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***Vic*** · 06-08-2010, 02:14 PM

Jazzy re Reiland's book >

Quote:I don't see it that way, it appears to me that he is making Talmud square with Scripture, not Scripture square with Talmud.

Sheep

Quote:Quote: Unfortunately, the third temple, if it is built, will not have anything to do with Jesus Christ [Jesus is the Temple - not built by human hands and as we are in Christ, are also the Temple of the Holy Spirit]. Mr Reiland is simply promoting a lot of conjecture and opinion based in kabbalah and Talmud.

Sheep

Quote:Quote:
He appears to have quite a flavor and appeal of Judaism in his writings, which denies Jesus Christ. You may want to reconsider quoting his books as they are highly off base.

Jazzy>

Quote: Mr. Reiland believes in Jesus and I am primarily interested in his book because of the "Red Heifer Ceremony" that is a picture of The Crucifixion, Ressurection and Ascension of Jesus on the Mount of Olives and that is where the Red Heifer ceremony took place. The ceremony is actually a burnt offering rather than a sacrfice, whereas the "sacrifices" are eaten by the priests, the burnt offerings are more Holy and the entire animal carcasses are burned at the summit of the Mount of Olives at a particular location. What's also important about it is none of the temple articles, the priests or even the temple itself would be acceptable for "cleanness" without purification from the ashes of the Red Heifer.

Jazzy, I have decided to answer this issue here rather than dedicating a thread to Mr Reiland and his book.

It doesn't take much digging to find enough information to remove him as a reliable source. Please here me out on this.

You said you checked the index and didn't find anything that shows he references kabbalah. You didn't respond to my information concerning talmud and kabbalah and the writers of the talmud etc were kabbalists in practice.

But here's the reality. From Mr Reiland's own writings:

Quote: http://robertreilandgmailcom.blogspot.com/

Tuesday, May 20, 2008
BIBLICAL NUMEROLOGY AND ETERNITY
We present a never-before explored number in Biblical numerology – symbolic meanings for numbers stated in Scripture. For example, “three” is the Biblical Number for Divine or Holy.

Nevertheless, the number we discuss is the MOST used, expresses both the LARGEST values and the smallest values of numbers in mathematics and The Universe. What number could be most appropriatly assigned as God’s PRIVATE Number?....

ZERO is God’s PRIVATE Number

...Much more explanation and Biblical applications of Biblical Numerology is presented throughout the book, referenced following:

Robert Reiland: "Jesus and the Third Temple: His Return and the Red Heifer Ceremony"
Why Building the Third Temple in Jerusalem is a Jewish Right and a Christian Imperative!

NO KABBALAH THERE??? Smilies-34791

He's using kabbalah's gematria and calling it Biblical numerology.

Reiland presents his book as having secret never before told information, given to only the initiated. Sign0095

That's gnosticism 101 Jazzy. He isn't the only one who has written about these things. He isn't the only one who has read the Jewish writings and discussed them. They haven't been hidden. They are available to those who are interested in reading them. He states the book is of "vital importance to Christians." Is there a Scripture for that? The Truth of the Scriptures comes from the Scriptures, with understanding freely given by the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:12-16 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

From his promotion of the book: Jesus and the Third Temple The Complete Guide to the Ancient History and Secret Rituals of the Red Heifer Ceremony

Quote: http://yowbooks.com/catalog/humanity/temple/
This book is of vital importance to Christians and Jews who question the urgency of building the Third Temple in Jerusalem. It answers the most critical WHY, WHERE, WHEN and HOW questions by revealing the most important untold secret of the Holy Land. King Solomon’s Temple helped shape Christianity as we know it today...

...There, you will learn ancient secrets that have survived time, cataclysm, conquest and change.Secrets shared only with those deemed worthy to enter the Kodesh Ha-Kodeshim so as to be schooled in the curriculum of the sacred.

...Sharing this ancient secret is an imperative for Christians. This is because our present day understanding of this sacred site is largely based on the limited knowledge of those who once lived and worked outside its walls. Even though they cherished it as the holiest site of their nation, their misperceptions have endured until now.

Everything You Need to Know, From the Days of Moses to the Present

Jesus and the Third Temple is divided into seven parts. The first three parts are devoted primarily to tracing from that first appearance of Shekhinah - The Divine Presence - who appeared to Moses and The Jewish People as a "pillar of cloud by day" and as a "pillar of fire by night" - to the miracles and Glorious Events in the Second Temple, and finally, a Glorious Departure of Shekhinah into Heaven.

....692 Pages Packed with Long Withheld, Secret Knowlege...4 Indices - Alphabetical, Scripture, Talmud and Midrash

The remaining four parts interpret the cryptic meanings of the Red Heifer ceremony, Judaism's most important Temple rite and it must be performed prior to His arrival! When He does arrive, He will restore a Temple to be built on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. It will be "The Third Temple" - Messiah's "Headquarters" for His rule of all the nations of the Earth.

A time when all of Earth will be restored to peace and will have been returned to that same condition that Earth enjoyed at The Creation. There will be no war, no crime, no disease, no disasters, no injustice - no suffering of any kind!

Everything you need to know Jazzy? What about abiding the Scriptures? The last 2 paragraphs quoted are fully in respect of Judaism's expectation of A messiah, not Jesus Christ, and they believe it will be the same earth, just fixed up. That is not what Christians see stated in the Scriptures of the NT. A New Heaven and a NEW Earth; things won't be returned to original creation, and those in Christ are made new in Him.

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

The ceremonies to be done by the priests were written about in the law of Moses given by God and recorded in the Scriptures, including reference to the red heifer. [Numbers 19] Any ceremonies beyond what is stated in the Scriptures is adding to what God commanded to be done. It wasn't a secret ceremony. It was specifically commanded by God in detail in the OT.. What more, as a Christian, do we need to know in order to understand that under the New Covenant, those things have been done away with. Jesus was the final sacrifice. Reiland is trying to make the Jewish writings, written with understanding of rejection of Jesus Christ, to mean something about Christ. It doesn't work that way.

Hebrews 8:1-9 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2. A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man. 3. For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. 4. For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: 5. Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. 6. But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9. Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Heb 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

Heb 9:6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
Heb 9:7 [But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
Heb 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
Heb 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Hebrews 9:18-28 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. 19. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20. Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. 21. Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. 22. And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. 23. It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24. For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 25. Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26. For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28. So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Hebrews 10:1-6 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6. In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

Hebrews 10:8-14 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9. Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12. But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13. From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Hebrews 13:9-16 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. 10. We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. 11. For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. 12. Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. 13. Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. 14. For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come. 15. By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name. 16. But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.[/color]

More on this in a bit.

Mary · 06-08-2010, 06:54 PM

Thanks for your post #41 Vic. It brought things back to a meaningful discussion and one I could understand. I confess to being very confused by this thread, and haven't been able to follow it on a daily basis, as I have been away. While away I read Psalm 122, and I wondered if it has any relevance to the discussion?

I was glad when they said unto me, Let us go into the house of the LORD.
Our feet shall stand within thy gates, O Jerusalem.
Jerusalem is builded as a city that is compact together:
Whither the tribes go up, the tribes of the LORD, unto the testimony of Israel, to give thanks unto the name of the LORD.
For there are set thrones of judgment, the thrones of the house of David.
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.
Peace be within thy walls, and prosperity within thy palaces.
For my brethren and companions' sakes, I will now say, Peace be within thee.
Because of the house of the LORD our God I will seek thy good.

Rose of Shushan · 06-08-2010, 11:18 PM

Mary reading that Psalm I am reminded how earthly Jerusalem was a shadow of the eternal reality which is spiritual.

Joh 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Joh 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

Paul wrote the following and likened the earthly Jerusalem to Hagar(verses 24 and 25) and one in bondage.Notice he refers to the Jerusalem that is above ie the heavenly Jerusalem in verse 26.

Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Notice in the following verses that what Abraham,Isaac and Jacob also looked forward to a heavenly city

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Heb 11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Mary · 06-08-2010, 11:41 PM

(06-08-2010 11:18 PM)Rose of Shushan Wrote: Mary reading that Psalm I am reminded how earthly Jerusalem was a shadow of the eternal reality which is spiritual.

Joh 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Joh 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

Paul wrote the following and likened the earthly Jerusalem to Hagar(verses 24 and 25) and one in bondage.Notice he refers to the Jerusalem that is above ie the heavenly Jerusalem in verse 26.

Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Notice in the following verses that what Abraham,Isaac and Jacob also looked forward to a heavenly city

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Heb 11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Thanks Rose. and maybe if my grasping of it is in the right direction, this may be where Jazzy is erring with regard to the "millenium" - she is seeking a "country"?

Rose of Shushan · (This post was last modified: 06-08-2010 11:53 PM by Rose of Shushan.)

Quote:Thanks Rose. and maybe if my grasping of it is in the right direction, this may be where Jazzy is erring with regard to the "millenium" - she is seeking a "country"?

Well I cannot claim to speak for Jazzy,especially as his/her responses have been less than jazzy lately Biggrin

so not sure where theyre at really.
But those that look to a "millenium" wih a Temple and sacrifices seem to have been looking at the earthly country and forgetting the eternal heavenly one.
Or as the verse in Galatians refers to

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

they are still focusing on an earthly Jerusalem,with the sacrifices and laws pertaining to the Old Covenant which gendereth to bondage and not to the eternal Jerusalem from above.

jazzy · (This post was last modified: 06-10-2010 03:40 PM by jazzy.)

(06-08-2010 11:41 PM)Mary Wrote: Thanks Rose. and maybe if my grasping of it is in the right direction, this may be where Jazzy is erring with regard to the "millenium" - she is seeking a "country"?

Ezekiel's temple has a location in Israel. where do you think God's Kingdom will be set up? Millenium is a word that has been coined for "God's Kingdom" since it will be the 1,000 year reign of Jesus on earth.

The temple Ezekiel saw is located between the tribes of Judah and Benjamin and that corresponds with Shechem where Joshua set up the Tabernacle after Israel came into the Promised Land.. Ez.45:7-8, 48:21,22

Mary · 07-11-2010, 05:04 PM

(05-17-2009 02:25 PM)Vic Wrote: Many believe that during the time of the First Temple the Eastern Gate, which is also called Shushan or HaKohan gate, was the main entrance into the Temple area. Many believe that it was the gate that Jesus entered on donkey in His triumphal entry.

Matthew 21:2-11 Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an a-s-s tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me. 3. And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them. 4. All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, 5. Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an a-s-s, and a colt the foal of an a-s-s. 6. And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them, 7. And brought the a-s-s, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon. 8. And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees, and strawed them in the way. 9. And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest. 10. And when he was come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying, Who is this? 11. And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee. **a-s-s is spelled this way due to spam prevention-otherwise it will be blocked out with ****.

If one were to stand on the Mount of Olives he could look over this Eastern Gate into the huge area presently north of the Dome of the Rock and see all the gates (at different levels) in a perfect line: the East Gate --Outer Court Gate --Inner Court Gate --Temple Entrance.

According to prophecy the Messiah would enter Jerusalem from the east. The eastern gate holds a special holiness for Jews, who believe that the Sheckinah or Divine Presence used to appear through this gate and will appear again In the meantime it is believed it must be left untouched.

The Arab Muslims call this gate The Mercy Gate and according to the Koran, the just will pass through this gate on the Day of Judgment.

This eastern gate is the only one of the eight gates in Jerusalem that is sealed. The Arabs believe that because the Jews expect their Messiah to come through this gate, they would prevent any possibility of His return. It was sealed up in 1530 AD, by the Ottoman Turks. A cemetary was planted in front of it, with the thinking being that the Jewish Messiah could not set foot into a cemetary, and therefore wouldn't arrive.

Many believe that the gate was shut to prevent the entrance of the Messiah as foretold by Old Testament Prophecies. However, we see that Ezekeiel prophecied the shutting of the gate around 600 BC

Ezekiel 44:1-3 Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut. 2. Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut. 3. It is for the prince; the prince, he shall sit in it to eat bread before the LORD; he shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate, and shall go out by the way of the same.

It is believed by some that Jesus entered Jerusalem through the East gate around 30 A.D.as He came down from the Mount of Olives and entered the temple according to Luke 19:28-48. The belief is that He would have entered through the original gate in the wall which was destroyed with the city by the Romans in 70 A.D. Ezekiel speaks of the closed gate that the "Prince", which is another name for the Messiah in the Old Testament and New Testament, entered. We know Jesus is the prophesied Messiah

Since Jesus is the prophesied Messiah, and fulfillment of Messianic prophecies, has He already entered through the gate? and did He come out again through that gate to be crucified?

Will He ever go through that sealed gate again?

From what I can see in Ezekiel, in chapter 40, he sees the vision of the man who has the appearance of brass begin to measure out the "building".
Verse 6: Then came he unto the gate which looketh toward the east, and went up the stairs thereof, and measured the threshold of the gate, which was one reed broad; and the other threshold of the gate, which was one reed broad.
from verse 6 - 16 he describes the gate and the building to each side of it.
So in the vision Ezekiel and the man looking like brass go in through the east gate.
verse 17:Then brought he me into the outward court, and, lo, there were chambers, and a pavement made for the court round about: thirty chambers were upon the pavement.
Then he measures and describes from south to north, an the porch, and includes the tables for sacrifices.
Chapter 41 describes the Temple and the sanctuary.
chapter 42 descibes the upper court and then the area "round about" the east, south, and north gates and the west side. And the measuring is complete.

Then chapter 43 vs 1: Afterward he brought me to the gate, even the gate that looketh toward the east:
And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory.

vs3: And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.
vs 4 -9
So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house.
And I heard him speaking unto me out of the house; and the man stood by me.
And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.
In their setting of their threshold by my thresholds, and their post by my posts, and the wall between me and them, they have even defiled my holy name by their abominations that they have committed: wherefore I have consumed them in mine anger.
Now let them put away their whoredom, and the carcases of their kings, far from me, and I will dwell in the midst of them for ever.

9-26 The Lord asks for sacrifices from Israel

26 -27 Seven days shall they purge the altar and purify it; and they shall consecrate themselves.
And when these days are expired, it shall be, that upon the eighth day, and so forward, the priests shall make your burnt offerings upon the altar,
and your peace offerings; and I will accept you, saith the Lord GOD.

chapter 44 vs 1:
Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut.
Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut.

In the vision, the gate is shut after the glory of the Lord, The God of Israel, entered the Temple.

So what can we understand of this?

sheep wrecked · (This post was last modified: 07-11-2010 05:45 PM by sheep wrecked.)

(07-11-2010 05:04 PM)Mary Wrote: From what I can see in Ezekiel, in chapter 40, he sees the vision of the man who has the appearance of brass begin to measure out the "building".
Verse 6: Then came he unto the gate which looketh toward the east, and went up the stairs thereof, and measured the threshold of the gate, which was one reed broad; and the other threshold of the gate, which was one reed broad.
from verse 6 - 16 he describes the gate and the building to each side of it.
So in the vision Ezekiel and the man looking like brass go in through the east gate.
verse 17:Then brought he me into the outward court, and, lo, there were chambers, and a pavement made for the court round about: thirty chambers were upon the pavement.
Then he measures and describes from south to north, an the porch, and includes the tables for sacrifices.
Chapter 41 describes the Temple and the sanctuary.
chapter 42 descibes the upper court and then the area "round about" the east, south, and north gates and the west side. And the measuring is complete.

Then chapter 43 vs 1: Afterward he brought me to the gate, even the gate that looketh toward the east:
And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory.

vs3: And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.
vs 4 -9
So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house.
And I heard him speaking unto me out of the house; and the man stood by me.
And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.
In their setting of their threshold by my thresholds, and their post by my posts, and the wall between me and them, they have even defiled my holy name by their abominations that they have committed: wherefore I have consumed them in mine anger.
Now let them put away their whoredom, and the carcases of their kings, far from me, and I will dwell in the midst of them for ever.

9-26 The Lord asks for sacrifices from Israel

26 -27 Seven days shall they purge the altar and purify it; and they shall consecrate themselves.
And when these days are expired, it shall be, that upon the eighth day, and so forward, the priests shall make your burnt offerings upon the altar,
and your peace offerings; and I will accept you, saith the Lord GOD.

chapter 44 vs 1:
Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut.
Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut.

In the vision, the gate is shut after the glory of the Lord, The God of Israel, entered the Temple.

So what can we understand of this?

Jesus fulfilled that passage Biggrin

Joh 2:18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
Joh 2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
Mat 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Mary · 07-12-2010, 05:21 AM

(07-11-2010 05:33 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:
(07-11-2010 05:04 PM)Mary Wrote: From what I can see in Ezekiel, in chapter 40, he sees the vision of the man who has the appearance of brass begin to measure out the "building".
Verse 6: Then came he unto the gate which looketh toward the east, and went up the stairs thereof, and measured the threshold of the gate, which was one reed broad; and the other threshold of the gate, which was one reed broad.
from verse 6 - 16 he describes the gate and the building to each side of it.
So in the vision Ezekiel and the man looking like brass go in through the east gate.
verse 17:Then brought he me into the outward court, and, lo, there were chambers, and a pavement made for the court round about: thirty chambers were upon the pavement.
Then he measures and describes from south to north, an the porch, and includes the tables for sacrifices.
Chapter 41 describes the Temple and the sanctuary.
chapter 42 descibes the upper court and then the area "round about" the east, south, and north gates and the west side. And the measuring is complete.

Then chapter 43 vs 1: Afterward he brought me to the gate, even the gate that looketh toward the east:
And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory.

vs3: And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.
vs 4 -9
So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house.
And I heard him speaking unto me out of the house; and the man stood by me.
And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.
In their setting of their threshold by my thresholds, and their post by my posts, and the wall between me and them, they have even defiled my holy name by their abominations that they have committed: wherefore I have consumed them in mine anger.
Now let them put away their whoredom, and the carcases of their kings, far from me, and I will dwell in the midst of them for ever.

9-26 The Lord asks for sacrifices from Israel

26 -27 Seven days shall they purge the altar and purify it; and they shall consecrate themselves.
And when these days are expired, it shall be, that upon the eighth day, and so forward, the priests shall make your burnt offerings upon the altar,
and your peace offerings; and I will accept you, saith the Lord GOD.

chapter 44 vs 1:
Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut.
Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut.

In the vision, the gate is shut after the glory of the Lord, The God of Israel, entered the Temple.

So what can we understand of this?

Jesus fulfilled that passage

Joh 2:18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
Joh 2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.
Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
Mat 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Thanks Sheep, but I don't really get how if Jesus fulfilled these verses what the significance of the precise measurements is, nor the listing of the contents of the temple, nor the request for sacrifices?

Rose of Shushan · (This post was last modified: 07-12-2010 08:58 AM by Rose of Shushan.)

Although from a different prophet ,ie Isaiah and not Ezekiel I am remimded of

Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

What did Jesus say in reference to this verse?

Mat 21:12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
Mat 21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
and

Mar 11:15 And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;
Mar 11:16 And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple.
Mar 11:17 And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Mar 11:18 And the scribes and chief priests heard it, and sought how they might destroy him: for they feared him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine.

It seems that many plans that God had for His people in the OT were thwarted by the people themselves and not carried out.Promises and prophecies also depended on the people being obedient and obeying God's commandments.
While a lot of Ezekiel is visions and thus may have spiritual as opposed to literal fulfilments let us say for arguments sake that they were physical.And if the people disregard or disobey God's instructions given back then as they did with the House of Prayer for all nations is God meant to put all plans on hold and just wait for the people to obey? Somehow I don't think so.

Psa 81:10 I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt: open thy mouth wide, and I will fill it.
Psa 81:11 But my people would not hearken to my voice; and Israel would none of me.
Psa 81:12 So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their own counsels.
Psa 81:13 Oh that my people had hearkened unto me, and Israel had walked in my ways!
Psa 81:14 I should soon have subdued their enemies, and turned my hand against their adversaries.
Psa 81:15 The haters of the LORD should have submitted themselves unto him: but their time should have endured for ever.
Psa 81:16 He should have fed them also with the finest of the wheat: and with honey out of the rock should I have satisfied thee.

Isa 48:17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
Isa 48:18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

Luk 13:6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
Luk 13:7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
Luk 13:8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
Luk 13:9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.