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What's it mean?
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01-03-2010, 07:13 PM
Post: #21
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RE: What's it mean?
(01-02-2010 04:03 AM)Jade Wrote:Lord’s Blessing’s Sheep Wrecked and Everyone:(01-01-2010 02:30 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:(01-01-2010 12:44 AM)Jade Wrote: Sheep Wrecked for the last 2 days, I have been attempting to reply, but every time I hit or tab to post, my husband’s laptop dies. Man, talk about frustrating, I’m done messing around with that ‘it of a computer’ and am using the big guy in the office. No offense was taken and thanks for commenting, somehow all my connections from my head to processing of thoughts that day was not functioning and out of sync; but I swear that I was sober! Hopefully my 4th attempt to post a reply will be successful! Nevertheless what I meant to convey was the OT prophesy of Dan.9: 24-27 and Is. 63:17-19. as well as many more, was fulfilled by Christ, the Cross, and remission of sins. I agree that 70 AD destruction of the temple completed Dan prophecy. What Jesus in Luke 21: 19-24 speaks about are subsequent events that will be fulfilled. In context, Romans 5:8-15, 9:4-7, 30-33, 11: 11,19,24-31 and chapter 4 of Gal. are a few examples of why Jerusalem is trodden down by the Gentiles until the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled. Of course in Romans 11:19-31, Paul explains (my interpretation) that the Jews sought signs and wonders therefore they did not believe. What I find interesting is why when in fact, Jesus did so many signs and wonders through His many miracles of feeding the 5000, healing the blind, disappearing through walls when they wanted to stone Him, and yet they didn’t believe. The Gentiles did believe, as a result the Gentiles were grafted into the branch and there is no more Jew or Gentile but only one body and Christ is the Head of the Body. They are enemies of the gospel for our sake, as Paul said in verse 32. For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. Luke 21:24 (b) 'until the Gentiles be fulfilled', I'm not sure if this means 'when' the Gentiles/Church became established or if this referring to the completeness of the Church and gospel, which is to be preached to the ends of the earth, has it? 2 Thess. 2-9 Paul says in verse 3)’ Let no one deceive you by any means, for that Day will not come first unless the falling away come first and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition’. Does this mean that when Paul wrote verse 9, that he considered the time of Gentiles was fulfilled (Luke 21:24)? Not sure, maybe you or anyone else has insight on this subject. What I do know is that the idea of building a 2nd temple and the man of sin standing in this temple proclaiming to be God does not play out scripturally and is a red herring! Why do I think this is? Because the temple of God is within us (1 Cor.3:16-17, 2 Cor.5:1, 2,8-9, Col. 1:15-16), and is in Heaven, Rev.11:1,19, as well as many other verse. But I think the measuring of the temple in Rev. 11:1, is the New Jerusalem that comes down from Heaven and not a reference to Dan 9. Why I stated all the verses that I did in my last post, I’m not sure. Maybe it was because I have been studying [u]in my Bible are the contrasts of the crucifixion of Christ outside the city and the sacrificial burning of the animals outside the temple with the bringing in of the blood into the temple. This might be why Hebrews was mentioned. What has piqued my interest recently, in addition too, is the parable of the wedding feast or party Jesus spoke about. Why was the one person dressed improperly asked to leave, who was that person and what does this represent? Their are so many interesting topics of truths in God’s Word. Hope this reposting has made more sense. Lord’s Blessing. |
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01-03-2010, 07:36 PM
Post: #22
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RE: What's it mean?
Hi Jade, Just a quick comment here. While the Jews 'in part' were blind, many thousands did come to Christ and still do, including the apostles who were of the nation of Israel aka Jewish. You might wish to read mary's premillenial thread and look at the who all are Israel etc. that I posted about. I am going to delete your one post that didnt actually say anything new here because of the length of it.
Vic SeekGod.ca 3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth. Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint. |
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01-06-2010, 11:48 AM
Post: #23
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RE: What's it mean?
HI Jade, you've got a lot of topics included in this that could be put into new discussion threads. But for now just a few thoughts.
Quote:As for Luke 24 (b), 'until the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled, I think the Lord is speaking of the Church. Romans 11:24-36 tells us that 'God has hardened Israels until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in'. I Cor.1,1:18-27, Jews seek signs, a stumbling block, Greeks foolishness, but we preach Christ, and God has chosed the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise. Gal. Chapter 4, in the fullness of time God sent forth His Son to redeem those who were of the law, that we might receive adoption; Abrahams 2 sons one according to the flesh, bondage, Jerusalem with many children. Issac was the child of the promise, the New Jerusalem, ( verse 29) But as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. I think that the time of the Gentiles, means the timeframe when Gentiles along with Jews come to Christ. When the gospel--and that included the mystery that salvation was offered not just to the Jews but to the Gentiles and they become one new man in Christ--is preached through all the earth. One could look at the choosing of Israel as the time for Israel aka the Jews, who were specifically chosen by God to not only proclaim Almighty God, but to preserve His Word over time. THey were given the promises and prophecies, which if they believed Moses and the prophets, were fulfilled in Christ. Where before separation from Gentiles was necessary, now in Christ, there could be no separation because of who anyone was. So now the time of the Gentiles being given opportunity for salvation is extended, until all, both Jew and Gentile, that will believe Christ are completed as His Church. As I stated previously, Israel in part was hardened. Many thousands came to Christ at the witness of Christ Himself and then the apostles and since then. I think it's a real deception to not understand that concept, because it allows for the error that then all Israel being saved means, as with the dispensation error, that there is a separate entity of Jews aka Israel, who will come to Christ during the tribulation and that's just their tribulation and they will have salvation, but without the indwelling Holy Spirit, and they won't be able to go to heaven--kind of like lesser saints--they just get to rule on earth for the 1000 years...etc. THere's more about that in the Jewish wedding parallel. Then those who don't accept Christ get to when He returns and all will see Him and know who He is. Meaning no eternal damnation for Jews, just gentiles that reject Him. The claim is also that Jews who have been saved prior to the 'rapture' aren't actually of the nation of Israel. THese ideas so overturn Scriptures that it is unbelievable to me that some of Jewish descent actually believe this slop. Because that's what it is. Spiritual slop that overturns Scripture after Scripture, and separates Jews and Gentiles yet again, only this time instead of the gentiles being the unspiritual and to be separated from, this time the Jews are lesser believers, yet, also special in that even tho they reject Christ now --at the very end they can believe Him. So much for one new man, which incidentally for many, they don't acknowledge that Jews are actually part of the Church, aka the Body of Christ. Suddenly all the Scriptures mentioning those thousands who came to Christ are suddenly ommitted as having that heritage. Heritage does no longer matter in Christ, but... Act 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Acts 2:37-41 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. Acts 13:31-33 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. 32. And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33. God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. Romans 9:24-27 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 25. As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 26. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. 27. Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: Acts 10:34-43 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35. But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. 36. The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all 37. That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38. How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. 39. And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40. Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; 41. Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. 42. And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. Romans 10:9-21 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15. And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16. But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17. So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 19. But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20. But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21. But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people. Deuteronomy 18:15-19 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; 16. According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. 17. And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. 18. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. Joh 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph Mark 16:15-16 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Heb 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; Hebrews 3:5-9 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; 6. But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. 7. Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, 8. Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9. When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. Israel has been given opportunity through the law and the prophets, to believe them and know Christ. Jesus went to them personally, being the fulfillment of the promises. He said of those Jews who rejected Him--because thousands did believe Him and still do come to Him: John 5:45-47 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? Quote: in the fullness of time God sent forth His Son to redeem those who were of the law, that we might receive adoption; [/color]THose under the law were the Jews. And Paul, a Jew, said, "that WE might receive the adoption of sons." He means redemption was offered to both Jews and Gentiles, not just Jews and not just gentiles. Quote: I think that verse 4 ' who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called Gods or that is worshiped so that he sits as God in the temple of God showing himself that he is God', is the church, and can be cross referenced to Rev. 17: 9 -18., war against the Lamb and those who are with Him. Are you thinking in terms of a/the christian church, or the spiritual church unity in diversity that includes all beliefs that reject Christ or ? Quote:What I find interesting is why when in fact, Jesus did so many signs and wonders through His many miracles of feeding the 5000, healing the blind, disappearing through walls when they wanted to stone Him, and yet they didn’t believe. The Gentiles did believe, as a result the Gentiles were grafted into the branch and there is no more Jew or Gentile but only one body and Christ is the Head of the Body. They are enemies of the gospel for our sake, as Paul said in verse 32. For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. As discussed, many many thousands of Jews did believe. Scripturally a third is saved--it evade me for the moment--I know it's in some posts. When asked about that, those who claim all Israel will be saved when they see Christ return---they ignore those Scriptures. I believe it's important to really understand the New Covenant and all verses pertaining to the promises it contained in order to understand the end results of it. Many are denying the New covenant as being first to Israel and offered to all Israel as well as all mankind. JUst as not all gentiles accepts Christ, not all Israel accepts Christ. Do you have a Scripture that says Jesus walked through walls to evade people? Vic SeekGod.ca 3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth. Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint. |
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01-28-2010, 10:03 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-28-2010 10:20 AM by Scotchman.)
Post: #24
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RE: What's it mean?
I believe this was fulfilled in 70AD with the destruction of the Temple. The gentiles [Romans] not only destroyed the Temple but the whole city of Jerusalem was trodden down and millions of Jews were massacred and scattered.
[/quote] That would actually be a "Beginning of the Times of the Gentiles". 70AD is when God Destroyed the Temple and Ended Jewish Control over Jerusalem COMPLETELY for the first time since Nebuchadnezzar. And since this is connected with the prophecies in that Book, then Jesus' statement can not be fulfilled until AFTER Jerusalem was Destroyed and some time passes for the Gentiles to trodden it. Jesus' comment refers to a restoration of Jewish control over Jerusalem (and more specifically the Temple Mount), and NOT a loss of it. The greek word used here for "Times" in Luke 21:24 is Kairoi and appears to be plural. The word itself does not normally mean a 'moment' (i.e. 70 AD) as that would be Chronos. But rather, Karos implies an Opportunity or duration of action. We would say season or period, in english NOW. But the word times meant the same in 1600s. It means a period of Gentile Rule. It can mean Worldwide Rule as this seems to pair up with Daniel's prophecies of World Domination by the Gentiles until the Tribulation sometime in the 70th Week of Daniel 9. Or it could mean Gentile Rule over the Temple Area proper. Neither of these possibilities have occured yet so it does not matter what we think about the future. we simply know that it is NOT past. Also, the book of Revelation was written AFTER 70 AD yet it talks of the Future. this also places it's even in the Future. I think it is why preterists like John bunyan, have to allegorize Revelation. The Hebrew understanding based upon Bible Truth is that all prophecies come in double fulfillments. A short term and long term fulfillment. The Immediate Fulfillmennt is so that the locals believe the Future Fulfillment. From our point of view it means that we can find partials fulfillments of many end time prophecies. But that just means we are assured of their future arrival. We received the Holy Spirit as a seal to our future redemption. Jesus' resurrection is a promise of our own. John wrote in 1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time Even John, writing here most likely AFTER 70AD, understands a future antichrist as prophesied by Daniel as the FINAL world leader... But john also understands that there are smaller current examples which show use that the prophesy WILL happen. The End of Gentile Rule will be quickly followed by the Literal Messiah Jesus ruling (again, Daniels first vision). 70AD did NOT mark the end of Gentile Rule. the Disciples understood this order of things when they asked. And Jesus responded with a lengthy timeline that must first come to pass. First Jesus points out that the Temple must be destroyed. This is understood as God giving the Jews 1 generation to leave the bondage of the Law: Luke 21:6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down The disciples got excited and expected this to bring in the kingdom. But Jesus corrected them that the loss of the Temple is a "changing of the guards" Notice the switch in the timeline to gentile rule. And yet the end is to be far away still. Luke 21:7-9 * And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass? * And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them. * But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by It was AFTER 70AD that the problem of false Messiahs began in Israel. Bar Kochba being the most famous around 130AD. (01-28-2010 10:03 AM)Scotchman Wrote: Finally, As a secondary topic. We find that by studying the 7 letters to the 7 churches in Revelation, that they have multiple meanings. 1) They represented 7 literal churches (These have been located). 2) The Represent 7 aspects in every church (These can be dated). 3) They represent 7 church ages (These can be seen and joined). Laodicea being the last and current Apostasied age of post-modernism! This is a good exmaple of the above mentioned rule that prophesy (which is literally the "Word of God") contains levels of meaning like an onion. A Simple, Current, relative, Obvious one. And a deeper, hidden one requiring Study and/or the passage of tiime, before it is revealed. Proverbs 25:2 * It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter |
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01-28-2010, 01:24 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-28-2010 01:27 PM by Scotchman.)
Post: #25
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RE: What's it mean?
An Additional point to study, may need to become another thread one day.
Read Daniel chapter 2 about the vision which Nebuchadnezzer had. Notice the interpretation of it beginning in verse 36. Nebuchadnezzer may be another Beginning for the "Times of the Gentiles" as God puts the whole World under his care. And each kingdom succeeds the previous, conquering more physical Land until Rome owned almost the entire World. Daniel 2:38 * And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold And Rome is promised to survive until the Return of the Messiah as the Stone which crushes the World's Rulership. Daniel 2:44 * And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. So God sent a vision of a Statue which represented the Entire Times of the Gentile Empire-Rulership over the World. And it does not end until Christ's return. One really can not understand Revelation on its own. One must study Daniel and Ezekiel At Least. We must take the WHOLE Counsel of God! The Disciples would be thinking about this when they asked: Luke 21:7 * And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass |
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01-29-2010, 05:17 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-29-2010 05:17 AM by Rose of Shushan.)
Post: #26
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RE: What's it mean?
Quote:Also, the book of Revelation was written AFTER 70 AD yet it talks of the Future. this also places it's even in the Future. I think it is why preterists like John bunyan, have to allegorize Revelation. Although I'm not a preterist ,I also see that Revelation is full of allegory and symbolic language.Therefore we must be careful not to take literally things that are meant allegorically. Quote:The Hebrew understanding based upon Bible Truth is that all prophecies come in double fulfillments. A short term and long term fulfillment. The Immediate Fulfillmennt is so that the locals believe the Future Fulfillment. From our point of view it means that we can find partials fulfillments of many end time prophecies. But that just means we are assured of their future arrival.I'm not quite sure of the source of this Hebrew understanding.Perhaps you could elaborate? From what I see in Scripture,prophecy is given that things may come to pass ie be fulfilled.Once fulfilled I dont see the logic of them needing to be fulfilled again.Perhaps you could give some examples of actual prophecies in the Bible that have already been fulfilled twice so I can see where this has happened before. What I do believe in,but I dont think its really what you meant up there, is that prophecies can have a physical and spiritual fulfilment.For example when Abraham said that God Himself would provide the lamb Gen 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together. then we see that that could have both a physical fulfilment since God did provide the ram and also a spiritual one since Jesus was the Lamb of God. Quote:First Jesus points out that the Temple must be destroyed. This is understood as God giving the Jews 1 generation to leave the bondage of the Law: I dont see in verses 6 to 9 where the temple destruction comes first.Instead I see that the disciples ask when that will come about and Jesus elaborates on what must happen in the run up to that event .It is not til verse 20 onwards thats when we get to the period which culminates in the destruction of the Temple. Quote:It was AFTER 70AD that the problem of false Messiahs began in Israel. Bar Kochba being the most famous around 130AD. Actually the NT records 3 false Messiahs already and those were prior to 70 AD. Act 5:36 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought. Act 5:37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed. Act 21:38 Art not thou that Egyptian, which before these days madest an uproar, and leddest out into the wilderness four thousand men that were murderers? |
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01-29-2010, 10:11 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-29-2010 10:12 AM by Scotchman.)
Post: #27
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RE: What's it mean?
(01-29-2010 05:17 AM)Rose of Shushan Wrote: What I do believe in,but I dont think its really what you meant up there, is that prophecies can have a physical and spiritual fulfilment.For example when Abraham said that God Himself would provide the lamb[/color][/b] Yes, that is also true. Quote:First Jesus points out that the Temple must be destroyed. This is understood as God giving the Jews 1 generation to leave the bondage of the Law: I dont see in verses 6 to 9 where the temple destruction comes first.Instead I see that the disciples ask when that will come about and Jesus elaborates on what must happen in the run up to that event .It is not til verse 20 onwards thats when we get to the period which culminates in the destruction of the Temple. [/quote] The Temple Distruction is in verse 6. But the Disciples ask 2 Questions thinking that they are a single event! We see the same today. We understand that there WILL be another Temple and that christ will come, Destroy it and Reign. They were looking for the Messianic Kingdom beleiving that THEIRS was the final Temple. But it was not. The Times of the Gentiles needed to be inserted and then there will be another. Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass? 8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived and in Matthew it is worded more detailed. Matthew 24:3 * And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Jesus left the questioin about the Temple Stand. It would be Destroyed. But Jesus went on and warned them that it was only the beginning of Sorrows and that MANY Wars and Earthquakes and terrible things would happen and yet the End Is Not Yet! The Jesus reference this. Matthew 24:15 * When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand  That did not occur in 70AD. It occurred about 200 years earlier during the Maccabean revolt by Antiochus Epiphanes. And HE was the fullfillment of Daniel as a forshadowing of the final Antichrist. As was Titus a type. and although each fulfill a few of the antichrist prophecies as would many more to come according to Jesus. There is still one yet to come who will fulfill them all. (01-29-2010 05:17 AM)Rose of Shushan Wrote: What I do believe in,but I dont think its really what you meant up there, is that prophecies can have a physical and spiritual fulfilment.For example when Abraham said that God Himself would provide the lamb Yes, that is also true. Quote:First Jesus points out that the Temple must be destroyed. This is understood as God giving the Jews 1 generation to leave the bondage of the Law: I dont see in verses 6 to 9 where the temple destruction comes first.Instead I see that the disciples ask when that will come about and Jesus elaborates on what must happen in the run up to that event .It is not til verse 20 onwards thats when we get to the period which culminates in the destruction of the Temple. [/quote] The Temple Distruction is in verse 6. But the Disciples ask 2 Questions thinking that they are a single event! We see the same today. We understand that there WILL be another Temple and that christ will come, Destroy it and Reign. They were looking for the Messianic Kingdom beleiving that THEIRS was the final Temple. But it was not. The Times of the Gentiles needed to be inserted and then there will be another. Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass? 8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived and in Matthew it is worded more detailed. Matthew 24:3 * And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Jesus left the questioin about the Temple Stand. It would be Destroyed. But Jesus went on and warned them that it was only the beginning of Sorrows and that MANY Wars and Earthquakes and terrible things would happen and yet the End Is Not Yet! The Jesus reference this. Matthew 24:15 * When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand That did not occur in 70AD. It occurred about 200 years earlier during the Maccabean revolt by Antiochus Epiphanes. And HE was the fullfillment of Daniel as a forshadowing of the final Antichrist. As was Titus a type. and although each fulfill a few of the antichrist prophecies as would many more to come according to Jesus. There is still one yet to come who will fulfill them all. |
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01-29-2010, 05:24 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-29-2010 05:26 PM by sheep wrecked.)
Post: #28
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RE: What's it mean?
(01-29-2010 10:11 AM)Scotchman Wrote:(01-29-2010 05:17 AM)Rose of Shushan Wrote: What I do believe in,but I dont think its really what you meant up there, is that prophecies can have a physical and spiritual fulfilment.For example when Abraham said that God Himself would provide the lamb[/color][/b] Quote:The Temple Distruction is in verse 6. The Temple Distruction is in verse 6. But the Disciples ask 2 Questions thinking that they are a single event! We see the same today. We understand that there WILL be another Temple and that christ will come, Destroy it and Reign. They were looking for the Messianic Kingdom beleiving that THEIRS was the final Temple. But it was not. The Times of the Gentiles needed to be inserted and then there will be another. Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass? 8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived and in Matthew it is worded more detailed. Matthew 24:3 * And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Jesus left the questioin about the Temple Stand. It would be Destroyed. But Jesus went on and warned them that it was only the beginning of Sorrows and that MANY Wars and Earthquakes and terrible things would happen and yet the End Is Not Yet! The Jesus reference this. Matthew 24:15 * When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand That did not occur in 70AD. It occurred about 200 years earlier during the Maccabean revolt by Antiochus Epiphanes. And HE was the fullfillment of Daniel as a forshadowing of the final Antichrist. As was Titus a type. and although each fulfill a few of the antichrist prophecies as would many more to come according to Jesus. There is still one yet to come who will fulfill them all. [/quote] Phillip - you are double posting within a post. In other words, you are doubling up or repeating your answers in your posts. Not sure why this is happening? It's kind of weird  I would love to answer this post, but I cannot figure out what you are talking about. You seem to be mixing scripts with your own perceptions of fulfillment. I think the Bible explains things a bit differently. Maybe this topic should be left alone for awhile  
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01-29-2010, 06:03 PM
Post: #29
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RE: What's it mean?
Its been shuffled and edited so much.
Now it has different people saying differently than before. IGNORE THE PREVIOUS POST CONFUSION! Multiple people are quoting within quotes and removing the names of who said what. I try hard to remove all excess from replies but not everyone does that. I have seen people reply to me and repost my entire exchange which wastes space and is probably what cause this confusion. Time to hit the START OVER button.   This thread has been hijacked by ENTROPY We can try Again Later. Have a blessed weekend! |
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01-29-2010, 06:41 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-29-2010 06:43 PM by Scotchman.)
Post: #30
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RE: What's it mean?
I have been in computers since 1980. I have run multiple, successful websites (too bad some were messianic)
 I have run 2 different forums all setup, admin, and code-modded by hand.I know how the quote feature works and I could probably dig into my cache and pull out some submissions. I have spent alot of time deleting OUT info from my replies and have even PM or emailed people who like to hit reply-to and leave everything. It is clutter which I do not like. Please do not accuse me of doing the very thing I have shunned. I only post this because the above statement was not PM'd to me and is untrue. So I am going to stop using the auto-quote feature and do my replies by hand like I normally do. BBcode is not that hard. And I can do it inside Firefox. I only hoped I would not have to. I have seen others reply to my post and repost the entire original submission. THAT is bad Netiquette. If I Reply and let the Auto-Quote go, It becomes Locusts out of the Pit. I for one am starting over. I would rather leave than just make trouble and SPAM is insulting!  This pot needs to be thrown out! |
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