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Will Jesus Enter the Eastern Gate For the First Time or, Again?
06-01-2010, 02:59 PM
Post: #21
RE: Will Jesus Enter the Eastern Gate For the First Time or, Again?
(06-01-2010 11:54 AM)jazzy Wrote:  I have no knowledge of the Talmud except for what I have been reading in Mr. Reilands book "The Third Temple and Jesus" and 6838 I have never been involved with the HR/Messianic movements!

If you have no knowledge of the Talmud, and we have tons of info here on the forum, and Vic's website, then perhaps it would be helpful to scope out the truth of it a bit.

Mr Reiland appears to be rather Talmudically minded. In other words, he is pushing it to intrepret NT scripture, the third temple and how Jesus would fit into that scenario. Unfortunately, the third temple, if it is built, will not have anything to do with Jesus Christ [Jesus is the Temple - not built by human hands and as we are in Christ, are also the Temple of the Holy Spirit]. Mr Reiland is simply promoting a lot of conjecture and opinion based in kabbalah and Talmud.

I was looking at a promo of his book - the Third Temple and Jesus - and saw that he spends a great deal of time on the "shekinah" of God from Moses forward. The "shekinah" is not found in Scripture. It is a created word having found its roots in kabbalah [mysticism and occultic] and is defined as the feminine presence of God. she is also called the "Mother Spirit". So his entire premise is of the occult. He appears to have quite a flavor and appeal of Judaism in his writings, which denies Jesus Christ. You may want to reconsider quoting his books as they are highly off base.
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06-01-2010, 03:39 PM (This post was last modified: 06-01-2010 04:20 PM by jazzy.)
Post: #22
RE: Will Jesus Enter the Eastern Gate For the First Time or, Again?
[quote='sheep wrecked' pid='5876' dateline='1275416952']

Perhaps you could provide a source for "Roman guidelines" and that Rome had to give permission for the death penalty. Thanx. [The Talmud is not a credible source for this info].

I can't provide a source since I only remember it from reading it. I never said that came from the Talmud.



[quote]jazzy:I don't understand why you mentioned Zechariah, maybe you could clarify that for me.[/quote]


[quote]Because the priesthood was corrupted, the Temple was built by the desires of man, not the command of God. The second Temple was built by Herod, a cursed Edomite and put in office by Rome. Herod wanted a Temple built that would bring him glory and thereby worshiped. The High Priest had also been put in office by Rome for political reasons.[/quote]

Herod didn't build the second temple. Jewish exiles returning from Babylon to Jerusalem following a decree from Cyrus the Great built the second temple. It stood from 516 B.C.-70 A.D. Herod wasn't even alive when the second temple was built! Herod only renovated it in around 20 A.D.

[quote]God's Presence dwelt in the Ark of the Covenant. When the Ark disappeared, God's presence was no longer with the nation of Israel because the covenant was broken. However; God was faithful to those righteous under the conditions of the old covenant until Jesus died and so Zecharias was considered righteous and entered the Holy of Holies an and saw the angel. Jesus said the Temple would be destroyed and when He died the veil was rent in two. It was not the Temple of the Lord, it was Herod's Temple.[/quote]

The Ark was built to house the tablets which the Ten Commandments were written on, Aaron's rod and manna. At no time did God ever dwell in the Ark. God met the Israelites on the Mercy Seat.



[quote]What event are you referring to? The Talmud is an interpretation of historical events, it is not factual and often not accurate. In other words, the Talmud is not the plumbline for "signs" concerning the Temple in the first century.[/quote]

Please read my comments to Vic on this point.


[quote]The Presence of God left the Temple centuries before when the Ark disappeared, so there were no warning signs that His Presence would leave in the first century - that would be myth.[/quote]

You make Jesus a liar. He said: And whosoever shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. Matt. 23:21 7067
[quote]The Presence of God left the Temple centuries before when the Ark disappeared, so there were no warning signs that His Presence would leave in the first century - that would be myth.[/quote]

Another thought sheepwrecked, why would Jesus say:

Take these things hence; make not my Father's house a house of merchandise. John 2:16

if he didn't believe that God dwelt in the second temple?
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06-01-2010, 04:33 PM (This post was last modified: 06-01-2010 04:46 PM by sheep wrecked.)
Post: #23
RE: Will Jesus Enter the Eastern Gate For the First Time or, Again?
(06-01-2010 03:39 PM)jazzy Wrote:  
(06-01-2010 02:29 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  Perhaps you could provide a source for "Roman guidelines" and that Rome had to give permission for the death penalty. Thanx. [The Talmud is not a credible source for this info].

I can't provide a source since I only remember it from reading it. I never said that came from the Talmud.

It would really be helpful to find a source for the Roman guidelines if you are promoting it as a first century practice. I only mentioned the Talmud as a possible source as you seem to be quoting from it quite a bit Biggrin




Quote:sheep:
Because the priesthood was corrupted, the Temple was built by the desires of man, not the command of God. The second Temple was built by Herod, a cursed Edomite and put in office by Rome. Herod wanted a Temple built that would bring him glory and thereby worshiped. The High Priest had also been put in office by Rome for political reasons.


Quote:Herod didn't build the second temple. Jewish exiles returning from Babylon to Jerusalem following a decree from Cyrus the Great built the second temple. It stood from 516 B.C.-70 A.D. Herod wasn't even alive when the second temple was built!

I was referring to the second Temple as it existed in the first century. In 200BCE, the Temple was looted, a statue and an altar to Zeus were errected by Antiochus. The Maccabees stormed the Temple, cleansed it, and rededicated [hanukkah] it in 167 BCE - according to Maccabean history [not God ordained]. The Temple, at that point was corrupted by the Maccabees who installed their own priesthood, put each suceeding brother in as High Priest and the last brother also took upon himself the office of King along with the office of High Priest [completely corrupt]. The Hasmodean/Maccabean system was in full control in the first century. The Temple was in real bad shape so Herod re-built it and from then on, it was called Herod's Temple.

http://www.bible-history.com/jewishtemple/

Quote:sheep:

God's Presence dwelt in the Ark of the Covenant. When the Ark disappeared, God's presence was no longer with the nation of Israel because the covenant was broken. However; God was faithful to those righteous under the conditions of the old covenant until Jesus died and so Zecharias was considered righteous and entered the Holy of Holies an and saw the angel. Jesus said the Temple would be destroyed and when He died the veil was rent in two. It was not the Temple of the Lord, it was Herod's Temple.

Quote:The Ark was built to house the tablets which the Ten Commandments were written on, Aaron's rod and manna. At no time did God ever dwell in the Ark. God met the Israelites on the Mercy Seat.

The mercy seat is on the Ark of the Covenant and is inclusive of both. You can't have one without the other. See Ex 27.



Quote:sheep:
What event are you referring to? The Talmud is an interpretation of historical events, it is not factual and often not accurate. In other words, the Talmud is not the plumbline for "signs" concerning the Temple in the first century.


Quote:jazzy:
Please read my comments to Vic on this point.

I have read them, but all I see is a reference to "strange signs" which is why I asked for clarification. thanx.


Quote:sheep:
The Presence of God left the Temple centuries before when the Ark disappeared, so there were no warning signs that His Presence would leave in the first century - that would be myth.

You make Jesus a liar. He said: And whosoever shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. Matt. 23:21 7067

I believe the context shows that Jesus is not saying it is a good thing, as he is referring to the Pharisees and swearing on the Temple is not what God wants.

Matt 23:16 Woe unto you, [ye] blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!


Mat 23:17 [Ye] fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?


Mat 23:18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.


Mat 23:19 [Ye] fools and blind: for whether [is] greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?


Mat 23:20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.


Mat 23:21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.


Mat 23:22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.


Mat 5:33 ¶ Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:


Mat 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:


Mat 5:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.


Mat 5:36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.


Mat 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
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06-01-2010, 04:33 PM
Post: #24
RE: Will Jesus Enter the Eastern Gate For the First Time or, Again?
(05-31-2010 09:19 PM)Rose of Shushan Wrote:  
Quote:Paul said that God has concluded all Israel in unbelief. Rom.11:32 When they as a nation refused to accept Jesus as their Messiah and did not keep His covenant, I have to wonder just what position the Jews do have anymore.

I dont see that the Romans verse you quoted is referring to Israel but rather to both jew and gentile.Ill paste the verse with the preceding two verses so we get context.

Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.


In verse 30 its the gentiles not believing and in 31 its the jews.So both jew and gentile have been guilty of unbelief and both benefit from God's mercy.

As to the position that jews have today. Well to me it seems clear from the NT that being jewish itself will not save you.We all jew and gentile need to enter into the New Covenant and believe in Jesus Christ for salvation.
It is encouraging that so may jews now believe in their Messiah and are also more vocal about it.

The first "all" in (v.32) are the Jews which Paul was writing about in the previous context verses. He made them spiritually just like Gentiles. He didn't conclude Gentiles in unbelief, Gentiles are born that way to begin with. Jews were born into the family of God, they were natural children of God.

Paul said:

"We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, Knowing that a man is not justified by works of the law, but by faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified". (Gal.2:15-16)

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06-01-2010, 06:08 PM (This post was last modified: 06-01-2010 06:10 PM by jazzy.)
Post: #25
RE: Will Jesus Enter the Eastern Gate For the First Time or, Again?
Quote:I believe the context shows that Jesus is not saying it is a good thing, as he is referring to the Pharisees and swearing on the Temple is not what God wants.


Mat 23:21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.


Another thought sheepwrecked, why would Jesus say:

Take these things hence; make not my Father's house a house of merchandise. John 2:16

if he didn't believe that God dwelt in the second temple? Th_ththink
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06-01-2010, 08:03 PM (This post was last modified: 06-01-2010 08:04 PM by sheep wrecked.)
Post: #26
RE: Will Jesus Enter the Eastern Gate For the First Time or, Again?
(06-01-2010 06:08 PM)jazzy Wrote:  
Quote:I believe the context shows that Jesus is not saying it is a good thing, as he is referring to the Pharisees and swearing on the Temple is not what God wants.


Mat 23:21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.


Another thought sheepwrecked, why would Jesus say:

Take these things hence; make not my Father's house a house of merchandise. John 2:16

if he didn't believe that God dwelt in the second temple? Th_ththink

I believe Jesus was speaking allegorically. He was not in the Temple proper, but in Solomon's Porch which Herod built so that the gentiles could look over at the Temple and marvel at his great work. Solomon's Porch held the tables where the merchandizing was being done. My personal opinion is that Jesus never actually went into the Temple itself because it was corrupted and possibly the Pharisees would not have allowed Him entrance because they believed He spoke blasphemy.
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06-02-2010, 03:16 PM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2010 03:28 PM by jazzy.)
Post: #27
RE: Will Jesus Enter the Eastern Gate For the First Time or, Again?
(06-01-2010 08:03 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  
(06-01-2010 06:08 PM)jazzy Wrote:  
Quote:I believe the context shows that Jesus is not saying it is a good thing, as he is referring to the Pharisees and swearing on the Temple is not what God wants.


Mat 23:21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.


Another thought sheepwrecked, why would Jesus say:

Take these things hence; make not my Father's house a house of merchandise. John 2:16

if he didn't believe that God dwelt in the second temple? Th_ththink

I believe Jesus was speaking allegorically. He was not in the Temple proper, but in Solomon's Porch which Herod built so that the gentiles could look over at the Temple and marvel at his great work. Solomon's Porch held the tables where the merchandizing was being done. My personal opinion is that Jesus never actually went into the Temple itself because it was corrupted and possibly the Pharisees would not have allowed Him entrance because they believed He spoke blasphemy.


No That makes no sense that Jesus was speaking allegorically. The whole complex was considered to be the temple.

And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the money changers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them,It is written, MY HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED THE HOUSE OF PRAYER; but ye have made it a DEN OF THIEVES. Matt.21:12,13

As you can see the above passage makes no distincition between Solomon's Porch and the Temple.

What has your personal opinion got to do with anything? What is important (above your personal opinion) is what scripture says.


And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them and asking them questions. And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers. Luke 2:46,47

If my memory serves me correctly Jesus was only 12 yrs. old and he was shocking the rabbis and teachers of the Law with His understanding!in the temple.

And Jesus went out and departed from the temple: Matt.21:1

In that same hour said Jesus to the multitudes, Are ye come out as against a thief with swords and staves for to take me? I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me. Matt.25:55

There were so many more, but I felt this to be enough to dispell the notion that Jesus was never in the temple. Th_ththink

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06-02-2010, 08:05 PM
Post: #28
RE: Will Jesus Enter the Eastern Gate For the First Time or, Again?
I believe there's 71 Scriptural references in the NT concerning the temple. And in the gospels there is clear record of Jesus teaching in the Temple. Where exactly in the temple, it is not perhaps as clear as one might want.

Here's some examples mentioning the Temple versus the times mentioning Him being in Solomon's porch. I think when He was teaching the Jews at particular times He was in the Jewish part of the Temple.-one verse speaks of Him teaching in the treasury. When we see the specific inclusion of Jews and Gentiles He was in Solomon's porch which allowed for that. That doesn't mean that some of the references aren't meaning Solomon's porch. It just does not say which part of the Temple He was teaching in, in most cases. He also taught in their synagogues.


Mat 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Luk 4:15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18. The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19. To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

Joh 10:23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch

Luk 20:1 And it came to pass, that on one of those days, as he taught the people in the temple, and preached the gospel, the chief priests and the scribes came upon him with the elders,

Joh 7:28 Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not.

Matthew 21:12-15 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, 13. And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves. 14. And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple; and he healed them. 15. And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying, Hosanna to the Son of David; they were sore displeased,

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Mar 12:35 And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the Son of David?

Mar 14:49 I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled.

Luk 21:37 And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives.
Luk 21:38 And all the people came early in the morning to him in the temple, for to hear him.

Joh 8:20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.

Mark 11:15-17 And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves; 16. And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple. 17. And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.


Obviously the Temple was to be about God, but it had lost that focus many years before. The buying and selling within it was just one issue that Jesus dealt with. The reality is, there is no building that contains God. Even when He allowed His presence to appear to Israel---that was just a small part of Who God is. And Israel asked to not have to be in His presence. That is when the promise of God sending the Messiah took place.


Deu 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Deu 18:16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
Deu 18:17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Deu 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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06-03-2010, 11:47 AM (This post was last modified: 06-03-2010 12:32 PM by sheep wrecked.)
Post: #29
RE: Will Jesus Enter the Eastern Gate For the First Time or, Again?
part 1

jazzy,

I apologize for my hasty answers. I do not have access to my home computer on which my files are housed and it will be a few days before I can get back to it. On those files are a bunch of research I have done regarding Herod's Temple, why I believe the Presence of God left it and when, why Jesus did not enter the Temple proper [the place where the sacrifices were done], and Solomon's Porch, also known as the court of the gentiles and how all the courts of the Temple and the "Holy Place" within the Temple "proper" are situated. When the NT refers to the "Temple" it means different courts, the Holy Place and the Holy of Holies. It would be like describing your house or apartment. We call it "home", but if you say, I am going to eat at home, you are referring to a specific room, not the entire place where you live. Does that make sense?

Historically, the court of the gentiles [Solomon's Porch] was where people gathered to discuss, where the moneychangers, and offerings were sold. These things would not have been done in the Temple proper or the Holy Place. Most people were not allowed there but the priests. There was a sign placed on the gates of the "Holy Place" warning of immenent death if anyone not authorized entered, especially Romans, Greeks, and Gentiles. According to history, Rome supported or allowed the Jews to put to death anyone who trespassed in the Holy Place.

If you recall, Jesus was hated by the Pharisees and Sadducees. This is why I do not believe Jesus entered the "Holy Place". For what reason? To sacrifice for sin? Biggrin

If Jesus was walking among the people and being accosted and "tested" by the Pharisees, it was not in the Temple proper. It was in Solomon's Porch and the treasury.

Please click on this link to see the layout of Herod's Temple:

http://www.bible-history.com/jewishtempl...Temple.htm

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06-03-2010, 02:25 PM (This post was last modified: 06-03-2010 02:27 PM by sheep wrecked.)
Post: #30
RE: Will Jesus Enter the Eastern Gate For the First Time or, Again?
part 2

The Glory of the Lord departed from Israel because the Ark of the Covenant had been taken away:

1Sa 4:1 ¶ And the word of Samuel came to all Israel. Now Israel went out against the Philistines to battle, and pitched beside Ebenezer: and the Philistines pitched in Aphek.

1Sa 4:2 And the Philistines put themselves in array against Israel: and when they joined battle, Israel was smitten before the Philistines: and they slew of the army in the field about four thousand men.

1Sa 4:3 And when the people were come into the camp, the elders of Israel said, Wherefore hath the LORD smitten us to day before the Philistines? Let us fetch the ark of the covenant of the LORD out of Shiloh unto us, that, when it cometh among us, it may save us out of the hand of our enemies.

1Sa 4:4 So the people sent to Shiloh, that they might bring from thence the ark of the covenant of the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth [between] the cherubims: and the two sons of Eli, Hophni and Phinehas, [were] there with the ark of the covenant of God.

1Sa 4:5 ¶ And when the ark of the covenant of the LORD came into the camp, all Israel shouted with a great shout, so that the earth rang again.

1Sa 4:6 And when the Philistines heard the noise of the shout, they said, What [meaneth] the noise of this great shout in the camp of the Hebrews? And they understood that the ark of the LORD was come into the camp.

1Sa 4:7 And the Philistines were afraid, for they said, God is come into the camp. And they said, Woe unto us! for there hath not been such a thing heretofore.

1Sa 4:8 Woe unto us! who shall deliver us out of the hand of these mighty Gods? these [are] the Gods that smote the Egyptians with all the plagues in the wilderness.

1Sa 4:9 Be strong, and quit yourselves like men, O ye Philistines, that ye be not servants unto the Hebrews, as they have been to you: quit yourselves like men, and fight.

1Sa 4:10 And the Philistines fought, and Israel was smitten, and they fled every man into his tent: and there was a very great slaughter; for there fell of Israel thirty thousand footmen.

1Sa 4:11 And the ark of God was taken; and the two sons of Eli, Hophni and Phinehas, were slain.

1Sa 4:12 ¶ And there ran a man of Benjamin out of the army, and came to Shiloh the same day with his clothes rent, and with earth upon his head.

1Sa 4:13 And when he came, lo, Eli sat upon a seat by the wayside watching: for his heart trembled for the ark of God. And when the man came into the city, and told [it], all the city cried out.

1Sa 4:14 And when Eli heard the noise of the crying, he said, What [meaneth] the noise of this tumult? And the man came in hastily, and told Eli.

1Sa 4:15 Now Eli was ninety and eight years old; and his eyes were dim, that he could not see.

1Sa 4:16 And the man said unto Eli, I [am] he that came out of the army, and I fled to day out of the army. And he said, What is there done, my son?

1Sa 4:17 And the messenger answered and said, Israel is fled before the Philistines, and there hath been also a great slaughter among the people, and thy two sons also, Hophni and Phinehas, are dead, and the ark of God is taken.

1Sa 4:18 And it came to pass, when he made mention of the ark of God, that he fell from off the seat backward by the side of the gate, and his neck brake, and he died: for he was an old man, and heavy. And he had judged Israel forty years.

1Sa 4:19 ¶ And his daughter in law, Phinehas' wife, was with child, [near] to be delivered: and when she heard the tidings that the ark of God was taken, and that her father in law and her husband were dead, she bowed herself and travailed; for her pains came upon her.

1Sa 4:20 And about the time of her death the women that stood by her said unto her, Fear not; for thou hast born a son. But she answered not, neither did she regard [it].

1Sa 4:21 And she named the child Ichabod, saying, The glory is departed from Israel: because the ark of God was taken, and because of her father in law and her husband.

1Sa 4:22 And she said, The glory is departed from Israel: for the ark of God is taken.

Even though the Ark was returned to Israel uner the reign of David, I cannot find any reference that the presence/glory of the Lord returned to the Ark specifically, only to the "House of the Lord" [2 Chron 5]. The Ark is not mentioned again except in Jeremiah, after the destruction of Solomon's Temple.

Jer 3:16 And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit [it]; neither shall [that] be done any more.

===============

Here is a reference by Hosea near the end of the OT:

Hsa 10:1 ¶ Israel [is] an empty vine, he bringeth forth fruit unto himself: according to the multitude of his fruit he hath increased the altars; according to the goodness of his land they have made goodly images.

Hsa 10:2 Their heart is divided; now shall they be found faulty: he shall break down their altars, he shall spoil their images.

Hsa 10:3 ¶ For now they shall say, We have no king, because we feared not the LORD; what then should a king do to us?

Hsa 10:4 They have spoken words, swearing falsely in making a covenant: thus judgment springeth up as hemlock in the furrows of the field.

Hsa 10:5 The inhabitants of Samaria shall fear because of the calves of Bethaven: for the people thereof shall mourn over it, and the priests thereof [that] rejoiced on it, for the glory thereof, because it is departed from it.
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