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Rico Cortes
02-16-2010, 11:07 AM
Post: #61
RE: Rico Cortes
Quote:that's for sure, they get awfully offended if you call the "Christian'.

Yes, and having read some of the writings concerning their reasons, the hate and contempt is certainly in the forefront.

Quote:I think that is an important fact...they do what
they like. I think they feel Judaism is exotic and it's rituals attractive-
which is an absolutely wrong way to follow something. It's all about
"me and what makes me feel good".

Dead on. They pick and choose what they like from both systems, twist, pervert and change what they choose, to make their beliefs fit what they desire and can use to draw others to their beliefs. And yes, the concept that Judaism is something exotic and attractive for that 'hebrew mindset' and Jewish roots...but for some the concept of Jewishness is from them...not Judaism's Jews, because they reject Jews such as yourself as being imposters....can't have lost tribes proving their heritage as Jewish, if you and other Jews are not actually missing.... Slaphead

Quote::
Some are going so far now to say that words were added or changed in
the NT to change the meaning of it. They are out to "convert" Christians
to the Messyantic faith and make no bones about it.

Exactly!!! The idea of the NT being changed is something that will be addressed in the HR FAQS and Myths. There is so much they are deliberately undermining, in order to pull Christians into their beliefs. The more Christians, the more $$$ of the tithe they require..although I suppose it would only be fair to say some really believe what they are doing. 17113

In working on the FAQS and just updating and making sure we are covering the many issues it is unreal the inroads the so called 'fringe' of the Hebrew roots movement have made and impacted the so called mainstream messianic movement, which some call messianic Judaism, and Christianity itself.

From using Christian media to 'Christian' organisations like the Prophecy Club which is a mess anyway, but we see 2house leadership like Brad Scott, Eddie Chumney and Bill Schnoebelen who is a recognised rabbi under 2 house leadership Ed Nydle. He's kept it low profile that he is HR since 1988, having kept his website for 'Christians'. We see it making inroads through homeschooling, which apparently crosses all denominations and beliefs. 6775

I just shake my head that people are so devoid of understanding and so empty spiritually that they grab onto these things like it's a life raft. But it's so filled with holes, they are sinking.
5068

Vic
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3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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02-16-2010, 01:36 PM
Post: #62
RE: Rico Cortes
Do Messyantics ever listen to the hundreds of real Jews who have repeatedly said that non-Jews "playing Jewish dress-up" is offensive?

It reminds me of that repulsive photo of Jeff Weiss's dog with a tallit on its head. http://www.seekgod.ca/mainstreaming.htm

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02-16-2010, 02:03 PM (This post was last modified: 02-16-2010 02:05 PM by SheitlQueen.)
Post: #63
RE: Rico Cortes
(02-16-2010 11:07 AM)Vic Wrote:  Exactly!!! The idea of the NT being changed is something that will be addressed in the HR FAQS and Myths.
If they come across a passage in the NT they cannot make fit into their
beliefs, they simply claim that it has been perverted from the "original
Aramaic" it was written in Swoon Words added, words deleted...anything
to get the passage to support what they believe.
However, I can 100% guarantee you that they would NEVER claim that
any word or passage in the Torah has been added/deleted/changed.

Quote:I just shake my head that people are so devoid of understanding and so empty spiritually that they grab onto these things like it's a life raft.
Yep, like they have to try some identity other than their own to
find fullfiment.
Quote: But it's so filled with holes, they are sinking. 5068
well, maybe we can poke a few more holes and get it
to sink a little faster. Biggrin
(02-16-2010 01:36 PM)YYZ Skinhead Wrote:  Do Messyantics ever listen to the hundreds of real Jews who have repeatedly said that non-Jews "playing Jewish dress-up" is offensive?
Nah, they don't care. They think they are "Hebrews" and are our "brothers".
Ick.
too busy pleasing themselves rather than thinking about what pleases G-d.

Quote:It reminds me of that repulsive photo of Jeff Weiss's dog with a tallit on its head. http://www.seekgod.ca/mainstreaming.htm
How respectful :(
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02-16-2010, 02:15 PM
Post: #64
RE: Rico Cortes
(02-16-2010 01:36 PM)YYZ Skinhead Wrote:  Do Messyantics ever listen to the hundreds of real Jews who have repeatedly said that non-Jews "playing Jewish dress-up" is offensive?

It reminds me of that repulsive photo of Jeff Weiss's dog with a tallit on its head. http://www.seekgod.ca/mainstreaming.htm

Unfortunately .. No People are providing offense because they don't have a clue about what they are going on about, and Weiss is/was leadership. It's disgraceful. Where is just simple respect for others? Gaah Some see the Jewish response as bonus points for persecution, thereby validating what they are doing as 'right'.Sign0095

I have been told in a few emails that there are no Jews outside of messianics, and Judaism doesn't actually exist. Sign0069

Imagine my surprise over that 'fact'. Smilies-34787 Course I was also told I was totally stupid and ignorant for not knowing that. Sign0013

According to one stat, in 2007 there were roughly 13 million Jews and converts to Judaism worldwide. Sign0164 One doesn't even have to agree with Judaism to comprehend that it exists as a world religion. Apparently the facts are not what's important. 7161

I was just rereading my original To Embrace Hebrew Roots series, and thinking about the concept of HR targeting Christians to draw them away.

I was drawn to the quotes about gnosticism.


"...The gnostics feel themselves as Christians and present themselves as such in the young Christian communities. Thus it is a danger of more from inside than from outside..."

""... By way of systematically perverting the doctrines of the Christian faith the Gnostics claimed to possess the true versions of the Gospels, and professed belief in these to the exclusion of all the other..."

And

"... From all this M. Matter concludes that: 1.The Gnostics professed to hold by means of tradition a secret doctrine superior to that contained in the public writings of the apostles. 2. That they did not communicate this doctrine to everyone… 3. That they communicated it by means of emblems and symbols … 4.That in these communications they imitated the rites and trials of the mysteries…" 21."

I think that's where we are at with HR.

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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02-16-2010, 02:27 PM
Post: #65
RE: Rico Cortes
(02-16-2010 02:03 PM)SheitlQueen Wrote:  If they come across a passage in the NT they cannot make fit into their
beliefs, they simply claim that it has been perverted from the "original
Aramaic" it was written in Swoon Words added, words deleted...anything to get the passage to support what they believe.
However, I can 100% guarantee you that they would NEVER claim that
any word or passage in the Torah has been added/deleted/changed.

No kidding. Although they claim original Hebrew or Aramaic manuscripts--depending on circumstances and audiences. They don't claim the Torah has been changed, except when they want to say that Jesus or the apostles quoted the LXX instead of the Masoretic text and those differ. That's aside from them saying no Jew would have spoken or written in Greek....ever... 10241

It's accurate when they want it to be and they include or exclude whatever whenever it suits.


Quote:I just shake my head that people are so devoid of understanding and so empty spiritually that they grab onto these things like it's a life raft.
Yep, like they have to try some identity other than their own to
find fullfiment.
Quote: But it's so filled with holes, they are sinking. [/b] [/color] 5068
well, maybe we can poke a few more holes and get it
to sink a little faster. Biggrin

Mrgreens

Seriously, What's sad is the spiritual destruction of those involved that fall prey to these things. They are caught between 2 belief systems, merging bits of them plus their own inventions.

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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07-08-2010, 03:06 PM
Post: #66
RE: Rico Cortes
Okay, you sinners who have no hope of salvation, listen up! Smile

Rico Cortes says that unless you are a part of Israel ( he quoted a verse from Jeremiah
to prove his point; I'll have to try to look it up later) or Judah you cannot be a part of
the covenant, and if you are not part of the covenant you cannot have salvation.
I guess this is why so many of these Messyantics believe in being "grafted in", or that they are actually
from one of the lost tribes or "miraculously" discover that they are Jews, and it has been hidden from them
for generations.
No covenant, no salvation.

Heard this on the local Messy radio show that I sometimes listen to on my way to work for entertainment.
So you better start shaking that family tree and hope a Jew falls out, LOL.
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07-08-2010, 03:28 PM (This post was last modified: 07-08-2010 03:29 PM by sheep wrecked.)
Post: #67
RE: Rico Cortes
(07-08-2010 03:06 PM)SheitlQueen Wrote:  Okay, you sinners who have no hope of salvation, listen up! Smile

Rico Cortes says that unless you are a part of Israel ( he quoted a verse from Jeremiah
to prove his point; I'll have to try to look it up later) or Judah you cannot be a part of
the covenant, and if you are not part of the covenant you cannot have salvation.
I guess this is why so many of these Messyantics believe in being "grafted in", or that they are actually
from one of the lost tribes or "miraculously" discover that they are Jews, and it has been hidden from them
for generations.
No covenant, no salvation.

Heard this on the local Messy radio show that I sometimes listen to on my way to work for entertainment.
So you better start shaking that family tree and hope a Jew falls out, LOL.

He was probably quoting Jeremiah 31:31,32. A favorite text of HR. They love to change the word "new" to "renewed". shaking head.

The NT shows us what Israel and Judah are in Christ, so if one is an actual Christian, it would take on a different interpretation than having to be born Jewish.

But yeah, if they can convince people they have to be Jewish in order to be in covenant with God then they have the perfect deception. HRers are more interested in shaking family trees than following Christ for sure Swoon

Don't ya just love all the Jewish names they give themselves? When I need a laugh, I just think of Rico's "Kohen of War" nickname and bust out laughing.
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07-08-2010, 04:18 PM (This post was last modified: 07-08-2010 04:22 PM by Rose of Shushan.)
Post: #68
RE: Rico Cortes
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.


I believe those are the Jeremiah verses he referenced.

Many messianics and HR teach that it is a renewed covenant instead of a new one and that is why people must obey Torah .Because they are supposedly in the Sinai covenant still.
And they teach that this renewed covenant is only made with Judah and Israel and thus gentiles will not be saved unless they are grafted into Israel and become Israelites.. I have even had people argue with me that Cornelius(who was a gentile) was not a gentile but an Israelite LOL To those unfamiliar with the NT Cornelius was the man that God sent Peter to visit after the famous vision of the sheet where God shows Peter that neither food nor people are ritually unclean anymore.

People who teach that the New Covenant is made only with the house of Israel and Judah neglect many verses in both NT and OT that show that Jesus and the Covenant he would usher in would be open to both jew and gentile.


Isa 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

In Jeremiah 31 the prophet was addressing Israel and Judah since they had been divided into two kingdoms.He is promising both groups of people that they would return from the captivity(In Babylon) as one people and that God would give them a NEW covenant not like the old.From other Scriptures we can see that this New Covenant would also feature gentiles.Below are a small sample


Amo 9:11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
Amo 9:12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.

Isa 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Isa 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Isa 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Isa 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Isa 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Isa 49:22 Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.

Isa 60:16 Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

Isa 66:19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.


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07-08-2010, 08:17 PM (This post was last modified: 07-08-2010 08:20 PM by SheitlQueen.)
Post: #69
RE: Rico Cortes
"Kohen of war"? How can he call himself that with a straight face?
A self declared Jew, and kohen no less....what a joke.

I have heard Messies call the NT the "renewed covenant" but I guess
it just never occured to me that they think it is actually the "old covenant"
renewed and applied to them. How silly.
"Many messianics and HR teach that it is a renewed covenant instead of a new one and that is why people must obey Torah .Because they are supposedly in the Sinai covenant still.
And they teach that this renewed covenant is only made with Judah and Israel and thus gentiles will not be saved unless they are grafted into Israel and become Israelites.. I have even had people argue with me that Cornelius(who was a gentile) was not a gentile but an Israelite LOL "
Yes, that's what I have heard-only Hebrew/Israelites can be saved. They no longer consider themselves to be "gentiles"
once they become "Hebrews"- because gentiles are pagans and pagans cannot be saved.
It's just plain craziness.
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07-09-2010, 11:37 AM (This post was last modified: 07-09-2010 11:38 AM by sheep wrecked.)
Post: #70
RE: Rico Cortes
(07-08-2010 08:17 PM)SheitlQueen Wrote:  "Kohen of war"? How can he call himself that with a straight face?
A self declared Jew, and kohen no less....what a joke.

I have heard Messies call the NT the "renewed covenant" but I guess
it just never occured to me that they think it is actually the "old covenant"
renewed and applied to them. How silly.

Rico is from Puerto Rico and believes his lineage is of the Jews, which gives him the self proclaimed authority that he is a Levite/Cohen.

I think they believe that the renewed covenant is kind of blend of old and new. So they mix their "christian" side with the Jewish side by dressing Jewish, doing Jewish things, living like Jews, and pretending they are really Jews and VOILA = they are under a renewed covenant which means they are keeping Torah [which is really "Yeshua" and by the guidance of the Ruach HaKodesh]
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