to the ignorant and uninformed.
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09-10-2009, 02:33 AM
Post: #5
RE: Two House Theology
It's only a legal issue if they make a claim based upon someone's data vs their own. Outside of that I concur, it is a spiritual issue, and though I am no where close to understanding all that I probably should, I am reminded of a passage that mentions loosely, even the corruption of the elect; we are seeing some of that now.

While channel flipping to find something on the tv to provide background noise so I could sleep, I happened upon Don Harris, on GLC, and he went into how Christians should listen to Paul, and not rip the book of Hebrews out of our bibles, and that those who couldn't stand Paul had to realize that Peter and Timothy, and others loved him, and then he went into how we should keep the feast, and that tithing was a method of saving up so we could travel to some feast location- IIRC his or it was to be in Dallas. Now I readily admit I am no biblical scholar, but my mind kept going back to Paul.

Paul didn't do those things, and nor did the Gentiles he converted, and it didn't effect their salvation, and Peter finally realized it after God corrected him through both a few visions, and then a does of reality-check. Don's rantings reminded me of a used car-salesman, showing you a good model and then using the common "bait and switch" tactic to get listeners to do something that just didn't compute with what he previously had said. Of course I wasn't shocked, actually found it distasteful yet amusing, and somewhat saddening that there were those who are buying it hook-line-and-sinker.

Two houses....does not compute as a requirement for salvation, therefor I will not worry about which gate, or even how I enter, (head or feet first,) my only prayer is that he allows me to enter, period.

Mat 10:34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
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09-19-2009, 09:23 AM
Post: #6
RE: Two House Theology
Hi there, Smiley-greet013

I have just posted a series--that is under construction. Th_smiley_work

Hebrew Roots FAQS & Myths > http://www.seekgod.ca/topichr.htm#faqs

One of the topics is

Error- Two House, Ephraimites, Joes, Lost Tribes -all believers are Jewish

> http://www.seekgod.ca/hr/hrfaqs2.htm

That might give a little more information concerning Two House background.


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Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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01-27-2010, 04:10 PM
Post: #7
RE: Two House Theology
Its another form of Replacement Theology as I see it. that the "Gentile part of Israel will be returned back to the Original. But According to James 1:1 there are no Lost Tribes.

the Problem there is that there Are no lost Tribes. James knew His Bible. See 2 Chronicles 11:13-17, specifically verse 16.

v16 And after them, out of all the tribes of Israel, those who gave their heart to seek Jehovah the God of Israel, came to Jerusalem to sacrifice to Jehovah, the God of their fathers.

So their descendants went into captivity with Judah. Also notice that the UNFAITHFUL from ALL Twelve Tribes went North as well. So that when Israel was conquered by Assyria, All Twelve tribes got Lost (at least a portion of each) and a remnant of all twelve tribes stayed behind in Judah for the Captivity to Babylon. And it was a remnant still of All the tribes which came with Ezra and Nehemiah.

It is a misunderstanding also of the grafted branches of Romans 11: 17

And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;


Being confused with the vision of Ezekiel 37. Where Ezekiel gives God's own interpretation which culminates in verse 22 that the two sticks represent the two kingdoms of ISRAEL PROPER. The Two kingdoms which were split up after Solomon by Jereboam and Rehoboam.

Ezekiel is given a vision concerning Israel Proper, that it will be united back as one nation as under David when the Messiah comes again.

Why are the Sticks labeled Judah and Joseph/Ephraim? well perhaps Judah represents the first born by the flesh. And Joseph represents the firstborn by authority of God. And Ephraim may symbolize right Standing by Adoption since he was just that.

In the end this may also imply the grafting of Gentile Believers into the Tree of Abraham as spoken in Romans 11: 17

And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree


Where the natural branches of unbeleivers (the Israelites worshipping at the Calf causing God to send the Assyrians to remove them). And yet God has multiplied Israel to fill back in the Gap.

God promises to remove all unbelievers by the end of time and graft together a new body of believers into one tree to rule or live in the Millennial Kingdom of Messiah as spoken in Revelation and Daniel.

Does this help? If not, PM me and Ill expand. Just let me know what you need. I will try my best to help.
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01-28-2010, 12:41 PM
Post: #8
RE: Two House Theology
(01-27-2010 04:10 PM)Scotchman Wrote:  Ezekiel 37 is given a vision concerning Israel Proper, that it will be united back as one nation as under David when the Messiah comes again.

Why are the Sticks labeled Judah and Joseph/Ephraim? well perhaps Judah represents the first born by the flesh. And Joseph represents the firstborn by authority of God. And Ephraim may symbolize right Standing by Adoption since he was just that.


Keep in mind further, that Epharim was even joseph's Second born...

Genesis 41:52 * And the name of the second called he Ephraim

What is really amazing is that, Not only does God casse Israel to adopt these descendants of a gentile mother, but to place Ephraim the Younger as the Inheritor. Giving Him the rights of 'Firstborn' like Jacob himself which God gave the blessing of firstborn staus over Esau whom God Hated (Romans 9)

Genesis 48:14 * And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.

Joseph himself symbolizes a joining of Israel with the Gentiles, as his wife was Egyptian, even the daughter of a pagan priest who (I am sure) repented of her fathers beliefs.

In the end this may also imply the grafting of Gentile Believers into the Tree of Abraham as spoken in Romans 11: 17

And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree

And especially to include the Samaritans which were half Jewish/Gentile like Ephraim himself.

Where the natural branches of unbelievers (the Israelites worshiping at the Calf in Bethel causing God to send the Assyrians to remove them). And yet God has multiplied Israel to fill back in the Gap.

1 Kings 12:28-29 * Whereupon the king took counsel, and made two calves of gold, and said unto them, It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem: behold thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. * And he set the one in Bethel, and the other put he in Dan

God promises to remove all unbelievers by the end of time and graft together a new body of believers into one tree to rule or live in the Millennial Kingdom of Messiah as spoken in Revelation and Daniel.

So this is yet another Prophesy bearing multiple layers of mean like an onion as I describes in a similar post about the End Times.
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01-28-2010, 01:48 PM
Post: #9
RE: Two House Theology
(09-08-2009 05:27 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  
(09-08-2009 03:24 PM)SheitlQueen Wrote:  Does anyone here see any scriptural basis for the "two house theology"
(at least I think that is the proper terminology) where gentiles are
claiming they are "Hebrews" or "Ephramites"-descendents of one of
the lost 10 tribes. How they have decided that they are "Hebrews"
is beyond me.

Personally, I think it is just a desire on their part to belong to
a covenant that is not theirs....a wannabe Jew, if you wish.

There is a local radio show made up of a group of these people,
and they make it a point never to call themselves gentiles, and
always refer to themselves as "Hebrews". They seem to think
this makes them no longer gentile, but an "Israelite", as if it
bestows upon them some special status and favor.

They have, of course, absolutely no evidence that any of this is
true; and to claim to be a member of a lost tribe that was dispersed
so many years ago is impossible.
To me, in essence, that either makes them liars or wishful thinkers.
Or perhaps, a little crazy.

Comments?

Two house is a popular teaching/doctrine/movement of the Messianic Hebrew Roots movement. Essentially, they believe that all those who are Messianic and observe Torah are really Jewish aka Ephraimites, or part of the lost tribes of Israel. It is just another offshoot of British Israelism which states that the lost tribes settled in Britain.

Hebert W Armstrong promoted this teaching in his denomination, the WorldWide Church of God in the USA, which kept the Sabbath and some of the feasts. From there it found it's way into Hebrew Roots with a slightly different twist.

My dad and I used to be members of the WWCoG in like 1991. We had to observe the Saturday Sabbath and the "Jewish" feast days and eat only clean animals. One teaching that made me uneasy was that "we white, English-speaking people of Britain and the USA" (their words) are the true Israelite descendants of Ephraim and Manasseh. Ecomcity Some of us, including myself, wore Star of David jewellery. It still gets on my nerves that my dad and I fell for that tripe and that I was a @#%!! cult member. Yuk

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01-28-2010, 02:17 PM (This post was last modified: 01-28-2010 02:17 PM by sheep wrecked.)
Post: #10
RE: Two House Theology
(01-28-2010 01:48 PM)YYZ Skinhead Wrote:  My dad and I used to be members of the WWCoG in like 1991. We had to observe the Saturday Sabbath and the "Jewish" feast days and eat only clean animals. One teaching that made me uneasy was that "we white, English-speaking people of Britain and the USA" (their words) are the true Israelite descendants of Ephraim and Manasseh. Ecomcity Some of us, including myself, wore Star of David jewellery. It still gets on my nerves that my dad and I fell for that tripe and that I was a @#%!! cult member. Yuk

Actually, British Israelism, which Armstrong promoted and taught - is the foundation for the two house theology/doctrine being pushed in Hebrew Roots. It's sort of taken on a life of its own within that venue, but most definitely the "true Israelite descendants of Ephraim" are who they believe they are. Shame5

Don't feel bad - I was mixed up in that mess too! Thank God for His grace and that He has taken off the blinders! 47b20s0
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